Why do we have so many uniform choices

[AlphaSigOU]

Just to disprove a myth, the Air Force does kick people out for being overweight. 

And Ma Blue does NOT grant any waivers or favors. The regs are firm and inflexible. Back in my day WIWOAD over 20 years ago I was in an AFSC that made it too easy to pack on the pounds (food service specialist); in those days there was no mandatory PT, just the annual mile-and-a-half run. In my younger, less experienced days I ignored friendly advice; when I was standing tall before the commander being told I was getting the boot for being overweight is too late to turn back the clock. Poof! Port call back to the states and and an admin discharge.

Do I regret the decisions I made when I was younger? Yes. Do I dwell about them today? No. If I don't feel comfortable wearing AF style or don't present a professional appearance in them I have the option of wearing corporates.

[heliodoc]

Thanks for your service and post CPT Corway

NOW for you CAPers bent on this.......you could possibly leave QUITE a personnel and EXPERIENCE vacuum if you go down this road

Try that for all you non RM type uniform wearing types and see what you get...


HOPE you 'd be happy with the result.   If you are not happy with your larger sized CAPer members then let them wear corporates the polos.  But until NHQ comes down with the dictum....
Who do you think you folks are other than uni Nazis??  Are you the new Weight Watcher Command for Kombat Air Patrol??

These folks no matter their weights, are serving where they could not now.  AND some are some  VERY Nskilled folks

Good work CAP talkers.   Maybe for you commenters, maybe you need 11 weeks of RM butt beating PT....we KNOW you want it!!!

[Spike]

Just to disprove a myth, the Air Force does kick people out for being overweight.  My brother, a dental tech, was 15 pounds overweight.  They wrote him up and sent him to a psychologist.  The Air Force psychologist told him that if he was happy being 15 pounds overweight, it was his life. 

WOW!  Instead of seeing a nutritionist or related field expert.  Unbelievable.

 

[AlphaSigOU]

WOW!  Instead of seeing a nutritionist or related field expert.  Unbelievable.

Ma Blue isn't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to policy... Every squadron orderly room had a medical scale, but was it regularly calibrated for accuracy? Probably. When they later began measuring BMI, is an orderly room clerk a medical tech trained in how to properly do so? The reg says how to get it done. Bust a few weigh-ins then life gets worse for you. LOCs, LORs, a UIF and then discharge processing. Those of us overseas got a couple of extra weeks because of getting a port call date back to the States for discharge, but those who were already in the land of round doorknobs got shown the main gate within a week of the discharge notice.

[cap235629]

Just to disprove a myth, the Air Force does kick people out for being overweight.  My brother, a dental tech, was 15 pounds overweight.  They wrote him up and sent him to a psychologist.  The Air Force psychologist told him that if he was happy being 15 pounds overweight, it was his life. 

WOW!  Instead of seeing a nutritionist or related field expert.  Unbelievable.

Who says they owe you this?

I was discharged for failure to maintain Army Weight Control Standards.  My weight gain was greatly contributed to by being on profile for 6 month's due to a traumatic injury sustained in the line of duty.

I was NOT given the opportunity to go to "High Point" (the nutritional and exercise program for overweight soldiers) when other soldiers who were not nearly as out of standards as I were allowed to go, nor was I given the opportunity to have a day of recovery for a day of profile before I was required to have a weigh in and PT test.  I was afforded a JAG consult and was told that the Army had no duty to provide me extra help to maintain standards.  I was discharged Honorably without separation pay (IT WAS STARTED 3 MONTHS LATER) and classified as a disabled veteran when my injuries continued to plague me for many years before I went to the VA.

I am sure the AF handles thing similarly (i.e. sporadically enforcing the same standards from command to command)

[Spike]

Who says they owe you this?

May I ask how long ago this was?  Maybe the rules changed since you got out. 

[Larry Mangum]

The Army, Air Force and Marines have always been intolerant of overweight people.  If anything it may be getting worse for airman as the Air Force has totally revamped its physical fitness standards.  Post 911 deployments to the sandbox, revealed serious shortcomings in its fitness programs and the annual 1.5 miles run has been replaced by more stringent standards.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Thanks for your service and post CPT Corway

NOW for you CAPers bent on this.......you could possibly leave QUITE a personnel and EXPERIENCE vacuum if you go down this road

Try that for all you non RM type uniform wearing types and see what you get...


HOPE you 'd be happy with the result.   If you are not happy with your larger sized CAPer members then let them wear corporates the polos.  But until NHQ comes down with the dictum....
Who do you think you folks are other than uni Nazis??  Are you the new Weight Watcher Command for Kombat Air Patrol??

These folks no matter their weights, are serving where they could not now.  AND some are some  VERY Nskilled folks

Good work CAP talkers.   Maybe for you commenters, maybe you need 11 weeks of RM butt beating PT....we KNOW you want it!!!

I do not understand your point.

[O-Rex]

Time for some levity here before the mod starts jingling his keys 

My proposal comes from the Army's example, i.e.,

Field ACU's

Flight ACU's

Service ACU's

Parade ACU's

Evening Dress ACU's

[JohnKachenmeister]

I think we all can agree that the many uniforms of the CAP create an image problem, both to internal and external audiences, and reduce the sense of "Esprit-de-Corps that comes with uniformed service.

The solution, however, is the tough call.

There are several possible solutions:

1.  Approach the AF with a proposed modification of the CAP weight standards, so that most, if not all, CAP members can wear the USAF uniform.  Not likely, I agree, but until we run something up the flagpole, we have no way of knowing if anyone will salute.

2.  Abandon the USAF uniform in favor of putting all officers in the TPU, calling it a "Modified USAF uniform."  Yes, this is distasteful to some, including me.  This is especially true since the NLO convinced the NB to disrespect combat veterans by forbiding the wear of military decorations and calling combat service "Inappropriate" for CAP members.  We would also have to allow for some level of "Fuzziness" but hopefully short of the "Outlaw Biker" image that some CAP members present in the white-and-gray.

3.  Abandon the TPU, the white-and-gray, and the USAF uniform for a new Corporate uniform that incorporates features placing it closer to the new USAF dress uniform, the "Hap Arnold Heritage" uniform, but with enough differences that the USAF won't have a cow over a fat guy wearing it.

4.  Put everybody in the lowest-common-denominator uniform, the white and grays.  Get rid of the AF and TPU uniforms.

[Ned]

I think we all can agree that the many uniforms of the CAP create an image problem, both to internal and external audiences, and reduce the sense of "Esprit-de-Corps that comes with uniformed service.

Non concur with your premise.

I have an active member for multiple decades, and I literally have never once heard a non-member or stakeholder comment negatively on the variety of uniforms worn by members.

(Sure, I have had them ask "why?", but never heard a negative comment once the reasons are explained.)

And even amongst members, in my experience most don't really care.  The primary concerns of members are cost, consistency (don't keep changing things), and a minimum of professional appearance.

This board (as well as the proverbial post-meeting parking lot) certainly generates a lot of discussion.  But we must clearly understand that we are not representative of the membership as a whole.  We are literally the vocal minority.

That's not a bad thing, of course.  But we shouldn't assume that a consensus here on the board is the same thing as a consensus among all members or of the general public.

The reason we have 10 or so different uniforms is because we have at least 10 or so different needs for uniforms.  Every military service seems to have as many or more varieties than we do, and for the same reason.  (And I suspect they will continue to internally debate the same issues as we do.)

CAP can and will continue to fuss and tweak the mix.  Individual uniform combinations will come and go.  But we will always have a large number of uniform choices because of necessity.

Ned Lee