Stars on Badges

[SDF_Specialist]

According to some people I know, the GT badge with a star means GTL. They also say that the GT badge with the star and olive branches means GBD. Now I know this isn't true. That only shows how many AF missions one has been on. So why is it that when Wing ES staff is aware that a cadet is wearing this badge, nothing is done? That just interests me.

[arajca]

What does the reg say?

[JC004]

?!

Basic = GTM; Star = GTL; Star & Wreath = GBD

The only bling for the number of missions is the SAR ribbon, which is not especially easy to get.

[JohnKachenmeister]

According to some people I know, the GT badge with a star means GTL. They also say that the GT badge with the star and olive branches means GBD. Now I know this isn't true. That only shows how many AF missions one has been on. So why is it that when Wing ES staff is aware that a cadet is wearing this badge, nothing is done? That just interests me.

I don't understand your question.

It IS true that the star is for GTL, and the star+wreath is for GDB.

A cadet CAN wear the GTL badge if he has met the standards and is 18 years old.

[SDF_Specialist]

Well my issue is why is that they part of CAP that has uniform infractions are are never called on it when it is noticed by someone who is knowledgeable? Why are those who point things out quietly looked at as a "narc"? With the way some things are, I wonder if I could get away with wearing the master MP badge? No, I'm not a pilot. Just blowing off some steam.

[SarDragon]

People don't like being told that they are wrong. It's even worse when the informer uses no tact in the process.

At my last wing conference, I pointed out over two dozen uniform infractions to various SMs, and most were thankful. A couple were offended that a mere captain had the temerity to tell a lieutenant colonel that he was wearing his ribbons wrong, in spite of the difference in the nature of the attachments to their respective red service ribbons (a 20 vs. a single clasp).

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well my issue is why is that they part of CAP that has uniform infractions are are never called on it when it is noticed by someone who is knowledgeable? Why are those who point things out quietly looked at as a "narc"? With the way some things are, I wonder if I could get away with wearing the master MP badge? No, I'm not a pilot. Just blowing off some steam.

Ryan:

OK, are you saying that a cadet was seen wearing a GT badge that he was not authorized to wear, and that he was not corrected by an officer who knew that he was not entitled to wear it?  I'm still not sure what your comment is about.

[Eclipse]

Honestly, I have a hard time believing that a group of members could be THIS uninformed about the program, and no one has seen fit to correct them.

Assuming this is true, its likely an aircrew-type confusing the way you get a wreath on
the Observer Wings.

1lt, I know this isn't your fault, and I'm sure you're gonna get crap for pointing it out, but geez....I mean...come on.

I would be willing to bet that if they are this far off on something simple like a GT badge, the rest of their get-ups must be just amazing.

[Hawk200]

I would be willing to bet that if they are this far off on something simple like a GT badge, the rest of their get-ups must be just amazing.

I've seen some doozies as well. The worst one is a few people that I knew of that thought you could wear observers wings with the flightsuit if you weren't a pilot (That was back when anyone could wear the flightsuit.) Called a few of them on it, and somehow one guy ended up working at wing. The next time I saw him in blues, he was wearing observer wings. Kind of hard to get when he'd only been in six months.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I can understand not calling someone on being a "PX Hero" if you don't know the guy.  But if you KNOW that the troop is not entitled to a badge or a ribbon, it is a point of honor to challenge him. 

I remember some years ago, the Chief of Naval Operations wore a "V" device on one of his ribbons that he was not entitled to wear.  He ended up committing suicide because he felt that he had brought dishonor to the Navy.

I have no tolerance for "PX Hero" types.  If you rate an award or badge, wear it.  If you don't rate it, you are a complete anal sphincter muscle for wearing the award.  I don't care if you are a second lieutenant wearing observer wings or a presidential candidate claiming authority to wear "The Silver Star with Combat V," which is an award combination which does not exist.

[Hawk200]

I can understand not calling someone on being a "PX Hero" if you don't know the guy.  But if you KNOW that the troop is not entitled to a badge or a ribbon, it is a point of honor to challenge him. 

I remember some years ago, the Chief of Naval Operations wore a "V" device on one of his ribbons that he was not entitled to wear.  He ended up committing suicide because he felt that he had brought dishonor to the Navy.

