Uniform Supplier of Grey Pants

[Major Carrales]

I am going to give in... I am going to buy the white-grays before this year ends.  I have never owned a set.  (if all goes well, I can have it given to me in pieces for Christmas, or other Holiday, presents)

There has been some consensus here about making a "uniform" selection in gray pants.  Many will note that I have also solicited the names of commanders that are active on CAPTALK.

Here is the deal, let us recommend suppliers of moderately cost high quality suppliers for gray pants.  A few days of recommendation.

Then one of you (since a CADETSTUFF topic of years backs suggested I have some sort of sinister "reputation") can post a timed poll on the top suppliers.

Then we can resolve to see if we can create some "grassroots" uniformity to the white grays by highly recommending these pants to our members.  Ultimately, it will be up to the individual to purchase based on their needs and availability.  But this is the only way I can see to effect change in this matter as was suggested to me in another thread.

So...Google away my friends.  Let's set BLACK FRIDAY as a deadline for the poll choices.

[SarDragon]

Here's what I wear. The color selection doesn't seem to be as good these days, but the lightest shade in the ad is very close to the grade sleeve color.

[RiverAux]

Are you looking for something just for the aviatior shirt uniform or also something that would work for the golf shirt uniform?  The golf shirt uniform is put through a little more stress since it is often used for flying. 

[Major Carrales]

Are you looking for something just for the aviatior shirt uniform or also something that would work for the golf shirt uniform?  The golf shirt uniform is put through a little more stress since it is often used for flying.

That is what we are here to determine.  Ideally, even golf shirt wearers should have the aviator shirt (by logical convention) if a higher degree of formality is needed.  That is, however, only in the most ideal.  Thus, we should be looking for a shade of gray, style and fabric utility that will best accommodate both.

[EMT-83]

For the aviator shirt, I brought an epaulet sleeve to a local men's store and purchased a pair a dress pants similar in color.

For the golf shirt, I ordered a pair of gray uniform pants from Wearguard. The color isn't as close, but I was more concerned with durability.

Honestly, I think that finding a common style and shade of gray is a waste of time. It is contrary to the intent of the uniform design.

[Major Carrales]

Honestly, I think that finding a common style and shade of gray is a waste of time. It is contrary to the intent of the uniform design.

Oh really?  Tell that to those that have been debating the contrary for the past four weeks.

[EMT-83]

I generally don't get involved in uniform debates; I've got much more important things to occupy my time. However, my understanding of the intent of the aviator shirt and golf shirt uniforms was the use of inexpensive, locally obtained pants rather than a single source.

So, again, I think that finding a common style and shade of gray is a waste of time and contrary to the intent of the uniform design.

[Major Carrales]

I find it rather amazing that you claim you know the "intent of the uniform design." 

CAPM 39-1 only says the following...

4-1. General.
Uniforms must be clean, neat and correct in design and specification, fitted properly, pressed, and in good condition (that is not frayed, worn out, torn, faded, patched, and so forth). Uniform items are to be kept zipped, snapped, or buttoned. Shoes are to be shined and in good repair. Metallic insignia, badges and other devices, must also be maintained in the proper luster
and condition. Appropriate civilian outerwear is authorized with these combinations including the light blue windbreaker with the CAP seal embroidered on the right breast and the dark blue flight jacket.


CAPM 39-1 4-2 b.
Aviator Shirt Uniform: The CAP aviator shirt may be worn by senior members regardless of grade. This combination includes gray trouser/slacks/skirt and may be worn for normal duty.

From table 4-1
Commercial dress trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. (No jeans or causal trousers made of cotton or twill fabric.) Front of trouser legs rests on the front of shoe or boot. No bunching at waist or sagging at seat. Trousers must be worn at natural waist.


From Table 4-1
Commercial slacks/trousers in medium gray color, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. Cotton/twill weave trousers are authorized (no jeans).

