Non-Member Award for Outstanding Contributions

[Ned]

I need some help with a project . . .

Over the years a number of non-members and former members have performed exceptional services to CAP.  Examples are legion, but just a couple personally affecting my work include famous strategists and business professionals who command thousands of dollars per lecture to business organizations, but who return year after year to lecture to COS students for free.  Or military members who have founded and guided certain NCSAs for years, investing hundreds of hours into the betterment of our troops.

I'm sure many of you have even better examples.

But the only awards in the 39-3 that can be given to non-members appears to be various flavors of "Certificate of Appreciation" described in paragraph 53.

Without taking anything away from selfless individuals and organizations that have received Certificates of Appreciation from us in the past, giving a Certificate of Appreciation for significant accomplishments that affect CAP at a wing, region, or national level seems to lack a certain gravitas and prestige.

So, I am developing a proposal for one or more awards designed to be given to non-members who make signicant contributions to CAP.

My thinking so far:

• Only non members should be eligible.  Former members can be eligible, but only for services performed while not a member of CAP.  Current and former BoG members are also excluded for services performed as part of the BoG.
  
  
• The award elements should include not only a certificate, but also some other tangible thing, like a full size medal, or similar doodad / trinket.  (Since by definition this will go to non-members, please don't turn this into a uniform thread by speculating how such a medal would be worn on a uniform.  Please.)
  
  
  Naming of the award is critical.  I want it to sound important on the recipient's CV. 
  
  My first thought was to name it after some famous non-member who has performed services for CAP.  But I couldn't think of anyone besides Gen Jimmy Stewart and Jerry Lewis, both of whom did CAP promos many decades ago.  And I suspect we would have trouble getting naming rights from Jerry (who is nearing 90) or Gen Stewart's estate.  I'm hoping your memories will be better.
  
  It doesn't have to be named for an individual, of course.  It could be something like The CAP Medal of Freedom or the CAP Legion of Merit.  Or whatever.
  
  
  So, help me out.
  
  1.  Is this worthwhile?  Will it add value to CAP?
  
  2.  If this is a good idea, what should we call it?
  
  3.  Should it have multiple levels, corresponding to wing, region, and national-level support?
  
  4.  Would it mean the end of the Certificates of Appreciation?
  
  5.  As an alternative, should we simply change the reg and allow the Meritorious, Exceptional, and Distinguished Service Awards to be presented to non-members?
  
  
  Let's kick this around a bit.  I appreciate you input and assistance.
  
  (Remember, don't make this a uniform thread.     )
  
  
  [edit: I managed to fat finger which of Gen Stewart and Jerry Lewis was alive.  Sincere apologies.]

[DoubleSecret]

As an alternative, should we simply change the reg and allow the Meritorious, Exceptional, and Distinguished Service Awards to be presented to non-members?

I think this is probably the best route.  Widen the scope of the existing process, and presto.  Avoid the Legion of Merit, as that is a significant DoD decoration and we don't want to step on those toes.

Regarding naming the award after a person:  I think there are a lot of CAP award recipients who couldn't give a decent capsule bio of all the persons after whom the awards they wear are named.  As an institution, I think we overdo the "named-after" thing.  There's also the risk of naming an award after someone who subsequently faces a PR nightmare.  The USAF had to "un-name" its First Sergeant of the Year award when the "named-after" person's military career turned out to be significantly embellished.  The Navy recently rescinded Bill Cosby's status as an honorary chief petty officer due to the allegations facing him.  I'd hate for CAP to face that sort of issue.

P.S.  Respectfully, I think Gen Stewart is the one with the estate and Mr. Lewis is the one nearing 90.

[RiverAux]

It depends on how difficult you want this to be -- if it is only intended to be given to people making contributions at the national level, then it isn't worth it.  Too few people would be impacted to be worth all the trouble of coming up with the award. 

Now, if this is something that could be given to someone making a significant contribution even down at the squadron level, then I might get on board with it as I do agree that a generic Certificate of Appreciation isn't much of a reward for those that really do an awful lot.  However, even if given at the squadron level, I would want the standards to be very, very high to avoid giving one to every person on the local city council, for example. 

[James Shaw]

I need some help with a project . . .

Over the years a number of non-members and former members have performed exceptional services to CAP.  Examples are legion, but just a couple personally affecting my work include famous strategists and business professionals who command thousands of dollars per lecture to business organizations, but who return year after year to lecture to COS students for free.  Or military members who have founded and guided certain NCSAs for years, investing hundreds of hours into the betterment of our troops.