I have no tolerance for "PX Hero" types.  If you rate an award or badge, wear it.  If you don't rate it, you are a complete anal sphincter muscle for wearing the award.  I don't care if you are a second lieutenant wearing observer wings or a presidential candidate claiming authority to wear "The Silver Star with Combat V," which is an award combination which does not exist.

I remember that case of the Admiral. I thought he did it cause he was emberrassed. Oh well, either way, he's gone, not reason to kick crap on his grave.

I don't remember the "Silver Star with Combat V". Who was that?

The "PX hero" remark is funny. On the Air Force side, I had about 15 ribbons (been around a while). Was in school, and had an initial entry student ask me where I got them. "From military clothing, there's a big wall over there with a bunch of ribbons." The jaw drop was priceless. "You mean you just put them on?" Told him no, that he didn't ask me that. The highest dec I have is an Achievement medal (with OLC), everything else was just matter of  assignements, ALS, and generally time in service, nothing special. It's funny that people think it's impressive until I explain what most of them are.

[jimmydeanno]

Some of the snafu's I've seen in the last couple years...

1) Senior Members from NJ wearing chords.

2) Membership Ribbon with "V" device and 2 Silver Clasps.

3) Legal Badge being worn because she "was taking law classes"

4) Male wearing floppy bow tie...

5) Senior wearing gold pip because they were a flight officer...

6) Naval personnel wearing their utility pants (the blue ones with the name on the pants) with the AF blue shirt...

7) Naval Chief wearing an anchor on the blank epaulets on their CAP Blues...

8) Seniors wearing shiny metal insignia on BDUs because it was easier than sewing.

9) Prior service personnel just swapping the service tag on the BDU top and nothing else.

10) Cadet wearing, CP badge, ES Badge, Comm Badge, Marksmanship Badge, GT w/ wreath, Solo Wings, and leadership ribbon...

11) Senior wearing DR ribbon with "V" device for actions prior to joining CAP, along with command service and meritorious service...

12) Naval personnel wearing their brass ship buckle in blues...

13) Multiple members wearing the Marine Corps style ribbon holders with the gap...

14) American Flag Patch sewn above the nametape (where the ES patch goes)...

15) Cadet wearing command pin because he was C/CC

16) White sneakers in blues...

17) Prior cadets wearing cadet ribbons and badges not authorized for seniors (community service, all their achievement ribbons, model rocketry badge, etc)

There's just too much of "I think its done like this," or "I was told it's like this," instead of people picking up a regulation and reading it.

Disabled smileys - MIKE

[JohnKachenmeister]

The presidential candidate was "John Kerry."  He posted his DD-214 on line, and MoveOn.org posted it side-by-side with George Bush's  DD-214 from flight school.

The Awards and Decorations block on Kerry's was an obvious forgery.  If he had applied for a slot in my unit I would have rejected him until I got a "Clean" copy.

In the DD-214 , Kerry listed "Silver Star with Combat V" as well as 2 "Bronze Star with Combat V." 

The correct entry would be "Bronze Star Medal with V Device."  The Silver Star is NEVER awarded with a "V" device, since it is only awarded for valor in combat.  The Bronze Star and some other medals (The Air Medal, for example) can be awarded either for valor or for meritorious achievement.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Some of the snafu's I've seen in the last couple years...

1) Senior Members from NJ wearing chords.

2) Membership Ribbon with "V" device and 2 Silver Clasps.

3) Legal Badge being worn because she "was taking law classes"

4) Male wearing floppy bow tie...

5) Senior wearing gold pip because they were a flight officer...

6) Naval personnel wearing their utility pants (the blue ones with the name on the pants) with the AF blue shirt...

7) Naval Chief wearing an anchor on the blank epaulets on their CAP Blues...

8) Seniors wearing shiny metal insignia on BDUs because it was easier than sewing.

9) Prior service personnel just swapping the service tag on the BDU top and nothing else.

10) Cadet wearing, CP badge, ES Badge, Comm Badge, Marksmanship Badge, GT w/ wreath, Solo Wings, and leadership ribbon...

11) Senior wearing DR ribbon with "V" device for actions prior to joining CAP, along with command service and meritorious service...

12) Naval personnel wearing their brass ship buckle in blues...

13) Multiple members wearing the Marine Corps style ribbon holders with the gap...

14) American Flag Patch sewn above the nametape (where the ES patch goes)...

