Uniform Supplier of Grey Pants

[Major Carrales]

I am going to give in... I am going to buy the white-grays before this year ends.  I have never owned a set.  (if all goes well, I can have it given to me in pieces for Christmas, or other Holiday, presents)

There has been some consensus here about making a "uniform" selection in gray pants.  Many will note that I have also solicited the names of commanders that are active on CAPTALK.

Here is the deal, let us recommend suppliers of moderately cost high quality suppliers for gray pants.  A few days of recommendation.

Then one of you (since a CADETSTUFF topic of years backs suggested I have some sort of sinister "reputation") can post a timed poll on the top suppliers.

Then we can resolve to see if we can create some "grassroots" uniformity to the white grays by highly recommending these pants to our members.  Ultimately, it will be up to the individual to purchase based on their needs and availability.  But this is the only way I can see to effect change in this matter as was suggested to me in another thread.

So...Google away my friends.  Let's set BLACK FRIDAY as a deadline for the poll choices.

[SarDragon]

Here's what I wear. The color selection doesn't seem to be as good these days, but the lightest shade in the ad is very close to the grade sleeve color.

[RiverAux]

Are you looking for something just for the aviatior shirt uniform or also something that would work for the golf shirt uniform?  The golf shirt uniform is put through a little more stress since it is often used for flying. 

[Major Carrales]

Are you looking for something just for the aviatior shirt uniform or also something that would work for the golf shirt uniform?  The golf shirt uniform is put through a little more stress since it is often used for flying.

That is what we are here to determine.  Ideally, even golf shirt wearers should have the aviator shirt (by logical convention) if a higher degree of formality is needed.  That is, however, only in the most ideal.  Thus, we should be looking for a shade of gray, style and fabric utility that will best accommodate both.

[EMT-83]

For the aviator shirt, I brought an epaulet sleeve to a local men's store and purchased a pair a dress pants similar in color.

For the golf shirt, I ordered a pair of gray uniform pants from Wearguard. The color isn't as close, but I was more concerned with durability.

Honestly, I think that finding a common style and shade of gray is a waste of time. It is contrary to the intent of the uniform design.

[Major Carrales]

Honestly, I think that finding a common style and shade of gray is a waste of time. It is contrary to the intent of the uniform design.

Oh really?  Tell that to those that have been debating the contrary for the past four weeks.

[EMT-83]

I generally don't get involved in uniform debates; I've got much more important things to occupy my time. However, my understanding of the intent of the aviator shirt and golf shirt uniforms was the use of inexpensive, locally obtained pants rather than a single source.

So, again, I think that finding a common style and shade of gray is a waste of time and contrary to the intent of the uniform design.

[Major Carrales]

I find it rather amazing that you claim you know the "intent of the uniform design." 

CAPM 39-1 only says the following...

4-1. General.
Uniforms must be clean, neat and correct in design and specification, fitted properly, pressed, and in good condition (that is not frayed, worn out, torn, faded, patched, and so forth). Uniform items are to be kept zipped, snapped, or buttoned. Shoes are to be shined and in good repair. Metallic insignia, badges and other devices, must also be maintained in the proper luster
and condition. Appropriate civilian outerwear is authorized with these combinations including the light blue windbreaker with the CAP seal embroidered on the right breast and the dark blue flight jacket.


CAPM 39-1 4-2 b.
Aviator Shirt Uniform: The CAP aviator shirt may be worn by senior members regardless of grade. This combination includes gray trouser/slacks/skirt and may be worn for normal duty.

From table 4-1
Commercial dress trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. (No jeans or causal trousers made of cotton or twill fabric.) Front of trouser legs rests on the front of shoe or boot. No bunching at waist or sagging at seat. Trousers must be worn at natural waist.


From Table 4-1
Commercial slacks/trousers in medium gray color, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. Cotton/twill weave trousers are authorized (no jeans).

Now, I see no demand more anything dealing with local availability nor intent.  All is see is an ambiguous guideline.

Hummmm....so now I don't know what to say.  It would seem that the idea of "uniform" color and style is not all that important after all.  Aside from NO JEANS, anything goes (regards to Cole Porter).  However, what harm is there in looking uniform.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Maj Carrales- You are truly a leader, I support you 100%! 

I will talk with folks in my area and submit our suggestion in a couple of days.

[SarDragon]

I find it rather amazing that you claim you know the "intent of the uniform design." 

CAPM 39-1 only says the following...

