ABU - Images of CAP Patch/Rank Color Possibilities on ABUs

[Thom]

Since the other ABU thread had a fair bit of wrangling about what color our patches should be once CAP (eventually...) moves to the ABUs, I thought I'd whip up some images to show the different options that have been discussed as significant possibilities.

I have 6 sets of images, each of which includes a Daylight image and a Low-Light image, since the criteria for CAP Uniforms includes being able to tell us apart from real Air Force personnel in Low-Light conditions.

There are 3 Uniform combinations shown:  The standard Air Force ABU, the ABU with CAP UltraMarine Blue patches, and the ABU with CAP Navy Blue patches.

I have included 2 different images of each possible combination, to account for the variety of shades and images available in the ABU, as well as to give a little bit of variety.

Where it was possible, I have used actual images (substantially reduced in size) as the elements to compose these images.  That means, the Name Tapes are NOT just a blue rectangle with a text box on top, they are actual images available online that I shrunk.  This means the colors are not perfect, but are pretty close to real life.  If the UltraMarine looks a little subdued here, that is just about the way my brand new tapes from VG and The Hock look to me.  And, the Navy Blue may be a bit oversaturated, I had to make most of those up by hand by coloring the UM Blue images.  Overall, I feel these are relatively representative.  In the real world, production differences and fading will cause things to vary anyway.

The first 2 sets are of the standard Air Force ABU, as worn by real Air Force personnel.





The next 2 sets are of the ABU with CAP UltraMarine Blue patches.





The last 2 sets are of the ABU with CAP Navy Blue patches.





Comments are welcome.

Thom Hamilton

[Eclipse]

Comments are welcome.

There's several threads here where people have done the exact thing you have, others have actually purchased the different colored tapes, and the rest of us beat it into the ground.

Search is your friend.

[RiverAux]

And I think most people went for a much darker shade of Navy blue than what you had, which doesn't look much different than UM. 

[JK657]

On a positive note, although others have already done this, I appreciate you taking the time to work on this project for the good of the rest of us...

[MikeD]

On a positive note, although others have already done this, I appreciate you taking the time to work on this project for the good of the rest of us...

I don't think that anyone else took the low-light issue into account?   Or is search my friend too?

[Thom]

On a positive note, although others have already done this, I appreciate you taking the time to work on this project for the good of the rest of us...

I don't think that anyone else took the low-light issue into account?   Or is search my friend too?

And I thought I was doing good to search back 18 Months!  It seems the thread where someone actually made up nametapes in various color combos and laid them on an ABU Blouse was last touched about 20 months ago.

Note:  I do feel a little inadequate for having only tried 2 CAP color combos, and only doing them digitally instead of making actual tapes.  THAT guy was into this!

As far as I can find now, no one else took the Low-Light issue into account, so at least I think I have that going for me.

Of course, since I spend a decent amount of time in PhotoShop, it actually took me longer to upload and label the images at PhotoBucket than it did to put them together.  I don't feel too bad about the time wasted.

As to the person that said my Navy Blue was a little lighter than others, I tried to go a little light overall to get the 'faded' look rather than the 'fresh from The Hock's Embroidery Shop' look.  These things will have to look 'distinctive' once faded, not just brand new.

Thom Hamilton

[RiverAux]

I think this does an excellent job illustrating that CAP-USAF needs glasses if they thought Navy Blue with white still looked too Air Forcey. 

[AvroArrow]

If I may add, why not try white text over solid OD tape? It's distinctive and be less "obnoxious" as any shade of blue.

[Thom]

If I may add, why not try white text over solid OD tape? It's distinctive and be less "obnoxious" as any shade of blue.

I'll be happy to work up graphics for any combination that people want to see, HOWEVER, if the USAF types aren't happy about White on Navy Blue, I can imagine them having a stroke over White on OD.  The OD combo being MUCH closer to what the USAF wears on their own ABUs.

The other ABU threads cover the issue pretty well, but basically: It isn't just what looks good, but what looks OK and ALSO let's CAP be visually distinctive, in Low-Light and Regular lighting conditions, from the regular USAF personnel.

Honestly, I'm not at all sure what we'll end up with by the time they all make up their minds.