15) Cadet wearing command pin because he was C/CC

16) White sneakers in blues...

17) Prior cadets wearing cadet ribbons and badges not authorized for seniors (community service, all their achievement ribbons, model rocketry badge, etc)

There's just too much of "I think its done like this," or "I was told it's like this," instead of people picking up a regulation and reading it.

Disabled smileys - MIKE

Comments (By the numbers):

4.  Don't ask, don't tell?  Why would this officer wear women's clothing?

13.  The Marine Corps does not separate rows of ribbons.  The Army does.

16.  "Dress Blues and Tennis Shoes" is a figure of speech, and intended to be a joke.  It was not meant to be serious guidance.

Disabled smileys - MIKE

[JC004]

opps...accidentally deleted it...oh well

[jimmydeanno]

Comments (By the numbers):

4.  Don't ask, don't tell?  Why would this officer wear women's clothing?

13.  The Marine Corps does not separate rows of ribbons.  The Army does.

4. Something regarding needing a 'mess dress' version of the blazer combo and needing a bow tie, it reminded him of a crevat or something...  I didn't listen to the explanation for too long, but the gentleman was corrected.

13.  Thanks for that, I appreciate it

[stillamarine]

13.  The Marine Corps does not separate rows of ribbons.  The Army does.

Not Correct, Sir.  According to MCO P1020.34G Chapter 5 Section 5301

6.  Parallel rows of ribbon bars will either be spaced 1/8 inch apart or placed together without spacing at the individual's option.

[JohnKachenmeister]

13.  The Marine Corps does not separate rows of ribbons.  The Army does.

Not Correct, Sir.  According to MCO P1020.34G Chapter 5 Section 5301

6.  Parallel rows of ribbon bars will either be spaced 1/8 inch apart or placed together without spacing at the individual's option.

I stand corrected. 

[ZigZag911]

Some of the snafu's I've seen in the last couple years...
1) Senior Members from NJ wearing chords.

Some years back a well-meaning (if misguided!) NJ wing CC authorized some sort of shoulder cords for everyone involved in encampment staff, including seniors.

Not wanting to get into a debate with Wing HQ over it, some of us in our home unit tried gentle needling (in non-public settings), persuasion, and influence to get a couple of our seniors to quit wearing them with blues.

One or two of the younger officers just laughed at them, which was not the most polite approach, I'll grant you...and as ineffective as all the others, could not get these people to stop wearing those cords, even when we showed them pictures of classy NYC doormen for comparison!

Why a grown up who was not required to do so by assignment & regulation would want to be seen in public wearing those silly cords completely puzzles me!

[mdickinson]

Some of the snafu's I've seen in the last couple years...
1) Senior Members from NJ wearing chords.

Chords? Were they major, minor, or diminished?

Seriously, though - loved the list of uniform infractions. I've seen some of those myself - others were too hiliarous!

Here are the most common ones I saw at the McGuire airshow last month:

1. No American flag on BDU

2. Senior member officers wearing no grade on the BDU cap

3. Senior members wearing metal grade on the BDU cap

4. Cadets (and some seniors) wearing activity badges (National Blue Beret, National Flight Academy, etc.) on the right shirt pocket of the BDU  (where only one patch - the member's unit patch - can go) correction: only the unit patch OR the model rocketry patch (thanks Mike)

5. Cadets wearing the region patch on the right shirt pocket of the BDU. And no, they weren't members of region staff.

6. Senior members wearing a blue 2-line nametag on their blues shirts. (That's right - the nametag that can be worn only with the white-shirt-blue-pants combination. They had removed their gray nametags and substituted this!) When corrected, they said "No, this is correct - this is the new nametag, it replaces the gray one." (smacks forehead)

7. Senior member wearing a BDU that was so worn out, it had large tears and frayed areas all along the bottom hem of the shirt

8. White-and-gray uniform worn with more than 2 badges (pilot wings, ground team badge, and a specialty badge... or two...)

9. Senior member wearing white-and-gray uniform - with the BLACK blazer nametag. (Let's see, that was phased out in, what, 1999?)

and my favorite, seen year after year:

10. the National Cadet Special Activity ribbon worn with triangular clasps denoting multiple activities. I don't know why this ribbon takes stars instead of clasps (probably a misprint in some long-lost edition of the 39-3 that just keeps getting repeated) but it does say stars, not clasps...