Now, I see no demand more anything dealing with local availability nor intent.  All is see is an ambiguous guideline.

Hummmm....so now I don't know what to say.  It would seem that the idea of "uniform" color and style is not all that important after all.  Aside from NO JEANS, anything goes (regards to Cole Porter).  However, what harm is there in looking uniform.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Maj Carrales- You are truly a leader, I support you 100%! 

I will talk with folks in my area and submit our suggestion in a couple of days.

[SarDragon]

I find it rather amazing that you claim you know the "intent of the uniform design." 

CAPM 39-1 only says the following...

4-1. General.
Uniforms must be clean, neat and correct in design and specification, fitted properly, pressed, and in good condition (that is not frayed, worn out, torn, faded, patched, and so forth). Uniform items are to be kept zipped, snapped, or buttoned. Shoes are to be shined and in good repair. Metallic insignia, badges and other devices, must also be maintained in the proper luster
and condition. Appropriate civilian outerwear is authorized with these combinations including the light blue windbreaker with the CAP seal embroidered on the right breast and the dark blue flight jacket.


CAPM 39-1 4-2 b.
Aviator Shirt Uniform: The CAP aviator shirt may be worn by senior members regardless of grade. This combination includes gray trouser/slacks/skirt and may be worn for normal duty.

From table 4-1
Commercial dress trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. (No jeans or causal trousers made of cotton or twill fabric.) Front of trouser legs rests on the front of shoe or boot. No bunching at waist or sagging at seat. Trousers must be worn at natural waist.

This is the standard for the blazer unifirm.

From Table 4-1
Commercial slacks/trousers in medium gray color, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. Cotton/twill weave trousers are authorized (no jeans).

Now, I see no demand more anything dealing with local availability nor intent.  All is see is an ambiguous guideline.

The second bolded item is from Table 4-4, and is the standard for the polo/golf shirt uniform. No ambiguity at all.

[ol'fido]

 I mentioned this in another thread but I'll repeat here. You might try whoever supplies the USMA with their gray uniform trousers. Of course you would have to have them leave off the black stripe.

[RiverAux]

The ambiguity lies in what constitutes "medium" gray.  (That and those people who think something with cargo pockets on the side can be considered trousers). 

[cap235629]

The ambiguity lies in what constitutes "medium" gray.  (That and those people who think something with cargo pockets on the side can be considered trousers).

the reg states dress pants with the aviator shirt. Any other style of "trouser" is acceptable with the polo.

Webster defines trouser as:
Pronunciation: \ˈtrau̇-zər\
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of earlier trouse, from Scottish Gaelic triubhas
Date: 1681

pant  —usually used in plural

pant is further defined as:

Function: noun
Etymology: short for pantaloons
Date: 1840

an outer garment covering each leg separately and usually extending from the waist to the ankle —usually used in plural


so it appears the ambiguity is yours with regard to the English language.

If cargo style pants were meant to be excluded I think they would have stated so just as they did for jeans

[billford1]

I have found the best gray slacks from Haggar at JC Penny. They have a medium gray comfort fit slack that looks and feels good. It's as good as I can find without spending a lot more.

[SarDragon]

Yes, they are an excellent deal, though a bit more expensive than Sears. I have some of those in different colors, and I really like them. I will likely get that brand when my current Sears stuff becomes unserviceable. IIRC, they have a grey that is very close to the grade slide color.

[Major Carrales]

This is the standard for the blazer unifirm.

From Figure 4-2. Men’s and Women’s Aviator Shirt with Epaulets (Senior Members Only)

7. Worn with gray trousers/skirts/slacks. Footwear, slacks, trousers, or skirt and accessories are the same as prescribed for the CAP blazer combination.

[redacted] I thought better of it, but it felt good just the same!!!

[SarDragon]

Help me out here. What's your point?

[no sarcasm at all intended]

[Major Carrales]

Help me out here. What's your point?

