Customs and Courtesies While Wearing the New Distinctive Uniform

[mawr]

I now have the new distinctive uniform made up primarily of the white aviator shirt and AF blue slacks.  I know that this is a CAP distinctive uniform and act accordingly in reference to customs and courtesies.  However, this uniform feels like the AF uniform and I find that I fight saluting and such.   Should I render the courtesies as I would when in a AF uniform?

Has NHQ addressed this?   What are your opinions?.

As my wing's chief of staff, I feel that I must set an example. 

[Al Sayre]

It never hurts to return a salute.

[mmouw]

In that instance you would be outside and no cover. I agree that you should always return a salute. When on a military installation. I wonder how many looks you will get when you are outside and no cover. Anyone have this arise?

[Al Sayre]

It works for the commander in chief...  I wouldn't go around saluting people, but I would still return it, it is after all a courtesy.

[mawr]

For those of you with current or prior military experience, should you salute me while I'm wearing the new uniform, would you be offended by me responding with a nod and a "Good Morning" or such in lieu of the return of salute?  Though my instincts are to return the salute, it just feels wrong without the cover.

I'm at Maxwell AFB often and I not only have NHQ there but the OCS and AETC there as well.  I want to follow CAP regs but, I also do not want to offend those in the military.

Will the military even really care?

I agree, it feels odd to wear this uniform outside with out a flight cap.  But, though I like the new uniform, it is a bastardization of both civilian and military items.

Oh, and I would NEVER compare myself to the Commander In Chief.  LOL

[Al Sayre]

I'm prior military, and I wouldn't be offended in either case, a salute or a polite nod and "good morning" etc.  However, not returning the salute might embarass the saluter when he gets close enough to figure out why you didn't return it.  Like I said, it's a courtesy.

[MIKE]

IMO... The CAP distinctive uniform combinations should be no salute uniforms... Both parties should render an appropriate verbal greeting but don't render the hand salute.  Same goes for members in civilian clothes...  Both parties in Air Force style uniform, render the hand salute as appropriate... But if one or both of the members is in distinctives or civvies offer a verbal greeting such as "Good afternoon colonel."

Rendering a hand salute in a uniform which is supposed to be distinctly different from the military style uniform for a reason... Well, it just seems odd. 

[SarDragon]

My personal rule - no hat, no salute. If someone does salute me, I will return it, but I almost never initiate a standard military salute in a corporate uniform. OTOH, my parody salute for my friends is fair game almost any time, and is given with the same intent as a regular military salute. YMMV.

[Slim]

Why the big hang-up over military style vs corporate uniforms?  Without taking the time to look up the proper cites, I do believe that an officer is to be saluted upon recognition- in uniform or out.  Whether that officer returns it or not is up to the individual.

Honestly, if someone takes the time to show me the courtesy of a salute, I'm going to give them the respect of returning it.

While at encampment one year, I was on the reviewing stand at the pass in review ceremony, and was seated next to the national IG (a man I've known amd respected for 20 years).   During the national anthem, I'm standing there at present arms, and he did everything short of physically pulling my hand down to my side to get me to stop.  Afterward, he told me that the coprporate uniform is not a military uniform, and I shouldn't be saluting while wearing it.  My response was "Neither is my fire department uniform, and we salute in that all the time."  Being a retired police officer, he immediately knew my reference.  As the colors passed, he was proudly rendering the military salute along with the rest of us.

A salute isn't about the clothes, it's about the person rendering proper courtesy to another person or something deserving of that courtesy.

[mikeylikey]

When on post during the weekends or after retreat, I salute those officers that are not wearing a uniform, and soldiers still salute me when I am out of my uniform.  Perfect example happens frequently at the PX when one of my soldiers recognizes me they salute, and even though I am in civies, I return the salute.  There are no regulations that strictly forbid the salute between those in and those out of uniform.

[SarDragon]

A salute isn't about the clothes, it's about the person rendering proper courtesy to another person or something deserving of that courtesy.

And that, my friends, is about as concise as you can get. Thanks, Slim.

[Nick Critelli]

The other day I was in uniform at a gas station.  As I was leaving, an elderly gentleman and his wife were coming in.  When he saw me he said, in with a voice that resonated all the way back to 1940, "Good morning, Sir."  and issued one of the most snappy salutes I have ever seen.  Shivers went up my spine. Here was an old soldier from WWII doing what he was taught over 60 years ago.  It was an absolute honor to return his salute.

[Nick]

[darn].  That beats my story of wearing my CAP Captain uniform, getting saluted by a Master Sergeant security forces flight chief, him proceeding to nibble ever so gently into my ass about one of my cadets, saluting again and departing on his way, then me showing up two weeks later in an AF Senior Airman uniform reporting for duty as his flight member.

But to answer the question -- I've followed the "No Hat, No Salute" rule for quite some time and I've gotten off fairly well with it.  Although I don't think I would be "offended" if an officer didn't salute me back (which they've done... they just smile and say "hi" like they don't realize what I'm doing -- especially medical lieutenants), airman recognizing the need to do so may always salute under any conditions (AFMAN 36-2203) and, it's always polite to return the greeting in some form or fashion.

[Slim]

IMO... The CAP distinctive uniform combinations should be no salute uniforms... [snip]

This must have slipped past me. 

Sorry Mike, but I have to disagree with you here.  By saying that an officer in corporates (by choice or not) is not "Worthy" of a salute only serves one purpose.  It further enforces the fact that anyone who chooses (or has) to wear the corporate uniform is not a "Real" officer.

Rendering a hand salute in a uniform which is supposed to be distinctly different from the military style uniform for a reason... Well, it just seems odd. 

And it will continue to be that way for you until the day you are told that you can't wear the military style uniforms anymore, and you would (in your opinion) no longer rate the courtesy you used to be due as an officer.

I feel a further explanation is in order.  I don't think of myself as a real major, I don't troll the guard base looking for salutes, I don't think I get caught up in the trappings of my grade.  OTOH, I am proud of the fact that I'm a major in the Civil Air Patrol, that I met every single educational and TiG requirement to earn it.  I didn't crank through the senior program, and I spent twelve years as a captain; partly by choice and mostly because I couldn't get to a CLC until I was chewed out by an ANG Lt Col who told me to get off my FPOC and get that one thing I needed to further my PME.

Even though I wear the corporate uniforms, I still salute each and every time/place it's appropriate (see my opinion on it above).  I return every salute given to me out of returned respect to the person giving it to me. 

At the Air Guard CRTC where my encampment is held, I still get saluted by some enlisted (both airmen and NCOs).  They know that they don't have to, but these are people that I've known and worked with for years (there are a few old timers who remember me as a flight officer, and one or two left from my cadet days).  I like to think of this situation as the original purpose of a salute-a formal greeting between members of the proffession of arms.  In other words, they're saluting me the person and not the rank on my blue BDU collar.