I'm sure many of you have even better examples.

But the only awards in the 39-3 that can be given to non-members appears to be various flavors of "Certificate of Appreciation" described in paragraph 53.

Without taking anything away from selfless individuals and organizations that have received Certificates of Appreciation from us in the past, giving a Certificate of Appreciation for significant accomplishments that affect CAP at a wing, region, or national level seems to lack a certain gravitas and prestige.

So, I am developing a proposal for one or more awards designed to be given to non-members who make signicant contributions to CAP.

My thinking so far:

• Only non members should be eligible.  Former members can be eligible, but only for services performed while not a member of CAP.  Current and former BoG members are also excluded for services performed as part of the BoG.
  
  
• The award elements should include not only a certificate, but also some other tangible thing, like a full size medal, or similar doodad / trinket.  (Since by definition this will go to non-members, please don't turn this into a uniform thread by speculating how such a medal would be worn on a uniform.  Please.)
  
  
  Naming of the award is critical.  I want it to sound important on the recipient's CV. 
  
  My first thought was to name it after some famous non-member who has performed services for CAP.  But I couldn't think of anyone besides Gen Jimmy Stewart and Jerry Lewis, both of whom did CAP promos many decades ago.  And I suspect we would have trouble getting naming rights from Jerry (who is nearing 90) or Gen Stewart's estate.  I'm hoping your memories will be better.
  
  It doesn't have to be named for an individual, of course.  It could be something like The CAP Medal of Freedom or the CAP Legion of Merit.  Or whatever.
  
  
  So, help me out.
  
  1.  Is this worthwhile?  Will it add value to CAP?
  
  2.  If this is a good idea, what should we call it?
  
  3.  Should it have multiple levels, corresponding to wing, region, and national-level support?
  
  4.  Would it mean the end of the Certificates of Appreciation?
  
  5.  As an alternative, should we simply change the reg and allow the Meritorious, Exceptional, and Distinguished Service Awards to be presented to non-members?
  
  
  Let's kick this around a bit.  I appreciate you input and assistance.
  
  (Remember, don't make this a uniform thread.     )
  
  
  [edit: I managed to fat finger which of Gen Stewart and Jerry Lewis was alive.  Sincere apologies.]
  

Has this former Historians creative gears turning.....

[ZigZag911]

Just off the top of my head, how about naming it for Fiorello LaGuardia, former mayor of New York who was instrumental in founding of CAP...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Just off the top of my head, how about naming it for Fiorello LaGuardia, former mayor of New York who was instrumental in founding of CAP...

That's a good one as far as names go.

That said, the scope of this is a problem. And tiers if awards....may be as well. But a Bronze/Silver/Gold?

Bronze for Unit/Group, Silver for Wing/Region, Gold for National?

I'd do a nice 11x17 certificate. Not printed locally, but like the Cadet Awards, nice from NHQ?

[James Shaw]

This is one I did for Gen Courter to present to a descendent of the Curry Family.

The chess board was done for a retiring GP President.

Do something unique for each person. Their gift should reflect the uniqueness of their contribution.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Eclipse]

I understand the sentiment, but I doubt few of the people deserving of this type of award would
think about it much past dinner that night, or add it to a resume.

I would stick with the plaques. handshakes, and challenge coins, etc.

One issue you set yourself up for with structured awards is that they have "criteria" and need approval.
Which means they can also be disapproved on a whim.

Then you're in the same boat as many members find themselves in "Hey, thanks for burning a
week a year for a decade flying cadets on on your nickel.  We put you in for a Laguardia, but Region said "no".

[Private Investigator]

I like the, "The CAP Medal of Freedom". At the NHQ level it should be something impressive. I would like to see a full size medal on a suspension ribbon to go around the neck.

I also like the Jimmy Stewart suggestion. I like Bob Hope just because he did so much for America, but that is a Veteran's opinion.

Locally I like giving out Certificates of Appreciation to our local benefactors. Like Frank at Frank's Towing or American Legion Post #776. So that should remain an option.   

[lordmonar]

I understand the sentiment, but I doubt few of the people deserving of this type of award would
think about it much past dinner that night, or add it to a resume.

And?  Just because it is a fleeting thank you......it is at least a thank you.   I mean an Oscar is just a gold man on a black base.....in the long run it may not mean anything.

I would stick with the plaques. handshakes, and challenge coins, etc.

Those are all good things.....but sometimes that may not be enough.   