[no sarcasm at all intended]

My initial point was to seek help in picking the trousers and maybe take a step toward standardization.  Someone along the way mentioned the reg, I looked it up and posted it.  I also drew a conclusion about the necessity to have the white-grays "standardized."

[edited]Thought better of it, again.  This thing called "thinking" is really cutting into my postings.

[SarDragon]

Fair enough.

My intention was to clarify your post that had an incorrect reference to the standard for the polo/golf shirt uniform.

After further perusal of the three tables in the reg (4-1, 4-2, and 4-3), it looks pretty clear to me what the standards for trousers are.

4-1: no dockers, cargo pants, or jeans
4-2: no cargo pants or jeans
4-3: no jeans

YMMV.

[High Speed Low Drag]

In Arkansas, from what I have seen and from I've asked about, everyone wears the same pants / trousers for the polo as they do the whites.  I think that is perfectly acceptable, and I propose for the sake of clarification (as well as lower costs) that perhaps that is what we should pursue. 
Maj C – Is it your intention to prescribe one trouser / pant that is to be used with either the polo or the white & gray?  (I hope)

BTW – I have got an email from another SQ in the wing voicing support for the changes being discussed on the board.  They also mentioned getting more SQs on board and sending up the final proposal submitted here to the Wing CC.  Interestingly enough, it was from someone who has not posted on the thread.  People are watching. 

[High Speed Low Drag]

I talked with my good friend (who is the owner of a large public safety uniform & supply store & distributor for the uniform companies) who advised the best thing to do is to decide on a range of colors (of gray) (based on the standard PANTONE Textile color chart) and then decide on the most cost-effective supplier.  He said to look outside of the public safety uniform suppliers for possibly lower costs.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Bump::::      Some results:

Edward's Garment:    (uniform manufacturer)
M/F Dark Gray, full front pants, Dark Gray  (65% poly, 35% Cotton) $26.60     Catalog page 84
(SAME), pleated - $28.80
M  Heather Gray, full front pants (100% Poly) - $31.60  Catalog Page 87
F   Heather Gray, full front pants (100% Poly) - $36.60

http://edwardsgarment2010.ecatalognow.com/publication/?i=23209 

Still searching.  Looked at several other suppliers, they were all over $50.00 per pair, which defeats our purpose.  Will post more soon.

[Rotorhead]

Bump::::      Some results:

Edward's Garment:    (uniform manufacturer)
M/F Dark Gray, full front pants, Dark Gray  (65% poly, 35% Cotton) $26.60     Catalog page 84
(SAME), pleated - $28.80
M  Heather Gray, full front pants (100% Poly) - $31.60  Catalog Page 87
F   Heather Gray, full front pants (100% Poly) - $36.60

http://edwardsgarment2010.ecatalognow.com/publication/?i=23209 

Still searching.  Looked at several other suppliers, they were all over $50.00 per pair, which defeats our purpose.  Will post more soon.

Yes, it does, especially considering that Wal-Mart offers grey slacks for $12 or so.

[Eclipse]

Yes, it does, especially considering that Wal-Mart offers grey slacks for $12 or so.

Walmart and similar low-cost retail suppliers are unlikely to carry the big-n-tall sizes we will need, and would have no
commitment to CAP to continue production of given style or color of garment.

This would need to be a company geared towards making lower-run and as-needed garments such as a uniform manufacturer.
Anything consumer/retail will not suit the purpose past one season.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I really doubt that Wal-Mart is going to give a toss about CAP.

I think that if the uniform pants are going to look uniform, we still need to look in the realm of public safety.  Yes, they cost more; but they will last much longer than something you get for $12 at Wal-Mart, and when they're pressed and hemmed properly, they might look fairly squared-away.

Also, they might be made in America, something one is unlikely to find at a big-box retailer...

