G/W Headgear

[jeders]

Before someone suggests foregoing headgear, that isn't an option for some of us follicly challenged and skin cancer prone old folks.

To be fair, neither does a flight cap.  A flight cap protects little of the head and none of the face, neck, or ears.  Granted, it protects more of the head than "nothing" but it is not exactly much.  A full cap (e.g. service cap, baseball cap, PC) protects more than a flight cap but still does not protect the neck and ears and only protects part of the face.   

That's why one of my older members wears a large sun hat when he goes outside in the G/W or polo.

[THRAWN]

Before someone suggests foregoing headgear, that isn't an option for some of us follicly challenged and skin cancer prone old folks.

To be fair, neither does a flight cap.  A flight cap protects little of the head and none of the face, neck, or ears.  Granted, it protects more of the head than "nothing" but it is not exactly much.  A full cap (e.g. service cap, baseball cap, PC) protects more than a flight cap but still does not protect the neck and ears and only protects part of the face.   

That's why one of my older members wears a large sun hat when he goes outside in the G/W or polo.

Older? I'm 42, just had a skin cancer episode, and wear a wide brimmed hat. Stetsons work well...

[DesertRat]

I operate in the high desert of NM. The sun is brutal above 6000 feet.  On a bright, sunny day "civilian headgear during inclement weather" take the form of a boonie hat.

[THRAWN]

Just out of curiosity, why is everybody spending so much time outside in the G/Ws? Do you not have access to utility uniforms? Do you ride bikes to meetings/activities? Is it a long hike from your squadron to your car? Do you have outdoor meetings?

[Checotah]

To be fair, neither does a flight cap.  A flight cap protects little of the head and none of the face, neck, or ears.  Granted, it protects more of the head than "nothing" but it is not exactly much.  A full cap (e.g. service cap, baseball cap, PC) protects more than a flight cap but still does not protect the neck and ears and only protects part of the face.   

True, however, a flight or service cap could preserve some degree of uniformity and organizational identity without the mixed message of a ball cap. 

[Checotah]

Just out of curiosity, why is everybody spending so much time outside in the G/Ws? Do you not have access to utility uniforms? Do you ride bikes to meetings/activities? Is it a long hike from your squadron to your car? Do you have outdoor meetings?

Our unit often participates in ceremonial venues, such as color guard in parades, airport events, veterans' recognitions, burials at the local National Cemetery, and, of course, Wreaths Across America.  Most of these are more properly performed in the G/W uniform rather than utility uniform.   Certainly, these are not the majority of times one would wear the uniform, but they do happen from time to time.

[Spaceman3750]

Just out of curiosity, why is everybody spending so much time outside in the G/Ws? Do you not have access to utility uniforms? Do you ride bikes to meetings/activities? Is it a long hike from your squadron to your car? Do you have outdoor meetings?

Our unit often participates in ceremonial venues, such as color guard in parades, airport events, veterans' recognitions, burials at the local National Cemetery, and, of course, Wreaths Across America.  Most of these are more properly performed in the G/W uniform rather than utility uniform.   Certainly, these are not the majority of times one would wear the uniform, but they do happen from time to time.

Other than WAA, which is a fundraiser and therefore requires the corporate uniform for seniors, why are those better performed in G/W vs. blues? While they may not happen every day, on the surface those do seem to be about 90% of the average squadron's "outside-the-squadron" activities.

[Chappie]

To be fair, neither does a flight cap.  A flight cap protects little of the head and none of the face, neck, or ears.  Granted, it protects more of the head than "nothing" but it is not exactly much.  A full cap (e.g. service cap, baseball cap, PC) protects more than a flight cap but still does not protect the neck and ears and only protects part of the face.   

True, however, a flight or service cap could preserve some degree of uniformity and organizational identity without the mixed message of a ball cap.

