Correct guidon size?

AngelWings · July 31, 2012, 07:38:37 AM

What is the correct guidon size for a squadron guidon? And (if authorized), flight guidons? I have this huge one that makes our current one look weak and unintimidating. I think it is an old Army one, and is 8 feet tall if I am not mistaken. It looks nice, and with some Brasso on the tip and bottom point, it'd look beautiful.

SarDragon · July 31, 2012, 08:15:36 AM

Are you talking about the pole, or the cloth part?

Most poles I've seen/used have been between 90 and 96 inches.

The size of the cloth part is defined in the reg.

Garibaldi · July 31, 2012, 02:01:58 PM

Quote from: AngelWings on July 31, 2012, 07:38:37 AM
What is the correct guidon size for a squadron guidon? And (if authorized), flight guidons? I have this huge one that makes our current one look weak and unintimidating. I think it is an old Army one, and is 8 feet tall if I am not mistaken. It looks nice, and with some Brasso on the tip and bottom point, it'd look beautiful.

That's not a guidon...that's a standard, I think. Guidons are supposed to be smaller.

lordmonar · July 31, 2012, 03:18:45 PM

Guideon flagstaffs should be 8' according to AR 840-10.

Eclipse · July 31, 2012, 04:03:57 PM

There is a standard. See 900-2.

Note the color, material, size, and content(s) are all prescribed. They aren't supposed to be "intimidating".

5) Guidons. Made of ultramarine blue wool bunting or a substitute synthetic material, swallow-tailed, and 1 foot, 8 inches hoist by 2 feet, 3 3/4 inches fly to end of swallowtail. Basic CAP insignia will be centered 8 7/8 inches from fork of swallowtail (see Figure 12). The unit charter number will be placed at the bottom, centered below the triangle. Encampments or special activities may prescribe their own wordage/numbering scheme for the top and bottom of the guidon using the basic CAP emblem as above. Cord and tassels of any color will not be used. Guidons with five digit charter numbers may be used until replacement is required.

AngelWings · July 31, 2012, 06:07:35 PM

I'm refering to the pole.

Thank you Eclipse, that regulation is what I was looking for! I said intimidating because the thing makes our current guidon look small. It's like the Terminator standing next to a poodle.

Garibaldi · July 31, 2012, 06:12:01 PM

Quote from: AngelWings on July 31, 2012, 06:07:35 PM
I'm refering to the pole.

why you gotsta bring heritage into this?

C/2d Lt · August 17, 2012, 06:36:08 PM

Is there regulations on wether or not the guidon is one or two sided.

lordmonar · August 17, 2012, 06:50:49 PM

Normally it is just one sided...for cost reasons.

I don't know if that is in the CAP regs or not.....if you order one from Vanguard it is only one sided.

Extremepredjudice · August 17, 2012, 06:55:08 PM

Quote from: Cadet on August 17, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Is there regulations on wether or not the guidon is one or two sided.

According to AFI84-105, it is two sided. Or has something on both sides, if not two sided.
from the terms section, emphasis mine.

QuoteGuidon—A pennant used by units on ceremonial occasions. Guidons are ultramarine blue wool and
nylon, nylon, or polyester bunting, swallow-tailed, 1 foot 8 inches tall by 2 feet 3 inches wide to end of the
swallowtail, and forked 10 inches. The Air Force yellow American Eagle design appears on the front of
the guidon and on the reverse side as if printed through. Above the design is the designation of the parent
unit; below it is the designation of the squadron. The unit may use authorized abbreviations. When the
number of the squadron and the parent organization are the same, the lower line indicates only the
alphabetical portion of the squadron designation. Numerals and lettering are yellow, from 1 3/4 to 3-1/2
inches tall, and in varying widths. Lettering and numerals appear on both sides of the guidon, reading
from left to right on both sides.

Looking at this image, something is printed on both sides.

Best I can do... All the guidons I have seen have been two sided... YMMV

lordmonar · August 17, 2012, 06:57:41 PM

"as if printed through"

That means it is one sided.....I should have cleared in my statement. The CAP triangle and the letters of your wing and unit should be on both sides...but one side you can read and the other will be a mirror image.

After reading the whole thing....just ignore what I just said.

The Vanguard ones use a special printer that prints through the fabric.

Eclipse · August 17, 2012, 08:00:15 PM

Extreme - that's an AFI, not relevent to CAP.

CAP guidons have their own spec.

SarDragon · August 17, 2012, 08:50:51 PM

A one sided guidon/flag is one piece of cloth with stuff sewn onto both sided, one side reading correctly, the other side reading backwards.

A two sided guidon/flag is two pieces of cloth with the same stuff sewn on each piece, and then attached back to back.

There is no specification for sided-ness in the reg.

a2capt · May 23, 2013, 01:33:07 AM

Searching for Guidon Size Specs, I figured I'd get something on CAPTalk over the regs themselves ...

I got to thinking.. what if I bought fabric, and took the stuff with the specs to a seamstress.. and then I kept thinking.. what if I laser cut the fabric to the right size, and create the triangle / prop with other cut fabric .. and take all that to a seamstress to get it hemmed..

Or .. learn how to use the sewing machine with hemming foot. I've never used a sewing machine before, for more than a few inches when fooling around with my grandmothers setup when she left the room .. and I was a little brat.

a2capt · May 23, 2013, 07:04:33 AM

Okay, it was weighing on my mind .. so I went to the fabric store .. and then broke out the CAD software and CAPR 900-2

..and a little Smoke and Mirrors .. with a little bit of light ..

Cut some letters..

One red three bladed prop ...

A "spinner bulkhead"

Some blue background ...

Presto ..

Now have to figure out how to mount it all.. and put a hem on it.

In theory, the blue portion should be a little bigger, because it would be hemmed, and the other stuff can get sewed on, or Super 77 spray, put two of these back-to-back and sew them together.

Could sew everything down, sew the two blue sides together inside out, then turn the whole thing back inside in again, and seal up the hoist, fold it over to form the tube for the staff, and sew that down, pop a button hole in it on the top and bottom of the tube end to stick an eye through to secure it to the staff.

A "home made flag" could actually look quite decent. (as per that other thread.. ) and I've never done something like this before. Just thought it up this afternoon as I went, and as I posted this.

Eclipse · May 23, 2013, 01:30:56 PM

Quote from: a2capt on May 23, 2013, 07:04:33 AMA "home made flag" could actually look quite decent. (as per that other thread.. )

Yes, if you have specialized machines, including an embroidery machine it "could". Without the proper sewing system it's going to wind
up a crooked, puckered mess.

The average member has neither. The average member goes to Hobby Lobby, buys felt, glues it on, and perpetuates the idea that we are
am amateurish organization. Note, I do not include cadet-created encampment guidons in that statement as in those cases the point is the teamwork
and creativity, not the professional results.

It's also still not printed on both sides as is the norm (if not the spec).

a2capt · May 23, 2013, 01:58:27 PM

Yup, it's not printed on both sides .. because I said make two and sew them together. Or sew stuff back to back with one side being reversed, like the specs say. I've seen both.

Eclipse · May 23, 2013, 02:27:45 PM

Quote from: a2capt on May 23, 2013, 01:58:27 PM
Yup, it's not printed on both sides .. because I said make two and sew them together. Or sew stuff back to back with one side being reversed, like the specs say. I've seen both.

I have too. Neither looks right, and when you start sewing things on both sides, the flag gets too heavy and doesn't hang / fly right, especially if the material isn't correct.