[RickFranz]

Bump::::      Some results:

Edward's Garment:    (uniform manufacturer)
M/F Dark Gray, full front pants, Dark Gray  (65% poly, 35% Cotton) $26.60     Catalog page 84
(SAME), pleated - $28.80
M  Heather Gray, full front pants (100% Poly) - $31.60  Catalog Page 87
F   Heather Gray, full front pants (100% Poly) - $36.60

http://edwardsgarment2010.ecatalognow.com/publication/?i=23209 

Still searching.  Looked at several other suppliers, they were all over $50.00 per pair, which defeats our purpose.  Will post more soon.

The thing I like about this supplier, is that we can get the slacks (male and female) plus they offer a skirt for the females that wish to wear one, all in the same color.  The price is still cheaper the price I paid for the blue slacks I bought from vanguard.

[RiverAux]

Yes, it does, especially considering that Wal-Mart offers grey slacks for $12 or so.

Not in my Wal-Mart.  Was just looking about a week ago and they had nothing in gray. 

[arajca]

Most uniform supply companies use the same shade of gray. Heather grey is nearly identical no matter what uniform shop you get it from, Charcoal grey likewise.

[Hawk200]

Most uniform supply companies use the same shade of gray. Heather grey is nearly identical no matter what uniform shop you get it from, Charcoal grey likewise.

They use a textiles standard. "Heather Gray" in textile color is a single specific color, not a range.

[arajca]

Exactly, so why not use it?

[Hawk200]

Exactly, so why not use it?

Don't see any reason why not. Personally, I'm not in love with any particular shade. All we've got to do is pick one. I'll wear it as necessary.

[IceNine]

We had a discussion with our Wing CC recently about this exact topic.  It's very likely that in a few solar rotations there's going to be an executive order saying these are the official Wing Tactical Trousers, appropriate with the Golf Shirt in any setting that would be appropriate for other utility uniforms.

http://www.bdu.com/F524350020.html

[High Speed Low Drag]

Your wing or nation-wide?  As I mentioned earlier, in our wing, the same gray slacks are used for both polos and whites.

Addtl Info:  Edwards is a uniform supllier - They specialize in organizations such as ours.

Still looking for others.  Unless someone disagrees, I am disregarding any slacks that cost more than $50.00.  What is the general consensus about type material?  Pleated or Flat front?  And what color?  The industry standard are Pantone (C) colors.  If anyone has a Pantone Color Palette that can post some different shades of gray, that would be helpful.

[Hawk200]

What is the general consensus about type material?  Pleated or Flat front?  And what color?

Don't really know much about fabric.

I'd go with a flat front, not pleated. I don't eve really understand the concept of pleated, it seems to be a style with no difference in function.

"Heather Gray" has been mentioned. May as well start with that.

[arajca]

Heather grey, flat front. A blended fabric would probably be best, but most dress uniforms are 100% polyester of some flavor.

[AlphaSigOU]

Let's try and narrow down the spec:

Black low quarters, oxfords or pumps with black socks or neutral/dark blue hose for the ladies who prefer a skirt.

Trousers/skirt/slacks: Heather gray polyester, poly/cotton or poly/wool blend, sourced through a uniform supplier. Flat front.

Belt: AF blue or black web, silver roller buckle and tip.

Shirt: Let's get away from the Van Heusen 'Aviator' shirt (it's just a brand); the shirt I prefer wearing is very similar to AF style in white. Source: http://www.pilotshirts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ROFS (short sleeve). Available in short and long sleeve, takes starch very well. Available in both tapered and relaxed fits. Gray shoulder marks, gray nameplate, ribbons optional.

Service dress jacket: LAPD blue, classic military style four pocket. Let's keep the lapels plain and move the CAP cutouts to the epaulets about midway with hard rank in the usual position. If Ma Blue still has kittens sideways over hard rank, only then would we switch to gray shoulder marks. (The AF does not have a monopoly on rank insignia.) Silver (satin, not bright) finish CAP seal buttons. No officer sleeve braid.