A flight or service cap is part of the USAF-style uniform and not part of the Corporate/Distinctive uniform.  The mixing of those two is a "no-no".  One of my pet peeves is seeing someone wear either the USAF-style uniform or BDU belt on the gray trousers.   To have a flight or service cap similar to the American Legion or Veterans of Foreign Wars would simply be cost prohibitive.  My understanding is that an underlying principle that guides the decision of the Uniform Committee is the cost of uniforms/accessories for the membership.   Here is a Knowledge Base answer to the difference between the two uniforms:  http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2019/kw/mixing%20uniforms/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ1NjI1OTMxNy9zaWQvcFhvLTFRSm0%3D

[Checotah]

A flight or service cap is part of the USAF-style uniform and not part of the Corporate/Distinctive uniform.  The mixing of those two is a "no-no".

I fully agree.  I did not mean to suggest that the USAF flight or service cap be worn with the Corporate uniform.  I simply meant that such an animal, in grey, perhaps, if approved, could be a useful item.  If authorized as an optional item, no additional costs need be incurred except as the member chooses.  Similarly, the USAF service cap can be either purchased or obtained through supply channels (comment for cost impact only).

[LTC Don]

I fully agree.  I did not mean to suggest that the USAF flight or service cap be worn with the Corporate uniform.  I simply meant that such an animal, in grey, perhaps, if approved, could be a useful item.  If authorized as an optional item, no additional costs need be incurred except as the member chooses.  Similarly, the USAF service cap can be either purchased or obtained through supply channels (comment for cost impact only).

The existing blue flight or service cap should be fine with the grey/white corporate uniform, and since many members already have at least the flight cap, there a savings there.  It worked well with the old CSU and would work fine now.  The need for headgear with the grey/whites is readily apparent.

[abdsp51]

I fully agree.  I did not mean to suggest that the USAF flight or service cap be worn with the Corporate uniform.  I simply meant that such an animal, in grey, perhaps, if approved, could be a useful item.  If authorized as an optional item, no additional costs need be incurred except as the member chooses.  Similarly, the USAF service cap can be either purchased or obtained through supply channels (comment for cost impact only).

The existing blue flight or service cap should be fine with the grey/white corporate uniform, and since many members already have at least the flight cap, there a savings there.  It worked well with the old CSU and would work fine now.  The need for headgear with the grey/whites is readily apparent.

Sir,

Need or want?  The manual already says a CAP specific ball cap may be worn. 

[THRAWN]

I fully agree.  I did not mean to suggest that the USAF flight or service cap be worn with the Corporate uniform.  I simply meant that such an animal, in grey, perhaps, if approved, could be a useful item.  If authorized as an optional item, no additional costs need be incurred except as the member chooses.  Similarly, the USAF service cap can be either purchased or obtained through supply channels (comment for cost impact only).

The existing blue flight or service cap should be fine with the grey/white corporate uniform, and since many members already have at least the flight cap, there a savings there.  It worked well with the old CSU and would work fine now.  The need for headgear with the grey/whites is readily apparent.

Sir,

Need or want?  The manual already says a CAP specific ball cap may be worn.

Exactly. This is an easy fix. Want a hat? Open the book and follow the rules. What's next?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I fully agree.  I did not mean to suggest that the USAF flight or service cap be worn with the Corporate uniform.  I simply meant that such an animal, in grey, perhaps, if approved, could be a useful item.  If authorized as an optional item, no additional costs need be incurred except as the member chooses.  Similarly, the USAF service cap can be either purchased or obtained through supply channels (comment for cost impact only).

The existing blue flight or service cap should be fine with the grey/white corporate uniform, and since many members already have at least the flight cap, there a savings there.  It worked well with the old CSU and would work fine now.  The need for headgear with the grey/whites is readily apparent.

Sir,

Need or want?  The manual already says a CAP specific ball cap may be worn.

It does not specify what a "CAP specific ball cap" is.

[THRAWN]

I fully agree.  I did not mean to suggest that the USAF flight or service cap be worn with the Corporate uniform.  I simply meant that such an animal, in grey, perhaps, if approved, could be a useful item.  If authorized as an optional item, no additional costs need be incurred except as the member chooses.  Similarly, the USAF service cap can be either purchased or obtained through supply channels (comment for cost impact only).

The existing blue flight or service cap should be fine with the grey/white corporate uniform, and since many members already have at least the flight cap, there a savings there.  It worked well with the old CSU and would work fine now.  The need for headgear with the grey/whites is readily apparent.

