ABU - Images of CAP Patch/Rank Color Possibilities on ABUs

[N Harmon]

I'll be happy to work up graphics for any combination that people want to see, HOWEVER, if the USAF types aren't happy about White on Navy Blue, I can imagine them having a stroke over White on OD.  The OD combo being MUCH closer to what the USAF wears on their own ABUs.

It could be helpful to illustrate how it is the white stiching, and not the blue background part of the tapes that makes them stand out in low-light and at a distance. Like, compare a digital or OD tape with white lettering to an ultra marine tape with OD lettering.

[Spike]

Real simple folks.  We will use what we already have in stock.  That will never change. 

[SarDragon]

Here's the best uniform proposal for a CAP utility uniform:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3896.0

It should be put before the NB for a field trial (say two years, limited distribution each wing).  It's the only one that makes sense, unless you can find a solid color USAF equivalent.

At any rate, tape colors, height/weight, etc would be moot.

This is a great uniform. I like it, a lot. My question is - What is the availability, in the quantities that CAP will use in the next X years? Given the size range, and numbers wearing each size, I'd guess that the production quantities would be fairly low, compared to what the AD AF folks might use in the same period of time. (Yes, I know they don't wear that uniform any more. I'm talking just quantities here.)

[Smokey]

Sorry, but there is no way I'm wearing that unless it's with a big red nose and floppy shoes and I'm working for Ringling Bros.

[Gunner C]

Sorry, but there is no way I'm wearing that unless it's with a big red nose and floppy shoes and I'm working for Ringling Bros.

You've gotta be kidding. 

[Thom]

I'll be happy to work up graphics for any combination that people want to see, HOWEVER, if the USAF types aren't happy about White on Navy Blue, I can imagine them having a stroke over White on OD.  The OD combo being MUCH closer to what the USAF wears on their own ABUs.

It could be helpful to illustrate how it is the white stiching, and not the blue background part of the tapes that makes them stand out in low-light and at a distance. Like, compare a digital or OD tape with white lettering to an ultra marine tape with OD lettering.

Ask, and ye shall receive...

These are Quick and Dirty, so...worth every penny you paid for them!



Now, to see if I can go back and edit them into my first post...

Thom Hamilton

[DC]

^ Funny, that's just as visible as the ultramarine in the dark and it doesn't give you a headache to look at in the day...

[PHall]

I'll be happy to work up graphics for any combination that people want to see, HOWEVER, if the USAF types aren't happy about White on Navy Blue, I can imagine them having a stroke over White on OD.  The OD combo being MUCH closer to what the USAF wears on their own ABUs.

It could be helpful to illustrate how it is the white stiching, and not the blue background part of the tapes that makes them stand out in low-light and at a distance. Like, compare a digital or OD tape with white lettering to an ultra marine tape with OD lettering.

Ask, and ye shall receive...

These are Quick and Dirty, so...worth every penny you paid for them!



Now, to see if I can go back and edit them into my first post...

Thom Hamilton

You know, we could just make the name and branch tapes the special CAP color combo and just use the same grade insignia the Air Force uses. No need to have something different just to make Vanguard's wallet any fatter.

[BrandonKea]

Thom: Thanks for the cite, I never knew that was there before.

I like Stonewall's utility idea as is, looks sharp, is distinctive, and not too busy. Send it to the NB!

[jimmydeanno]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

[CadetProgramGuy]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

And you think CAP has uniform issues.....Actually I like the idea of all branches having the same uniform, minus the bling.

[BrandonKea]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Interesting. It makes sense though, for a long time everyone had BDU's with only slight variations on that theme. Not very cost effective at all, and I'm surprised congress didn't see that before...

[citizensoldier]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Nice.  Wasn't that what the BDU did in the first place?

CS

[DC]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Nice.  Wasn't that what the BDU did in the first place?

CS

Yep. IIRC, BDUs came about because McNamara had a fit over all the services having different uniforms in Vietnam...

If it were up to me everyone would transistion to the Marine Corps CUU, it is the most sensible uniform the military is currently wearing, in my opinion.

[Strick]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Nice.  Wasn't that what the BDU did in the first place?

CS

Yep. IIRC, BDUs came about because McNamara had a fit over all the services having different uniforms in Vietnam...

If it were up to me everyone would transistion to the Marine Corps CUU, it is the most sensible uniform the military is currently wearing, in my opinion.

Ithink you are right on the MARINE Uniform. they got it right and it is battle tested and I have heard no complaints from MARINES that I know.