Flight cap: Heather gray polyester with dark blue piping. No distinction between CAP cadet (over 18), NCO, officer or general officer. Also, let's keep the style the same for both men and women. Cadets (over 18) wear grade insignia, senior members wear the SM eagle.

Service cap: Dark blue (LAPD blue) with plain leather visor. Same style as that of the AF. The cap company that supplies the military, Bernard Cap Company - www.bernardcap.com) does offer 'farts and darts' (again, the AF does not own that design) for field grade and general officers. There are other visor designs available if Ma Blue has a conniption. If we want to stay closer to 'heritage' the old Army officer's service cap did not have 'scrambled eggs' on the pinks and greens, so we could spec out a plain leather (not patent leather) visor and chinstrap for all ranks for simplicity.

Alright, my two cents' worth, before taxes take it all away. Discussion, thoughts, bricks, 2x4s?

[wuzafuzz]

Your wing or nation-wide?  As I mentioned earlier, in our wing, the same gray slacks are used for both polos and whites.

Addtl Info:  Edwards is a uniform supllier - They specialize in organizations such as ours.

Still looking for others.  Unless someone disagrees, I am disregarding any slacks that cost more than $50.00.  What is the general consensus about type material?  Pleated or Flat front?  And what color?  The industry standard are Pantone (C) colors.  If anyone has a Pantone Color Palette that can post some different shades of gray, that would be helpful.

Pleats and uniforms don't mix IMHO. Avoid sewn in creases too  :angel:

Which shade of grey do police/guard uniform shops sell?  I think I recall slate grey and nickel grey from my pre-cop security guard days. (Suppliers like Elbeco, Flying Cross, etc)   Might be nice to be able to visit a local uniform shop instead of depending on an online source.  Plus they usually have in house tailoring.

[Angus]

Let's try and narrow down the spec:

Black low quarters, oxfords or pumps with black socks or neutral/dark blue hose for the ladies who prefer a skirt.

Trousers/skirt/slacks: Heather gray polyester, poly/cotton or poly/wool blend, sourced through a uniform supplier. Flat front.

Belt: AF blue or black web, silver roller buckle and tip.

Shirt: Let's get away from the Van Heusen 'Aviator' shirt (it's just a brand); the shirt I prefer wearing is very similar to AF style in white. Source: http://www.pilotshirts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ROFS (short sleeve). Available in short and long sleeve, takes starch very well. Available in both tapered and relaxed fits. Gray shoulder marks, gray nameplate, ribbons optional.

Service dress jacket: LAPD blue, classic military style four pocket. Let's keep the lapels plain and move the CAP cutouts to the epaulets about midway with hard rank in the usual position. If Ma Blue still has kittens sideways over hard rank, only then would we switch to gray shoulder marks. (The AF does not have a monopoly on rank insignia.) Silver (satin, not bright) finish CAP seal buttons. No officer sleeve braid.

Flight cap: Heather gray polyester with dark blue piping. No distinction between CAP cadet (over 18), NCO, officer or general officer. Also, let's keep the style the same for both men and women. Cadets (over 18) wear grade insignia, senior members wear the SM eagle.

Service cap: Dark blue (LAPD blue) with plain leather visor. Same style as that of the AF. The cap company that supplies the military, Bernard Cap Company - www.bernardcap.com) does offer 'farts and darts' (again, the AF does not own that design) for field grade and general officers. There are other visor designs available if Ma Blue has a conniption. If we want to stay closer to 'heritage' the old Army officer's service cap did not have 'scrambled eggs' on the pinks and greens, so we could spec out a plain leather (not patent leather) visor and chinstrap for all ranks for simplicity.

Alright, my two cents' worth, before taxes take it all away. Discussion, thoughts, bricks, 2x4s?

I doubt we'd get that passed.  I'm sure MA Blue would have issues.  For a distinctive why do we have to try and go for the military look which we have now seen has been a problem.  Make it look more business like. Or take what we have and maybe modify it a little bit to work better.