Time will tell...

Thom Hamilton

[AvroArrow]

HOWEVER, if the USAF types aren't happy about White on Navy Blue, I can imagine them having a stroke over White on OD.  The OD combo being MUCH closer to what the USAF wears on their own ABUs.

Perhaps, but if the tape is solid OD, not pixelated, there would still be some difference.

Look at this post:

.....

[RiverAux]

The "low light" thing is nuts also.  When is the military going to see us in "low light conditions".  Most stuff on bases is done during daylight hours, so that isn't an issue.  And usually the CAP adult is surround by numerous cadets that should give them a hint about what is going on.  They don't operate with us in the field except for CAP-USAF folks who shouldn't need the additional visual aid. 

[Strick]

How about dark grey with white threads, I wish we could wear dark gray on the flight suit with white thread.  As we learned in a earlier post our grey slides repersent CAP'S flag.

[BrandonKea]

I honestly think they'll get away from Ultramarine when we eventually transition to ABU's. But, then again, maybe not.

[PHall]

The "low light" thing is nuts also.  When is the military going to see us in "low light conditions".  Most stuff on bases is done during daylight hours, so that isn't an issue.  And usually the CAP adult is surround by numerous cadets that should give them a hint about what is going on.  They don't operate with us in the field except for CAP-USAF folks who shouldn't need the additional visual aid.

It may be nuts, but it's in their regulation. And it's pretty much their call too.

[Thom]

The "low light" thing is nuts also.  When is the military going to see us in "low light conditions".  Most stuff on bases is done during daylight hours, so that isn't an issue.  And usually the CAP adult is surround by numerous cadets that should give them a hint about what is going on.  They don't operate with us in the field except for CAP-USAF folks who shouldn't need the additional visual aid.

It may be nuts, but it's in their regulation. And it's pretty much their call too.

Absolutely, it is entirely the Air Force's call as to what conditions they will put on CAP using the ABUs.

I will point out that, while I can't really explain the Low-Light thing, I can explain where some of the Distinctive requirements can come in, on a regular basis even:  Hurricanes.

Here in Louisiana we've had 4 major storms in 5 years, and after each CAP was out and about alongside EVERY other SAR/LEO/FED/DOD/etc. organization in the country.  It wouldn't have been unusual for an Army National Guardsman (or 10) to be loading supplies onto a Coast Guard helicopter with local Sheriffs representatives directing the whole process.  In that mixed forces environment, it suddenly becomes nice (from the perspective of Ma Blue) to be able to tell the CAP Officer from the real Air Force Officer.

The rest of the time, not such a big deal.

Thom Hamilton

[Smokey]

For those who still love the ultramarine blue......Your home must have advocado appliances, orange shag carpeting and a disco ball in the family room.

The 70's are dead. Get past it.  Ultramarine blue has to go the way of the above.  It must be killed before it puts someone's eye out.

[wuzafuzz]

Does this low light distinctiveness requirement only apply to BDU's?  It seems to me the dress blues would be far less distinctive in low light conditions, and no one is having puppies over those.

I'm not wringing my hands because we don't look just like the real military, complete with subdued patches.  Bright insignia is just fine with me but PLEASE lose the ultramarine background.

[BrandonKea]

Is there a cite for the fact that the uniforms have to be "low light distinctive?"

You're all forgetting the one thing that will make you stand out, at least in the field...

[Gunner C]

Here's the best uniform proposal for a CAP utility uniform:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3896.0

It should be put before the NB for a field trial (say two years, limited distribution each wing).  It's the only one that makes sense, unless you can find a solid color USAF equivalent.

At any rate, tape colors, height/weight, etc would be moot.

[Thom]

Is there a cite for the fact that the uniforms have to be "low light distinctive?"

You're all forgetting the one thing that will make you stand out, at least in the field...

<<Snipped image of Orange Vest>>

Here it is, (emphasis mine) from AFI 10-2701, the USAF document on the Organization and Function of the Civil Air Patrol

1.3.4. CAP Distinctive Uniforms and Insignia. The emblems, insignia, and badges of the CAP Air
Force-style uniform will clearly identify an individual as a CAP member at a distance and in low-light
conditions. The Air Force must approve changes to the CAP Air Force-style uniform. CAP distinctive
uniforms must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces uniforms so that confusion will not
occur.