[quotte]One issue you set yourself up for with structured awards is that they have "criteria" and need approval.
Which means they can also be disapproved on a whim.[/quote]
True.....or maybe we can trust our leaders to do the right thing and not disapprove on a whim.....and we can always fight for it to our leaders.

Then you're in the same boat as many members find themselves in "Hey, thanks for burning a
week a year for a decade flying cadets on on your nickel.  We put you in for a Laguardia, but Region said "no".

If region is wrong......you go to National and make your case.

[flyboy53]

I think its in poor taste to give a non-CAP person a CAP decoration of some sort.

That's what certificates and fancy plaques or trophies are all about. Create something formal like that or just go to the local trophy shop and create something.

In the long run, it's probably cheaper, too, but won't be uniform organization-wide.

[NIN]

Honestly, I think the concept is that the non-member's contribution to the organization should be of "widespread impact" (ie. at the regional or national level) and of a nature that is more than just a straight up "thank you," and more than a "here's an 8.5x11 certificate for you to throw away."

I'm not talking "the mayor intervened on the Podunk Cadet Squadron's behalf and now they can meet at the fire station."  Or "Thanks so much for coming to our unit open house, county commissioner, here, have a bauble and nice certificate.."

No, I think what Ned's suggesting is something a little more broad reaching than that.

A senior vice president of American Airlines sets up a program to allow the airline to donate x flight vouchers per year for cadets to travel to IACE year after year.  Or better yet, sets up an industry-wide deal that allows United, American, Delta, Southwest and Jet Blue to all do the same thing to help out Civil Air Patrol cadets and IACE. That sounds like an Exceptional-type award, more than just "Hey, wow, thanks SVP Smith. Here's a kitschy certificate of appreciation, cuz you do know that we appreciate this, right? Right?"

Whether thats the "LaGuardia Trophy for Outstanding Assistance to the Civil Air Patrol," or "Here's an Exceptional Service Award from Civil Air Patrol recognizing your long-term committment to our organization" is kind of immaterial.  (and honestly,  more of this is in the way its handled/written up than in what the award is called.  If you write "Mr. Smithers assisted CAP by giving us a bunch of stuff, some of which was really cool..." then you need a kick in the head. However, if you write "Mr. Tim Smithers, in his role as the regional vice president for operations for Flight Safety International, was instrumental in securing the over $450,000 in in-kind and monetary contributions to manage and run the Airline Operations National Cadet Special Activity for the last 4 years, and in doing so has ensured that this activity will continue to provide an opportunity for Civil Air Patrol cadets to experience and learn about airline ops for many years to come" then maybe, just maybe you're talking about the level of gravitas for an award that Ned's proposing.

Maybe there is a longer-term (I can't remember the term for it.. You know, like the Stanley Cup or something) award that remains on display in the foyer at NHQ but recognizes the contributions to Civil Air Patrol of non-members.  They get presented with this award at National Board, but the actual "award element" is a perpetual trophy (that was the term I was looking for) that remains with CAP, but the awardee's name is engraved on a plate or on the trophy itself.

[James Shaw]

Personally I don't think it should be named after an individual. I think it would be better to associate it with something that is relevant to CAP. So here is an idea.

If the recognition is supposed to highlight contributions to CAP on a Organization Scale then it could be named for something that has to do with all 3 missions.

CAMBER - The Civil Air Patrol CAMBER Award

Citizens
And
Members
Building
Effective
Resources

This could be a single piece of Crystal that is shaped like the side profile of a wing with the Persons or Organizations Name and whatever else they deem appropriate. It could be mounted on a nice marble, granite, or glass base.

ducking and diving the evil looks 

[jeders]

Personally I don't think it should be named after an individual. I think it would be better to associate it with something that is relevant to CAP. So here is an idea.

If the recognition is supposed to highlight contributions to CAP on a Organization Scale then it could be named for something that has to do with all 3 missions.

CAMBER - The Civil Air Patrol CAMBER Award

Citizens
And
Members
Building
Effective
Resources

This could be a single piece of Crystal that is shaped like the side profile of a wing with the Persons or Organizations Name and whatever else they deem appropriate. It could be mounted on a nice marble, granite, or glass base.

ducking and diving the evil looks 

I really like that, actually. I think maybe a combination of NIN and your ideas of the award element might be nice also. A permanent trophy with each recipients name engraved on a small plaque on the bottom, and then a small award "trinket" for the actual recipient.

[NIN]

ducking and diving the evil looks 

You know, thats not a bad idea. Clever. No evil looks.