4-1. General.
Uniforms must be clean, neat and correct in design and specification, fitted properly, pressed, and in good condition (that is not frayed, worn out, torn, faded, patched, and so forth). Uniform items are to be kept zipped, snapped, or buttoned. Shoes are to be shined and in good repair. Metallic insignia, badges and other devices, must also be maintained in the proper luster
and condition. Appropriate civilian outerwear is authorized with these combinations including the light blue windbreaker with the CAP seal embroidered on the right breast and the dark blue flight jacket.


CAPM 39-1 4-2 b.
Aviator Shirt Uniform: The CAP aviator shirt may be worn by senior members regardless of grade. This combination includes gray trouser/slacks/skirt and may be worn for normal duty.

From table 4-1
Commercial dress trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. (No jeans or causal trousers made of cotton or twill fabric.) Front of trouser legs rests on the front of shoe or boot. No bunching at waist or sagging at seat. Trousers must be worn at natural waist.

This is the standard for the blazer unifirm.

From Table 4-1
Commercial slacks/trousers in medium gray color, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. Cotton/twill weave trousers are authorized (no jeans).

Now, I see no demand more anything dealing with local availability nor intent.  All is see is an ambiguous guideline.

The second bolded item is from Table 4-4, and is the standard for the polo/golf shirt uniform. No ambiguity at all.

[ol'fido]

 I mentioned this in another thread but I'll repeat here. You might try whoever supplies the USMA with their gray uniform trousers. Of course you would have to have them leave off the black stripe.

[RiverAux]

The ambiguity lies in what constitutes "medium" gray.  (That and those people who think something with cargo pockets on the side can be considered trousers). 

[cap235629]

The ambiguity lies in what constitutes "medium" gray.  (That and those people who think something with cargo pockets on the side can be considered trousers).

the reg states dress pants with the aviator shirt. Any other style of "trouser" is acceptable with the polo.

Webster defines trouser as:
Pronunciation: \ˈtrau̇-zər\
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of earlier trouse, from Scottish Gaelic triubhas
Date: 1681

pant  —usually used in plural

pant is further defined as:

Function: noun
Etymology: short for pantaloons
Date: 1840

an outer garment covering each leg separately and usually extending from the waist to the ankle —usually used in plural


so it appears the ambiguity is yours with regard to the English language.

If cargo style pants were meant to be excluded I think they would have stated so just as they did for jeans

[billford1]

I have found the best gray slacks from Haggar at JC Penny. They have a medium gray comfort fit slack that looks and feels good. It's as good as I can find without spending a lot more.

[SarDragon]

Yes, they are an excellent deal, though a bit more expensive than Sears. I have some of those in different colors, and I really like them. I will likely get that brand when my current Sears stuff becomes unserviceable. IIRC, they have a grey that is very close to the grade slide color.

[Major Carrales]

This is the standard for the blazer unifirm.

From Figure 4-2. Men’s and Women’s Aviator Shirt with Epaulets (Senior Members Only)

7. Worn with gray trousers/skirts/slacks. Footwear, slacks, trousers, or skirt and accessories are the same as prescribed for the CAP blazer combination.

[redacted] I thought better of it, but it felt good just the same!!!

[SarDragon]

Help me out here. What's your point?

[no sarcasm at all intended]

[Major Carrales]

Help me out here. What's your point?

[no sarcasm at all intended]

My initial point was to seek help in picking the trousers and maybe take a step toward standardization.  Someone along the way mentioned the reg, I looked it up and posted it.  I also drew a conclusion about the necessity to have the white-grays "standardized."

[edited]Thought better of it, again.  This thing called "thinking" is really cutting into my postings.

[SarDragon]

Fair enough.

My intention was to clarify your post that had an incorrect reference to the standard for the polo/golf shirt uniform.

After further perusal of the three tables in the reg (4-1, 4-2, and 4-3), it looks pretty clear to me what the standards for trousers are.

4-1: no dockers, cargo pants, or jeans
4-2: no cargo pants or jeans
4-3: no jeans

YMMV.

[High Speed Low Drag]

In Arkansas, from what I have seen and from I've asked about, everyone wears the same pants / trousers for the polo as they do the whites.  I think that is perfectly acceptable, and I propose for the sake of clarification (as well as lower costs) that perhaps that is what we should pursue. 
Maj C – Is it your intention to prescribe one trouser / pant that is to be used with either the polo or the white & gray?  (I hope)

BTW – I have got an email from another SQ in the wing voicing support for the changes being discussed on the board.  They also mentioned getting more SQs on board and sending up the final proposal submitted here to the Wing CC.  Interestingly enough, it was from someone who has not posted on the thread.  People are watching.