[NC Hokie]

Lets forget about a military-style uniform for now and focus on what we know Ma Blue will allow, which is the white and grey.  Standardize the shirt, slacks, belt, and blazer and then seek approval for a flight cap (to be worn ONLY when the blazer is NOT being worn) to complete the uniform.

Once that is done, suck it up for a year or two and THEN approach Ma Blue about a service coat and service cap to add to the ensemble.

[Gunner C]

Lets forget about a military-style uniform for now and focus on what we know Ma Blue will allow, which is the white and grey.  Standardize the shirt, slacks, belt, and blazer and then seek approval for a flight cap (to be worn ONLY when the blazer is NOT being worn) to complete the uniform.

Once that is done, suck it up for a year or two and THEN approach Ma Blue about a service coat and service cap to add to the ensemble.

That's probably the best way to go.  The AF is apparently pissed and we won't get anything close to what we'd like to have.  One step at a time . . .

[Angus]

Lets forget about a military-style uniform for now and focus on what we know Ma Blue will allow, which is the white and grey.  Standardize the shirt, slacks, belt, and blazer and then seek approval for a flight cap (to be worn ONLY when the blazer is NOT being worn) to complete the uniform.

Once that is done, suck it up for a year or two and THEN approach Ma Blue about a service coat and service cap to add to the ensemble.

The shirt is standardized white aviator.  Its the pants that need to be standardized.

I'd also say let's not worry about a flight cap with the uniform that may be thought of as too much too fast and piss of Ma Blue.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Maj. Caralles started this particular thread along the lines of standardizing the gray pants.  There are other unifrom threads that talk about the whole uniform.  Lets try to decide on what color & type of pants are needed for standardization.

[Major Carrales]

Maj. Caralles started this particular thread along the lines of standardizing the gray pants.  There are other unifrom threads that talk about the whole uniform.  Lets try to decide on what color & type of pants are needed for standardization.

I think we are well past ready for stage 2.  High Speed Low Drag would you honor us with a poll of the available offerings in this thread?

[GroundPounder73]

From what Ive read, the standardized grey cargo pants and polo or even the grey cargos and white aviator shirt sounds like the best option. The cargos are going to stand up better than dress slacks like Hagar's or some other brand and the appearance of the cargo and polo would bring CAP into line with the appearance of numerous other ES, SAR, HS, CD, etc organizations. Ive been involved in various aspects of ES (non-CAP) for several years now and I have seen the transition to cargos and polo shirts becoming the standard. EMS wears them. Fire departments wear them on medical or other non-fire assistance calls. The cargos are much more comfortable than dress slacks and look better and more squared away with the polo or aviator (which is really just a dress shirt with epaulettes and pleated pockets) than the grey slacks do. Also, having read the regs for the greys, I can see nothing that would forbid the wearing of the grey cargos. So...even as a non-CAP member (yet) that would be my vote.

[PA Guy]

^^^

You might take a look at CAPM 39-1 Table 4-3 Line 1.

[Fubar]

You might take a look at CAPM 39-1 Table 4-3 Line 1.

That table applies to the Aviator Shirt uniform and says, "Commercial dress slacks/trousers" which I would interpret to mean no cargo pants.

Table 4-4 line 1, which is for the polo shirt says, "Commercial slacks/trousers" which without the word "dress" could be interpreted to mean cargo pants are OK. It's been interpreted that way by more than a few folks in my wing.

[Hawk200]

That table applies to the Aviator Shirt uniform and says, "Commercial dress slacks/trousers" which I would interpret to mean no cargo pants.

Table 4-4 line 1, which is for the polo shirt says, "Commercial slacks/trousers" which without the word "dress" could be interpreted to mean cargo pants are OK. It's been interpreted that way by more than a few folks in my wing.

Been interpreted the same way here. A lot of folks here wear polos and tactical pants during SAREXs, at least at mission base.