[Eclipse]

That's really not bad at all...

[Storm Chaser]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

[NIN]

There might be a need to consider an award for an individual and an award for an organization.

So maybe Tim Smithers, the SVP for Ops for Flight Safety spearheaded some kind of grant/activity/ongoing support arrangement for an NCSA, but at the end of the day, it really is Flight Safety that might be actually footing the bill and providing corporate resources for this activity or event.  So maybe its actually an award to Flight Safety International, not Tim Smithers.

there are any number of organizational-level thank yous that a non-profit wants to make, and not just to people but to other organizations. Cessna, maybe. Boeing.  AA. Frontier, etc.  "industry partners" is one aspect, but that only goes so far.   Its one thing to recognize a "partner" from a marketing, branding, support or awareness standpoint. Its entirely another to single them out for praise and accolade for a specific thing.  We spend a lot of dollars with Cessna, for example, so they're a "partner" so to speak, but if they did something like did all the legwork for getting an STC for sensor ball installation and helped fund that for the entire fleet (or offered to do the mod at the factory for the cost of parts) that might rise to the level of an actual "holy cow, look how Cessna went out of their way to do a solid for CAP!" award.

[NIN]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

Camber = the amount of curvature of an airfoil.

Aviation folks would get that right off.

[THRAWN]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

And the AEPSM fails again...

[THRAWN]

There might be a need to consider an award for an individual and an award for an organization.

So maybe Tim Smithers, the SVP for Ops for Flight Safety spearheaded some kind of grant/activity/ongoing support arrangement for an NCSA, but at the end of the day, it really is Flight Safety that might be actually footing the bill and providing corporate resources for this activity or event.  So maybe its actually an award to Flight Safety International, not Tim Smithers.

there are any number of organizational-level thank yous that a non-profit wants to make, and not just to people but to other organizations. Cessna, maybe. Boeing.  AA. Frontier, etc.  "industry partners" is one aspect, but that only goes so far.   Its one thing to recognize a "partner" from a marketing, branding, support or awareness standpoint. Its entirely another to single them out for praise and accolade for a specific thing.  We spend a lot of dollars with Cessna, for example, so they're a "partner" so to speak, but if they did something like did all the legwork for getting an STC for sensor ball installation and helped fund that for the entire fleet (or offered to do the mod at the factory for the cost of parts) that might rise to the level of an actual "holy cow, look how Cessna went out of their way to do a solid for CAP!" award.

Probably a good idea. Looking at the awards programs of the various federal agencies, this is the typical pattern. Awards are made to both individuals and groups/teams. Having a wing/region/national level award and recognizing individuals and groups seems to fit the intent.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

And the AEPSM fails again...

It's a ribbon test...

[THRAWN]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

And the AEPSM fails again...

It's a ribbon test...

In some places. Some others actually teach some of the material that is on the test. It aids in passing.

[Storm Chaser]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

Camber = the amount of curvature of an airfoil.

Aviation folks would get that right off.

From Wikipedia: Camber

[Майор Хаткевич]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

And the AEPSM fails again...

It's a ribbon test...

In some places. Some others actually teach some of the material that is on the test. It aids in passing.

Right...So...A ribbon test...

[THRAWN]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

Camber = the amount of curvature of an airfoil.

Aviation folks would get that right off.

From Wikipedia: Camber

Since we don't deal in ships, roads, bikes or musical instruments, which of those definitions do you think would apply?

[Alaric]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

and a major character in a series of books by Katherine Kurtz 

[Storm Chaser]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

Camber = the amount of curvature of an airfoil.

Aviation folks would get that right off.

From Wikipedia: Camber

Since we don't deal in ships, roads, bikes or musical instruments, which of those definitions do you think would apply?

Does it matter? You're making the assumption that all recipients would be familiar with this term. Besides, even if they were, why would you want to name an award for significant contribution to CAP after "the amount of curvature of an airfoil", which by the way is not inspirational at all nor has anything to do with the proposed phrase in that acronym. Passed.

[Eclipse]

For most people, the only time they ever hear the term "Camber" is when some oil change place
is trying to upsell-them on an alignment they don't need on their car.

With that said, I would think people helping CAP would be more inclined towards aviation and understand the
meaning.

Otherwise there are initialism and jargon generators you can throw words into to make something up.

"the amount of curvature of an airfoil", which by the way is not inspirational at all

I would say that depends on your viewpoint, literally.

If you're inside an aircraft with an airfoil of the wrong curvature, or one which has recently been
forcefully adjusted, things could get quite "inspirational" quickly.

