ABU - Images of CAP Patch/Rank Color Possibilities on ABUs

[SarDragon]

Nice simulated pictures :clap:

The issue even with the current BDU as well as the proposal for the ABU including the color of the CAP type insiginias, makes it's very difficult to differentiate CAP senior members from real military members at  relatively short distances.

Perhaps a bright red outline with current blue with white lettering for Civil Air Patrol, or even some international bright orange color "Civil Air Patrol" on the uniform. As far as rank colors goes, as you know USAF wanted to ensure that CAP rank would be differentiated from "real" military officers so that's why you have the current rank colors on blue background. 

CAP missions require our members to be seen/visible and are not the same missions as military forces that during potential battles/attacks need appropriate camoflauge that this ABU provides.   

Even as CAP continues it's quest for branding & public recognition, uniform differentiation from typical military uniforms (especially BDU's/ABU's) may be something worthy to explore.
RM   

No freakin' way! Check out the new Bank of America signage, if you have any in your area, and you'll see why. Red directly against blue is a horrible combination, particularly with the colors we already use!

This isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I still think it's a bad idea.

[Spike]

As far as rank colors goes, as you know USAF wanted to ensure that CAP rank would be differentiated from "real" military officers so that's why you have the current rank colors on blue background. 

Good assumption, but not correct.  We have the current colors because CAP mirrored the Air Force.  At one time the Air Force had ultramarine blue junk like us.  They changed, but for some odd reason CAP did not. 

As far as changing insignia colors, it will never happen since Vanguard can charge us more for our unique color scheme. 

[Hawk200]

As far as changing insignia colors, it will never happen since Vanguard can charge us more for our unique color scheme.

That will only continue up to the point where Vanguard will spend more acquiring UM blue fabric than they can reasonably charge to sell a completed insignia.

Then they'll notice a big drop in people buying it, because people will go to other places to get it.

At that point, Vanguard will push something cheaper for them, but has maximum "resell" value so that they continue to make money on it.

Vanguard's mistake is the same one that many corporations are making. They think that they have to make a profit on each individual item they sell.

Many corporations have learned that you charge high dollar for the major things, and take a loss on little things that aren't going to really affect the gross income much. Vanguard can do this. They're too greedy to do so, though.

[Johnny Yuma]

The more I read, the more I'm convinced CAP should go all Blue BDU's and call it good. Full color insignia on subdued combat uniforms looks stupid anyway.

[MIKE]

Might as well forget about ABUs and start thinking MultiCam.

[Hawk200]

Might as well forget about ABUs and start thinking MultiCam.

I wouldn't bother thinking about those yet. All those ABUs are out there, they've got to go somewhere. No reason for us to think about Multicam at all.

[sfdefender]

CAP should step up and adopt multicam first, that way the DOD will start copying us for once!

[SJFedor]

CAP should step up and adopt multicam first, that way the DOD will start copying us for once!

...why? What mission-related purpose would it serve?

[heliodoc]

Now how would CAP be able to introduce multicam first?

What pot of money and three bid contracts does CAP have with the uni manufacturers?

DoD copying us first??  Really?

[Stonewall]

Borrowed this from CadetStuff...let's see if this gets anyone's panties in a wad   

[Hawk200]

Borrowed this from CadetStuff...let's see if this gets anyone's panties in a wad   

Putting the "No way in Hades do we need to adopt Multicam now!" aside, there's a few things.

1. We don't even need a flag. Wearing an insignia just to wear it is unecessary, don't do it for just place filler. Even if it was absolutely necessary, use a left hand flag(wearing it on the left arm, of course). Flightsuit flag stock could be used.

2. Why have a nameplate? Why not separate name and branch tapes, just like we have now? Most ACU style clothing is already configured in that manner.

3. On the senior version, why have a rank square with "CAP" on it, and have rank and "CAP" on a cloth namplate? It would certainly be Department of Redundancy Department Redundancy requirements approved. On the same note, why cadet rank on the nametag when there's already a rank square?