[High Speed Low Drag]

From what Ive read, the standardized grey cargo pants and polo or even the grey cargos and white aviator shirt sounds like the best option. The cargos are going to stand up better than dress slacks like Hagar's or some other brand and the appearance of the cargo and polo would bring CAP into line with the appearance of numerous other ES, SAR, HS, CD, etc organizations. Ive been involved in various aspects of ES (non-CAP) for several years now and I have seen the transition to cargos and polo shirts becoming the standard. EMS wears them. Fire departments wear them on medical or other non-fire assistance calls. The cargos are much more comfortable than dress slacks and look better and more squared away with the polo or aviator (which is really just a dress shirt with epaulettes and pleated pockets) than the grey slacks do. Also, having read the regs for the greys, I can see nothing that would forbid the wearing of the grey cargos. So...even as a non-CAP member (yet) that would be my vote.

We are looking to standardize the gray pants for use with the white aviator shirt, which is the corporate equivalent to the AF Blue shirt/Blue slacks.  Cargo pants have no place in that uniform combo.

Sorry that I have been absent, my wife had to go back in the hosp & I've been busy.  I did have a chance to stop by my friend's uniform store and obtained color information.  Everyone is in favor of non-pleated pants, so all we have to figure out is color.

Here are the color swatches that seemed to be favored.  These are lined up so you can see the differences between them regardless of you screen color settings.



I have also shown how they will look on the current grays.

I recommend variant D for the other uniform proposal (Pictured below)

Maj. Caralles, I would not presume to pre-empt your thread.  I think, with this, a poll would be in order.

[pixelwonk]

Wow. It needs to be said that looks ridiculous.

[FlyingTerp]

Wow. It needs to be said that looks ridiculous.

+1

...thought this discussion was about Grey pants.

[Eclipse]

-2 (There, I've offset those votes).

[High Speed Low Drag]

Wow. It needs to be said that looks ridiculous.

Never claimed to be an expert at photoshop.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Oops - Posted on wrong thread.  Sorry you guys. 

I had posted female variants.  It is on this thread.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9282.new#new

[Earhart1971]

Instructions for Disposal of the most awful CAP Uniform I have ever seen, the Grey slacks.

Take a can of lighter fluid. Place grey slacks in a a Webber Grill, with the Grill removed.

Douse a few ounces of fluid, and light with a kitchen match.

Let burn. Take out the ashes and dispose of in the garbage, clean your grill so you don't get poisoned by noxous polyester residue.

I would rather see an overweight Senior come to a meeting in BLUE JEANS and Polo than the Grey Slacks combo.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Of course you would.  It would give you another chance to be an elitist.  You don't think any fat & fuzzies should be allowed in CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Of course you would.  It would give you another chance to be an elitist.  You don't think any fat & fuzzies should be allowed in CAP.

Gentlemen, let's not engage in flaming, OK?

I personally think the grey slacks look horrible, but I do not believe that anyone should be precluded from volunteering time, talent and (lots of) treasure (Come And Pay), based on facial hair or lack of slimness.

[Earhart1971]

Of course you would.  It would give you another chance to be an elitist.  You don't think any fat & fuzzies should be allowed in CAP.

You don't have a clue as to me and my attitude. Too many CAP Members ignore the weight and wear a Uniform in violation of CAP Regs.

Most the time, I prefer a Polo Shirt, I don't need the uniform to reinforce my ego. I meet the weight standards and I am tired of the Air Force playing with our Corp Uniform because some Senior goes on a Air Force Base and wears a combination they should not be wearing in violation of Wt rules.

Its that simple. Comply with the Regs.

[Eclipse]

...I am tired of the Air Force playing with our Corp Uniform because some Senior goes on a Air Force Base and wears a combination they should not be wearing in violation of Wt rules.

Cite please.

There is absolutely no evidence to back up that this has ever happened, anywhere, or is related to the current situation with the CSU.