Also, the Orange Vest is only required when actually participating in Ground Team activities.  Much of the Mission Base and Logistics duties do not require the Vest, and those are definitely places where (as noted before during Hurricane or other Large Disaster/Multi-Agency settings) confusion over CAP vs. USAF could occur.

Thom Hamilton

[N Harmon]

I'll be happy to work up graphics for any combination that people want to see, HOWEVER, if the USAF types aren't happy about White on Navy Blue, I can imagine them having a stroke over White on OD.  The OD combo being MUCH closer to what the USAF wears on their own ABUs.

It could be helpful to illustrate how it is the white stiching, and not the blue background part of the tapes that makes them stand out in low-light and at a distance. Like, compare a digital or OD tape with white lettering to an ultra marine tape with OD lettering.

[Spike]

Real simple folks.  We will use what we already have in stock.  That will never change. 

[SarDragon]

Here's the best uniform proposal for a CAP utility uniform:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3896.0

It should be put before the NB for a field trial (say two years, limited distribution each wing).  It's the only one that makes sense, unless you can find a solid color USAF equivalent.

At any rate, tape colors, height/weight, etc would be moot.

This is a great uniform. I like it, a lot. My question is - What is the availability, in the quantities that CAP will use in the next X years? Given the size range, and numbers wearing each size, I'd guess that the production quantities would be fairly low, compared to what the AD AF folks might use in the same period of time. (Yes, I know they don't wear that uniform any more. I'm talking just quantities here.)

[Smokey]

Sorry, but there is no way I'm wearing that unless it's with a big red nose and floppy shoes and I'm working for Ringling Bros.

[Gunner C]

Sorry, but there is no way I'm wearing that unless it's with a big red nose and floppy shoes and I'm working for Ringling Bros.

You've gotta be kidding. 

[Thom]

I'll be happy to work up graphics for any combination that people want to see, HOWEVER, if the USAF types aren't happy about White on Navy Blue, I can imagine them having a stroke over White on OD.  The OD combo being MUCH closer to what the USAF wears on their own ABUs.

It could be helpful to illustrate how it is the white stiching, and not the blue background part of the tapes that makes them stand out in low-light and at a distance. Like, compare a digital or OD tape with white lettering to an ultra marine tape with OD lettering.

Ask, and ye shall receive...

These are Quick and Dirty, so...worth every penny you paid for them!



Now, to see if I can go back and edit them into my first post...

Thom Hamilton

[DC]

^ Funny, that's just as visible as the ultramarine in the dark and it doesn't give you a headache to look at in the day...

[PHall]

I'll be happy to work up graphics for any combination that people want to see, HOWEVER, if the USAF types aren't happy about White on Navy Blue, I can imagine them having a stroke over White on OD.  The OD combo being MUCH closer to what the USAF wears on their own ABUs.

It could be helpful to illustrate how it is the white stiching, and not the blue background part of the tapes that makes them stand out in low-light and at a distance. Like, compare a digital or OD tape with white lettering to an ultra marine tape with OD lettering.

Ask, and ye shall receive...

These are Quick and Dirty, so...worth every penny you paid for them!



Now, to see if I can go back and edit them into my first post...

Thom Hamilton

You know, we could just make the name and branch tapes the special CAP color combo and just use the same grade insignia the Air Force uses. No need to have something different just to make Vanguard's wallet any fatter.

[BrandonKea]

Thom: Thanks for the cite, I never knew that was there before.

I like Stonewall's utility idea as is, looks sharp, is distinctive, and not too busy. Send it to the NB!

[jimmydeanno]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

[CadetProgramGuy]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

And you think CAP has uniform issues.....Actually I like the idea of all branches having the same uniform, minus the bling.

[BrandonKea]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Interesting. It makes sense though, for a long time everyone had BDU's with only slight variations on that theme. Not very cost effective at all, and I'm surprised congress didn't see that before...

[citizensoldier]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Nice.  Wasn't that what the BDU did in the first place?