4. Why have "OPS ID" tags anyway?

5. Why "OPS ID" tags for only cadets?

6. Medical staff? Big "Huh?" there.

7. Wing patch? Why? Didn't we eliminate those things to eliminate the 52 little CAP's?

8. Why bother with any subdued insignia at all when others are vivid?

Seems like someone was just showing off Photoshop skills, rather than proposing a suitable design.

[MIKE]

I like tapes better than the ASNP.  JMHO.  It just says CAP everywhere instead of CIVIL AIR PATROL.  Maybe ok for a Gore-tex parka, but not a shirt.

[Cherokeepilot]

Hi guys, it looks like we're an hour late and a dollar short.  The Army has already announced that it will begin fielding MultiCam combat uniforms to units deploying to Afghanistan in the summer. But PEO Soldier released some more specific information the other day on its blog that goes into more details.

The first MultiCam ensembles will go out around July and the first units to get them will be 4th Brigade, 10th Mountain Division at Fort Polk, LA; 1st Brigade, 4th Infantry Division at Fort Carson, CO; and 2nd Brigade, 34th Infantry Division of the Iowa Army National Guard, the Army says.

Now Joes already in country probably won't see MultiCam threads until at least October.
73s

[Stonewall]

Actually many units, Army and Air Force, have been wearing Multicams for a while now.

Here are some pics of troops, mostly Special Operations, wearing Multicams in theater now.


U.S. service members, from Focused Targeting Force, 101st Airborne Division, Forward Operating Base Salerno,
perform an air assault on an objective from the bowels of a CH-47 Chinook helicopter, Feb. 24. Chinook helicopters
are one of the primary air platforms for moving troops and supplies throughout Afghanistan.


3rd SFG(A)


The following pictures are from a 2008 Air Force Article...yes, they're Air Force Security Forces...


A members of a Deployed Aircraft Ground Response Element from the 1st Special Operations
Security Forces Squadron catalog and bag evidence gathered from a simulated high value
target elimination scene during the Emerald Warrior Exercise, Feb. 3. The forensic evidence
collected from the scene could result in the identification of other high value targets.
(Photo by Senior Airman Julianne Showalter : 1st Special Operations Wing Public Affairs)


A member of a Deployed Aircraft Ground Response Element from the 1st Special Operations
Security Forces Squadron surveys the area for threats during a tactical evidence collection
simulation during the Emerald Warrior Exercise, Feb. 3. Collecting forensic evidence from the
scene verifies the elimination targets and provides further intelligence for other high value
targets. (Photo by Senior Airman Julianne Showalter : 1st Special Operations Wing Public Affairs)

-------------------------

Sec. 352 of the 2010 Defense Authorization Bill contains specific verbage forcing each service to provide a report by FY2011 concerning a joint uniform. Multicam would seem to be the most likely pattern if something was to be developed. I think congress is actually on the right track with this.

We'll see in about 8 months, as long as this report can be had under the FOIA.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h2647enr.txt.pdf

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/10/13/camo-and-the-2010-defense-authorization-bill/

[Stonewall]

Of course this was my proposal back in 2007...

[davidsinn]

Of course this was my proposal back in 2007...

Yes please. I'll take three.

[maverik]

Honestly I'd take Stonewall's sharp uniform over ABU's anyday.

[vmstan]

Honestly I'd take Stonewall's sharp uniform over ABU's anyday.

Agreed. I'd take those over just about any other option. ABU, ACU, BDU, etc.

[maverik]

I really like the NESA patch on the right shoulder, I wish we could go back to it lol.

[Nick]

I really like this design ... I would maintain the velcro for the namestrips and the rank, then sell velcro versions of rank insignia for cadet officers/senior members and a velcro blank for cadet enlisted to pin their rank.

As for badges ... I like the Army's approach to it -- pin-on badges in garrison and no badges in field.  The idea behind velcro is to simplify adding/removing stuff, and with the "supply stock" of uniforms that float around CAP, sewing leaves marks.

As for the color pattern -- everyone's right with OD: Nobody uses it and everyone could wear it.  Sure, we'll get confused for the Bolivian or Mexican Army sometimes, but that's what the US flag is for.

And as for wing patches -- yeah, I know it's an optional thing now, but there are quite a few wings that wrote a wing sup the day after the new policy came out to re-establish it as a mandatory item.  Might as well keep it.