Sir,

Need or want?  The manual already says a CAP specific ball cap may be worn.

It does not specify what a "CAP specific ball cap" is.

Sure it does. Check 6.2.9 in 39-1. And it says nothing about a "CAP specific ball cap". It says "CAP baseball cap".

[vorteks]

In most places it says "The CAP Baseball cap." The "the" suggests a specific thing, yet nowhere is one defined.

[THRAWN]

In most places it says "The CAP Baseball cap." The "the" suggests a specific thing, yet nowhere is one defined.

Sure it is. In the places in the manual that state CAP baseball cap and are linked, it arrives here:

6.2.9. CAP Baseball Cap. Wing and region commanders may prescribe color, unit designation,
and/or emblem to be on the baseball cap. No rank insignia may be worn on this cap, and no emblems
(clouds, darts, etc.) may be worn on the cap visor.

Seems pretty simple. A black baseball cap fits. So does a red cap with the unit number embroidered on it. So does a green cap with a squadron patch on it. Check within your wing or region to see if there is a 39-1 supplement with specifics on the cap. If not, follow the rules in the book. Don't over think this. It ain't rocket surgery....

[Luis R. Ramos]

Bu-bu-but, but by that explanation you just gave us, we are back in the non-uniform uniform debate!?!!!

[N6RVT]

I fully agree.  I did not mean to suggest that the USAF flight or service cap be worn with the Corporate uniform.  I simply meant that such an animal, in grey, perhaps, if approved, could be a useful item.  If authorized as an optional item, no additional costs need be incurred except as the member chooses.  Similarly, the USAF service cap can be either purchased or obtained through supply channels (comment for cost impact only).

The existing blue flight or service cap should be fine with the grey/white corporate uniform, and since many members already have at least the flight cap, there a savings there.  It worked well with the old CSU and would work fine now.  The need for headgear with the grey/whites is readily apparent.

My squadron has several pictures from long ago where the blue flight & service caps are being worn with the shade 1050 Khakis and it looks fine.  We currently wear the blue flight cap with the sage green flight suit and those don't match either.  The USAF blue tie is specified as what is worn with the long sleeve aviator shirt according to current regs.  There is no need for a different hat, we could use what we currently have.

[LTC Don]

I fully agree.  I did not mean to suggest that the USAF flight or service cap be worn with the Corporate uniform.  I simply meant that such an animal, in grey, perhaps, if approved, could be a useful item.  If authorized as an optional item, no additional costs need be incurred except as the member chooses.  Similarly, the USAF service cap can be either purchased or obtained through supply channels (comment for cost impact only).

The existing blue flight or service cap should be fine with the grey/white corporate uniform, and since many members already have at least the flight cap, there a savings there.  It worked well with the old CSU and would work fine now.  The need for headgear with the grey/whites is readily apparent.

My squadron has several pictures from long ago where the blue flight & service caps are being worn with the shade 1050 Khakis and it looks fine.  We currently wear the blue flight cap with the sage green flight suit and those don't match either.  The USAF blue tie is specified as what is worn with the long sleeve aviator shirt according to current regs.  There is no need for a different hat, we could use what we currently have.

I'm not wearing a baseball cap with my white long-sleeve aviator shirt with tie along with ribbons/bling.  We need, and have needed a more appropriate hat than the 'baseball cap'.  In this respect, the not-so-old CSU uniform had it right.

[vorteks]

In most places it says "The CAP Baseball cap." The "the" suggests a specific thing, yet nowhere is one defined.

Sure it is. In the places in the manual that state CAP baseball cap and are linked, it arrives here:

6.2.9. CAP Baseball Cap. Wing and region commanders may prescribe color, unit designation,
and/or emblem to be on the baseball cap. No rank insignia may be worn on this cap, and no emblems
(clouds, darts, etc.) may be worn on the cap visor.

Seems pretty simple. A black baseball cap fits. So does a red cap with the unit number embroidered on it. So does a green cap with a squadron patch on it. Check within your wing or region to see if there is a 39-1 supplement with specifics on the cap. If not, follow the rules in the book. Don't over think this. It ain't rocket surgery....

Exactly, there is no "The CAP baseball cap."