CS

[DC]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Nice.  Wasn't that what the BDU did in the first place?

CS

Yep. IIRC, BDUs came about because McNamara had a fit over all the services having different uniforms in Vietnam...

If it were up to me everyone would transistion to the Marine Corps CUU, it is the most sensible uniform the military is currently wearing, in my opinion.

[Strick]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Nice.  Wasn't that what the BDU did in the first place?

CS

Yep. IIRC, BDUs came about because McNamara had a fit over all the services having different uniforms in Vietnam...

If it were up to me everyone would transistion to the Marine Corps CUU, it is the most sensible uniform the military is currently wearing, in my opinion.

Ithink you are right on the MARINE Uniform. they got it right and it is battle tested and I have heard no complaints from MARINES that I know.

[Thom]

Better hold off on the ABU - Congress is getting involved...

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/07/30/congress-proposes-common-ground-combat-uniform/

Nice.  Wasn't that what the BDU did in the first place?

CS

Yep. IIRC, BDUs came about because McNamara had a fit over all the services having different uniforms in Vietnam...

If it were up to me everyone would transistion to the Marine Corps CUU, it is the most sensible uniform the military is currently wearing, in my opinion.

Ithink you are right on the MARINE Uniform. they got it right and it is battle tested and I have heard no complaints from MARINES that I know.

That very idea has bounced around every Military Forum at one point or another.  I've even seen proposals that would let each service have their own 'slightly' different fabric, with their symbols replacing the EGA which is repeated in the pattern of the MC CUU.

The latest (until this week...) news had been the submission by SOCOM of a requirement for uniforms in two new color patterns, which looked an AWFUL lot like the MC CUU patterns.

We'll see what happens now, if this even makes it into law.

But, I'll still bet CAP ends up in ABUs in two years, because any mandate like this would take 5 or more years to trickle down fully through the services, then another 2 or 3 years to trickle down to CAP.

Thom Hamilton

[RADIOMAN015]

Nice simulated pictures :clap:

The issue even with the current BDU as well as the proposal for the ABU including the color of the CAP type insiginias, makes it's very difficult to differentiate CAP senior members from real military members at  relatively short distances.

Perhaps a bright red outline with current blue with white lettering for Civil Air Patrol, or even some international bright orange color "Civil Air Patrol" on the uniform.  As far as rank colors goes, as you know USAF wanted to ensure that CAP rank would be differentiated from "real" military officers so that's why you have the current rank colors on blue background. 

CAP missions require our members to be seen/visible and are not the same missions as military forces that during potential battles/attacks need appropriate camoflauge that this ABU provides.   

Even as CAP continues it's quest for branding & public recognition, uniform differentiation from typical military uniforms (especially BDU's/ABU's) may be something worthy to explore.
RM         

[DC]

Nice simulated pictures :clap:

The issue even with the current BDU as well as the proposal for the ABU including the color of the CAP type insiginias, makes it's very difficult to differentiate CAP senior members from real military members at  relatively short distances.

Perhaps a bright red outline with current blue with white lettering for Civil Air Patrol, or even some international bright orange color "Civil Air Patrol" on the uniform.  As far as rank colors goes, as you know USAF wanted to ensure that CAP rank would be differentiated from "real" military officers so that's why you have the current rank colors on blue background. 

CAP missions require our members to be seen/visible and are not the same missions as military forces that during potential battles/attacks need appropriate camoflauge that this ABU provides.   

Even as CAP continues it's quest for branding & public recognition, uniform differentiation from typical military uniforms (especially BDU's/ABU's) may be something worthy to explore.
RM       

You obviously have no desire to go out in public in your uniform, otherwise you might hesitate before putting ridiculous color combinations all over it in the quest of the lofty state of 'High Viz'. The visibility issue has been beat to death, we wear florescent orange, reflective vests when we need to be highly visible, no patch on a uniform is going to do anything to enhance that, so why not choose something that is marginally aesthetically pleasing and doesn't contrast horribly with the uniform it's attached to?