[Thom]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Nice.  Wasn't that what the BDU did in the first place?

CS

Yep. IIRC, BDUs came about because McNamara had a fit over all the services having different uniforms in Vietnam...

If it were up to me everyone would transistion to the Marine Corps CUU, it is the most sensible uniform the military is currently wearing, in my opinion.

Ithink you are right on the MARINE Uniform. they got it right and it is battle tested and I have heard no complaints from MARINES that I know.

That very idea has bounced around every Military Forum at one point or another.  I've even seen proposals that would let each service have their own 'slightly' different fabric, with their symbols replacing the EGA which is repeated in the pattern of the MC CUU.

The latest (until this week...) news had been the submission by SOCOM of a requirement for uniforms in two new color patterns, which looked an AWFUL lot like the MC CUU patterns.

We'll see what happens now, if this even makes it into law.

But, I'll still bet CAP ends up in ABUs in two years, because any mandate like this would take 5 or more years to trickle down fully through the services, then another 2 or 3 years to trickle down to CAP.

Thom Hamilton

[RADIOMAN015]

Nice simulated pictures :clap:

The issue even with the current BDU as well as the proposal for the ABU including the color of the CAP type insiginias, makes it's very difficult to differentiate CAP senior members from real military members at  relatively short distances.

Perhaps a bright red outline with current blue with white lettering for Civil Air Patrol, or even some international bright orange color "Civil Air Patrol" on the uniform.  As far as rank colors goes, as you know USAF wanted to ensure that CAP rank would be differentiated from "real" military officers so that's why you have the current rank colors on blue background. 

CAP missions require our members to be seen/visible and are not the same missions as military forces that during potential battles/attacks need appropriate camoflauge that this ABU provides.   

Even as CAP continues it's quest for branding & public recognition, uniform differentiation from typical military uniforms (especially BDU's/ABU's) may be something worthy to explore.
RM         

[DC]

Nice simulated pictures :clap:

The issue even with the current BDU as well as the proposal for the ABU including the color of the CAP type insiginias, makes it's very difficult to differentiate CAP senior members from real military members at  relatively short distances.

Perhaps a bright red outline with current blue with white lettering for Civil Air Patrol, or even some international bright orange color "Civil Air Patrol" on the uniform.  As far as rank colors goes, as you know USAF wanted to ensure that CAP rank would be differentiated from "real" military officers so that's why you have the current rank colors on blue background. 

CAP missions require our members to be seen/visible and are not the same missions as military forces that during potential battles/attacks need appropriate camoflauge that this ABU provides.   

Even as CAP continues it's quest for branding & public recognition, uniform differentiation from typical military uniforms (especially BDU's/ABU's) may be something worthy to explore.
RM       

You obviously have no desire to go out in public in your uniform, otherwise you might hesitate before putting ridiculous color combinations all over it in the quest of the lofty state of 'High Viz'. The visibility issue has been beat to death, we wear florescent orange, reflective vests when we need to be highly visible, no patch on a uniform is going to do anything to enhance that, so why not choose something that is marginally aesthetically pleasing and doesn't contrast horribly with the uniform it's attached to?

As for 'differentiation' from the Air Force, I for one, believe that we need to forge a closer bond with our military partners, not do everything we can to split away. Keeping a similar uniform is one such way that we can do that. There is also roughly 23,000 people in CAP that are part of a heavily military based leadership and aerospace education program, known in some circles as  'Cadets'. Most that I know would be very displeased to see CAP denigrate into 'SAR Boy Scouts'.

[Thom]

The visibility issue has been beat to death, we wear florescent orange, reflective vests when we need to be highly visible, no patch on a uniform is going to do anything to enhance that, so why not choose something that is marginally aesthetically pleasing and doesn't contrast horribly with the uniform it's attached to?

Ummm, have you SEEN some of the Wing and Unit Patches out there???

Sorry, just wanted to lighten the mood in here on a Friday evening.

Thom Hamilton

[RADIOMAN015]

The visibility issue has been beat to death, we wear florescent orange, reflective vests when we need to be highly visible, no patch on a uniform is going to do anything to enhance that, so why not choose something that is marginally aesthetically pleasing and doesn't contrast horribly with the uniform it's attached to?

Ummm, have you SEEN some of the Wing and Unit Patches out there???

The pictures posted do not show any wing patches attached to the uniform, so it is unclear whether this additional "differentiation" from the real military (at least AF wise) would be on the uniform.
RM