"CAMBER" is a good start, though there are plenty of other words in the language and lexicon.

[THRAWN]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

Camber = the amount of curvature of an airfoil.

Aviation folks would get that right off.

From Wikipedia: Camber

Since we don't deal in ships, roads, bikes or musical instruments, which of those definitions do you think would apply?

Does it matter? You're making the assumption that all recipients would be familiar with this term. Besides, even if they were, why would you want to name an award for significant contribution to CAP after "the amount of curvature of an airfoil", which by the way is not inspirational at all nor has anything to do with the proposed phrase in that acronym. Passed.

It is an aviation term. And in this case it is an arcing structure that holds up, or supports, the organization. Have another suggestion?

[Eclipse]

How about the "Four Forces Award" for "Increasing Lift, & Thrust" or "Reducing Gravity and Drag" (etc)?

Other suggestions:

Tailwind Award.

Silver Wings of Volition

[ProdigalJim]

1.  Is this worthwhile?  Will it add value to CAP?

Yes, very worthwhile; it will add value to CAP in many ways, not least of which acknowledging sustained contributions made on a wide scope by those who have even less incentive to serve than members themselves. It will also, selfishly, offer PR value; recipients are often quite pleased and proud to have won an award, and companies will often highlight that award in multiple ways. Which gives us a shine and also potentially attracts more help from more corners.

2.  If this is a good idea, what should we call it?

Not a fan of the Legion of Merit or Medal of Freedom, esp Medal of Freedom. I like the CAMBER idea earlier in the thread, but it feels a bit marketing-y, but a great direction. I'd work along those lines.

3.  Should it have multiple levels, corresponding to wing, region, and national-level support?

Yes, but no deeper than Wing. I disagree with the notion of making this a squadron-level award. If the service is important enough to warrant more than a Certificate of Appreciation and a squadron mug or plaque, then it's probably by definition at least Wing in scope.

4.  Would it mean the end of the Certificates of Appreciation?

No, not at all. They can be used for lesser achievements, and for squadron-level awards. Conversely, there's nothing in the regs today stopping a squadron from doing something nicer than a Certificate of Appreciation.

5.  As an alternative, should we simply change the reg and allow the Meritorious, Exceptional, and Distinguished Service Awards to be presented to non-members?

Absolutely not. These are the only true "decs" our members are eligible to earn, and giving them outside the organization diminishes them.

[ZigZag911]

Unit or Group (maybe even wing) levels I agree, limit to certificate, coin or plaque.

This award should be limited to region or national (I'm open to discussing wing).

And it should be for either some single instance that truly rises to the spectacular, or a 'lifetime" recognition for strong, consistent support over a significant number of years...five to ten, at least.

[Private Investigator]

I don't like the idea of an award named after an acronym who most prospective recipients will not be familiar with. Besides, Camber has multiple meanings to include being the name of a place in England and the name of corporation in Huntsville, AL.

And the AEPSM fails again...

It's a ribbon test...

In some places. Some others actually teach some of the material that is on the test. It aids in passing.

Right...So...A ribbon test...

I agree with THRAWN; some units teach AE and do a exception job at it. Other units think they are "too cool for school" and are rangers or some other uber ES or CP types, JMHO YMMV 

[Private Investigator]

... the "LaGuardia Trophy for Outstanding Assistance to the Civil Air Patrol,"

Now that sounds good to me on the National level.

CAMBER? Not even close to LaGuardia, or the Gill Robb Wilson Trophy, Jimmy Stewart and/or Bob Hope "tanks for the memories" Trophy! 

[jeders]

One issue you set yourself up for with structured awards is that they have "criteria" and need approval.
Which means they can also be disapproved on a whim.

Then you're in the same boat as many members find themselves in "Hey, thanks for burning a
week a year for a decade flying cadets on on your nickel.  We put you in for a Laguardia, but Region said "no".

I think the best way to handle this issue is to consolidate approval for the CAMBER (I like it, so there) Award at either the National Awards Committee (I assume there's a permanent one of those) or the BoG. Every request goes direct to the approving authority without going through multiple levels of approval. That way, the same award criteria are being applies by the same people.

[lordmonar]

The La Guardia Award is beginning to grow on me.

It has significance to CAP......La Guardia was instrumental to CAP's formation.
It has significance to Outsiders......La Guardia is famous at least for having an airport named after him.
It has relevance to the award.....La Guardia was instrumental to CAP while not actually being a member of CAP.