As for 'differentiation' from the Air Force, I for one, believe that we need to forge a closer bond with our military partners, not do everything we can to split away. Keeping a similar uniform is one such way that we can do that. There is also roughly 23,000 people in CAP that are part of a heavily military based leadership and aerospace education program, known in some circles as  'Cadets'. Most that I know would be very displeased to see CAP denigrate into 'SAR Boy Scouts'.

[Thom]

The visibility issue has been beat to death, we wear florescent orange, reflective vests when we need to be highly visible, no patch on a uniform is going to do anything to enhance that, so why not choose something that is marginally aesthetically pleasing and doesn't contrast horribly with the uniform it's attached to?

Ummm, have you SEEN some of the Wing and Unit Patches out there???

Sorry, just wanted to lighten the mood in here on a Friday evening.

Thom Hamilton

[RADIOMAN015]

The visibility issue has been beat to death, we wear florescent orange, reflective vests when we need to be highly visible, no patch on a uniform is going to do anything to enhance that, so why not choose something that is marginally aesthetically pleasing and doesn't contrast horribly with the uniform it's attached to?

Ummm, have you SEEN some of the Wing and Unit Patches out there???

The pictures posted do not show any wing patches attached to the uniform, so it is unclear whether this additional "differentiation" from the real military (at least AF wise) would be on the uniform.
RM

[SarDragon]

Nice simulated pictures :clap:

The issue even with the current BDU as well as the proposal for the ABU including the color of the CAP type insiginias, makes it's very difficult to differentiate CAP senior members from real military members at  relatively short distances.

Perhaps a bright red outline with current blue with white lettering for Civil Air Patrol, or even some international bright orange color "Civil Air Patrol" on the uniform. As far as rank colors goes, as you know USAF wanted to ensure that CAP rank would be differentiated from "real" military officers so that's why you have the current rank colors on blue background. 

CAP missions require our members to be seen/visible and are not the same missions as military forces that during potential battles/attacks need appropriate camoflauge that this ABU provides.   

Even as CAP continues it's quest for branding & public recognition, uniform differentiation from typical military uniforms (especially BDU's/ABU's) may be something worthy to explore.
RM   

No freakin' way! Check out the new Bank of America signage, if you have any in your area, and you'll see why. Red directly against blue is a horrible combination, particularly with the colors we already use!

This isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I still think it's a bad idea.

[Spike]

As far as rank colors goes, as you know USAF wanted to ensure that CAP rank would be differentiated from "real" military officers so that's why you have the current rank colors on blue background. 

Good assumption, but not correct.  We have the current colors because CAP mirrored the Air Force.  At one time the Air Force had ultramarine blue junk like us.  They changed, but for some odd reason CAP did not. 

As far as changing insignia colors, it will never happen since Vanguard can charge us more for our unique color scheme. 

[Hawk200]

As far as changing insignia colors, it will never happen since Vanguard can charge us more for our unique color scheme.

That will only continue up to the point where Vanguard will spend more acquiring UM blue fabric than they can reasonably charge to sell a completed insignia.

Then they'll notice a big drop in people buying it, because people will go to other places to get it.

At that point, Vanguard will push something cheaper for them, but has maximum "resell" value so that they continue to make money on it.

Vanguard's mistake is the same one that many corporations are making. They think that they have to make a profit on each individual item they sell.

Many corporations have learned that you charge high dollar for the major things, and take a loss on little things that aren't going to really affect the gross income much. Vanguard can do this. They're too greedy to do so, though.

[Johnny Yuma]

The more I read, the more I'm convinced CAP should go all Blue BDU's and call it good. Full color insignia on subdued combat uniforms looks stupid anyway.

[MIKE]

Might as well forget about ABUs and start thinking MultiCam.

[Hawk200]

Might as well forget about ABUs and start thinking MultiCam.

I wouldn't bother thinking about those yet. All those ABUs are out there, they've got to go somewhere. No reason for us to think about Multicam at all.

[sfdefender]

CAP should step up and adopt multicam first, that way the DOD will start copying us for once!

[SJFedor]

CAP should step up and adopt multicam first, that way the DOD will start copying us for once!

...why? What mission-related purpose would it serve?

[heliodoc]

Now how would CAP be able to introduce multicam first?