[Earhart1971]

...I am tired of the Air Force playing with our Corp Uniform because some Senior goes on a Air Force Base and wears a combination they should not be wearing in violation of Wt rules.

Cite please.

There is absolutely no evidence to back up that this has ever happened, anywhere, or is related to the current situation with the CSU.

Cite what?  Just saw some violations on an Air Force Base last week. CAP members wearing an Air Force Uniform and over the wt requirements.

[Eclipse]

...I am tired of the Air Force playing with our Corp Uniform because some Senior goes on a Air Force Base and wears a combination they should not be wearing in violation of Wt rules.

Cite please.

There is absolutely no evidence to back up that this has ever happened, anywhere, or is related to the current situation with the CSU.

Cite what?  Just saw some violations on an Air Force Base last week. CAP members wearing an Air Force Uniform and over the wt requirements.

Sure, who hasn't - cite anything that says the Air Force makes changes to our corporate uniform because of issues with people wearing the USAF combinations incorrectly.

[RogueLeader]

...I am tired of the Air Force playing with our Corp Uniform because some Senior goes on a Air Force Base and wears a combination they should not be wearing in violation of Wt rules.

Cite please.

There is absolutely no evidence to back up that this has ever happened, anywhere, or is related to the current situation with the CSU.

Cite what?  Just saw some violations on an Air Force Base last week. CAP members wearing an Air Force Uniform and over the wt requirements.

So what did you do about it?  ask what unit they were from?  talk to their Comander?  if you see a mistake, and know that it is wrong; you are compounding the error by not doing what you can do to fix it.  I saw a Lt. Col. with e Company-grade Service Cap.  I told him, in a polite, helpful manner that he was wrong.  I do not know if he fixed it, but i did what I could.

/drift.

[Earhart1971]

What did I do. Nothing. I will tell you why. The Person was high on the food chain. I did not need the hassel.  And it does not matter whether its corp or Air Force Uniform.

There are many violations of the weight standard. Its not isolated.

And those Blue BDUs are another excuse for people to walk around and make CAP look bad.

It's many violations, maybe 20% of membership visible at a function.

All of them need to just forget the military uniform and wear a polo shirt.  I think the one Senior got told to dump the Air Force Uniform. Was seen in jeans and just civilian wear later.

[SarDragon]

And those Blue BDUs are another excuse for people to walk around and make CAP look bad.

Are  you saying that we ought to get rid of BBDUs? What are we supposed to wear for a utility uniform if we can't wear the AF-style uniforms?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

There are many violations of the weight standard. Its not isolated.

And those Blue BDUs are another excuse for people to walk around and make CAP look bad.

It's many violations, maybe 20% of membership visible at a function.

All of them need to just forget the military uniform and wear a polo shirt.  I think the one Senior got told to dump the Air Force Uniform. Was seen in jeans and just civilian wear later.

Some clarifications:

When wearing a non-USAF option, it is impossible for a member to violate H/W standards...because there aren't any.

"Those people" that you refer to with a bit of a gut or fuzz on the face may well be a lot more operationally-inclined than some who have a fresh-out-of-Lackland physique.

What's going to make CAP look worse?  A member who is heavy and/or "fuzzy" for whatever reason who saves a life or someone who can wear the AF-type uniform crisply and perfectly but may not care less about operations (GT, Air Ops, Mission Support, Admin...)?

If you honestly believe that those not falling within your standards of those who should or shouldn't wear the uniform and "just wear a polo shirt," you know the process for taking it up the chain to National.

[RiverAux]

What's going to make CAP look worse?  A member who is heavy and/or "fuzzy" for whatever reason who saves a life or someone who can wear the AF-type uniform crisply and perfectly

Its not necessarily an either/or situation.  Plenty of fat and fuzzy  people that don't know what they're doing just as there are running around in AF-style uniforms. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

My point was that many of the people who don't fit the H/W standards for the Air Force uniform are productive members of CAP...and the reverse is also true.