What pot of money and three bid contracts does CAP have with the uni manufacturers?

DoD copying us first??  Really?

[Stonewall]

Borrowed this from CadetStuff...let's see if this gets anyone's panties in a wad   

[Hawk200]

Borrowed this from CadetStuff...let's see if this gets anyone's panties in a wad   

Putting the "No way in Hades do we need to adopt Multicam now!" aside, there's a few things.

1. We don't even need a flag. Wearing an insignia just to wear it is unecessary, don't do it for just place filler. Even if it was absolutely necessary, use a left hand flag(wearing it on the left arm, of course). Flightsuit flag stock could be used.

2. Why have a nameplate? Why not separate name and branch tapes, just like we have now? Most ACU style clothing is already configured in that manner.

3. On the senior version, why have a rank square with "CAP" on it, and have rank and "CAP" on a cloth namplate? It would certainly be Department of Redundancy Department Redundancy requirements approved. On the same note, why cadet rank on the nametag when there's already a rank square?

4. Why have "OPS ID" tags anyway?

5. Why "OPS ID" tags for only cadets?

6. Medical staff? Big "Huh?" there.

7. Wing patch? Why? Didn't we eliminate those things to eliminate the 52 little CAP's?

8. Why bother with any subdued insignia at all when others are vivid?

Seems like someone was just showing off Photoshop skills, rather than proposing a suitable design.

[MIKE]

I like tapes better than the ASNP.  JMHO.  It just says CAP everywhere instead of CIVIL AIR PATROL.  Maybe ok for a Gore-tex parka, but not a shirt.

[Cherokeepilot]

Hi guys, it looks like we're an hour late and a dollar short.  The Army has already announced that it will begin fielding MultiCam combat uniforms to units deploying to Afghanistan in the summer. But PEO Soldier released some more specific information the other day on its blog that goes into more details.

The first MultiCam ensembles will go out around July and the first units to get them will be 4th Brigade, 10th Mountain Division at Fort Polk, LA; 1st Brigade, 4th Infantry Division at Fort Carson, CO; and 2nd Brigade, 34th Infantry Division of the Iowa Army National Guard, the Army says.

Now Joes already in country probably won't see MultiCam threads until at least October.
73s

[Stonewall]

Actually many units, Army and Air Force, have been wearing Multicams for a while now.

Here are some pics of troops, mostly Special Operations, wearing Multicams in theater now.


U.S. service members, from Focused Targeting Force, 101st Airborne Division, Forward Operating Base Salerno,
perform an air assault on an objective from the bowels of a CH-47 Chinook helicopter, Feb. 24. Chinook helicopters
are one of the primary air platforms for moving troops and supplies throughout Afghanistan.


3rd SFG(A)


The following pictures are from a 2008 Air Force Article...yes, they're Air Force Security Forces...


A members of a Deployed Aircraft Ground Response Element from the 1st Special Operations
Security Forces Squadron catalog and bag evidence gathered from a simulated high value
target elimination scene during the Emerald Warrior Exercise, Feb. 3. The forensic evidence
collected from the scene could result in the identification of other high value targets.
(Photo by Senior Airman Julianne Showalter : 1st Special Operations Wing Public Affairs)


A member of a Deployed Aircraft Ground Response Element from the 1st Special Operations
Security Forces Squadron surveys the area for threats during a tactical evidence collection
simulation during the Emerald Warrior Exercise, Feb. 3. Collecting forensic evidence from the
scene verifies the elimination targets and provides further intelligence for other high value
targets. (Photo by Senior Airman Julianne Showalter : 1st Special Operations Wing Public Affairs)

-------------------------

Sec. 352 of the 2010 Defense Authorization Bill contains specific verbage forcing each service to provide a report by FY2011 concerning a joint uniform. Multicam would seem to be the most likely pattern if something was to be developed. I think congress is actually on the right track with this.

We'll see in about 8 months, as long as this report can be had under the FOIA.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h2647enr.txt.pdf

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/10/13/camo-and-the-2010-defense-authorization-bill/

[Stonewall]

Of course this was my proposal back in 2007...

[davidsinn]

Of course this was my proposal back in 2007...

Yes please. I'll take three.

[maverik]

Honestly I'd take Stonewall's sharp uniform over ABU's anyday.

[vmstan]

Honestly I'd take Stonewall's sharp uniform over ABU's anyday.

Agreed. I'd take those over just about any other option. ABU, ACU, BDU, etc.

[maverik]

I really like the NESA patch on the right shoulder, I wish we could go back to it lol.

[Nick]

I really like this design ... I would maintain the velcro for the namestrips and the rank, then sell velcro versions of rank insignia for cadet officers/senior members and a velcro blank for cadet enlisted to pin their rank.

As for badges ... I like the Army's approach to it -- pin-on badges in garrison and no badges in field.  The idea behind velcro is to simplify adding/removing stuff, and with the "supply stock" of uniforms that float around CAP, sewing leaves marks.

As for the color pattern -- everyone's right with OD: Nobody uses it and everyone could wear it.  Sure, we'll get confused for the Bolivian or Mexican Army sometimes, but that's what the US flag is for.

And as for wing patches -- yeah, I know it's an optional thing now, but there are quite a few wings that wrote a wing sup the day after the new policy came out to re-establish it as a mandatory item.  Might as well keep it.

[vmstan]

As for the color pattern -- everyone's right with OD: Nobody uses it and everyone could wear it.  Sure, we'll get confused for the Bolivian or Mexican Army sometimes, but that's what the US flag is for.

Agreed. Plus they're almost like a "throw back" uniform to the days when the real AF wore basic OD green with blue tapes.

[N Harmon]

Agreed. Plus they're almost like a "throw back" uniform to the days when the real AF wore basic OD green with blue tapes.

I think that is why I dislike the uniform. It's too retro. It screams "CAP is 25 years behind the times". We need modern uniforms, that follow the trend of today. Not more blue tapes on jungle fatigues. Distinctiveness is satisfied with white thread on the tapes, rank, and badges. If CAP-USAF says no-go on that (even though that is WAY more distinctive than CAP flightsuits vs USAF flightsuits), then we dump the USAF field uniform, keep the AF blue dress uniform, and just standardize on the BBDUs as our field uniform for everyone...cadet and senior.

[Spike]

STOP.  We all need to stop inventing stuff that will never go anywhere.  Why can't we just wear what is in large stock, and is relatively inexpensive??

If we go back to uniforms of 30 years ago.......how much more would they cost than current BDU's?? 

If we use ABU's (since they are currently in production) we can save ourselves some money, when the cost to buy BDU's is more expensive than ABU's. 

Everything in CAP should be based on 80 percent cost and 20 percent need.  We MUST keep the actuall costs of being a member down.

Am I the only one who is tired of paying lost of money to be a volunteer?  You can go to Vanguards website and buy something from the "Civil Air Patrol section" for $1.00 and then go tho their "Army section" and buy the same thing for $0.50.  That is criminal, and should be more important than trying to get ABU's right now.

[vmstan]

It is a very modern uniform, based off the current ACU, just with a single color. No different than having BBDUs - except that a set of OD fatigues looks a heck of a lot more "militant" than the blue.

But really I just wear what they ever they'll tell me to. Blue, green, jungle cammie or digital tiger striped.

[N Harmon]

except that a set of OD fatigues looks a heck of a lot more "militant" than the blue.

It does look "militant". I'm just not sure that is what CAP needs to look like. We need to look like a life saving organization, and part of the Air Force team.

[vmstan]

I would agree.

Heck, when I was explaining to my mother that I'd joined CAP, and was explaining the uniforms to her (the short, nice, happy version... not the CAPTalk version) one of her first questions in reference to the camo BDU was "who are you trying to hide from?"

[heliodoc]

^^^^

Good story


There are folks OUTSIDE of CAP that can see practicality.  More argument for a "new" uniform

But...love that one...even a parent has more common sense than the proverbial 68 year old organization who seems not wanting too much change.

The dinosaurs are gone and so could a CAP uniform!!

[vmstan]

Eh, my mother isn't much of a military fan. So there is a built in level of sarcasm. I remember the conversation I had with her when I told her I was going to do NROTC, what seems like many years ago.