I hate CAMBER....because it is too much like Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division or Airborne real-time cueing hyperspectral enhanced reconnaissance.

[Storm Chaser]

+1. The La Guardia Award has much more significance and conveys a much stronger message.

[James Shaw]

I am sure CAP could get permission from the LaGuardia Foundation to do that. They would probably like the association.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[LSThiker]

Which raises the question why LaGuardia among other important CAP figures never had awards named after them in the past?  We have a Wilson Award for level 5, but LaGuardia was not used.

[ZigZag911]

Probably because GIll Robb Wilson was actually a member of CAP...most of our other awards were named for aviation pioneers of one sort or another...I specifically suggested LaGuardia for this because it is also descriptive of his role:  a non-member who made a highly important contribution to CAP.

Glad to see its gaining some traction here on CT!

[ProdigalJim]

Concur. LaGuardia Trophy is a great idea, head-and-shoulders above the rest. Like the Collier or similar, there could be one large trophy at NHQ, with names/orgs added each year, and a small replica presented to the recipient, with a nice parchment certificate. Maybe a matching lapel pin, since you can't carry the trophy around with you.

And Mr. Mayor's story is exactly relevant to the purpose of the award. Love it!

[Eclipse]

Just re-read his bio, you'll have a hard time finding some who fits the bill better.

[NIN]

Just re-read his bio, you'll have a hard time finding some who fits the bill better.

Be careful, or we might find out it was actually LaGuardia's assistant, Madge, who signed the order from the Office of Civilian Defense that created CAP...

[Eclipse]

Just re-read his bio, you'll have a hard time finding some who fits the bill better.

Be careful, or we might find out it was actually LaGuardia's assistant, Madge, who signed the order from the Office of Civilian Defense that created CAP...

A rabbit hole best left to darkness...

[Storm Chaser]

Just re-read his bio, you'll have a hard time finding some who fits the bill better.

Be careful, or we might find out it was actually LaGuardia's assistant, Madge, who signed the order from the Office of Civilian Defense that created CAP...

Even if true, that doesn't diminish LaGuardia's contributions.

[NIN]

Be careful, or we might find out it was actually LaGuardia's assistant, Madge, who signed the order from the Office of Civilian Defense that created CAP...

Even if true, that doesn't diminish LaGuardia's contributions.

Wooosh...

"I said to Hollywood 'where'd he go?' and Hollywood said 'Where'd who go!?'."

[a2capt]

A rabbit hole best left to darkness...

Like the sub sinkings?

[Private Investigator]

Just re-read his bio, you'll have a hard time finding some who fits the bill better.

Be careful, or we might find out it was actually LaGuardia's assistant, Madge, who signed the order from the Office of Civilian Defense that created CAP...

How you know Madge did not pass it to her clerk, Shirley and told her to take it to Publications and once their they said, "it is not signed!" and Shirley just scribbed on it and it was a done deal.  Just hysterical history for us all.   

[SarDragon]

Hey, guys, does Ned's idea really deserve this?

[NIN]

Hey, guys, does Ned's idea really deserve this?

OK, back on track. Dave's got a point. I apologize for derailing.

[Private Investigator]

What about the Zack Mosley Trophy? He brought CAP to the masses weekly in his cartoon strip. 

[Ned]

Hey historians - was Zack ever a member?  His Wikipedia bio says he flew on multiple CAP anti sub patrols, but I suppose he could have been some sort of VIP non-member based on all of the exposure he gave us in his Smilin Jack comic strip.

Anyone know for sure one way or another?

[LSThiker]

Hey historians - was Zack ever a member?  His Wikipedia bio says he flew on multiple CAP anti sub patrols, but I suppose he could have been some sort of VIP non-member based on all of the exposure he gave us in his Smilin Jack comic strip.

Anyone know for sure one way or another?

Yes, he was a past FLWG/CC:

http://2013.flwg.us/information/archives/biographies/zack-mosley.aspx

[lordmonar]

I was thinking about the award....one of the aspect that came up is scope.

A non-member who is instrumental at the unit level vs someone at the national level.

If we did it like the legion of merit is done on AD.   Make it like a Order of Chivalry with different "ranks" with different ribbons and devices.


Legionnaire 2d Class for squadron.
Legionnaire 1st Class for Group
Officer for Wing
Commander for Region
Chief Commander for National

So....some one does something good for a squadron....the Squadron CC submits the 120 to the approving authroity.....and they are inducted into the Order of Leguardia (or the order of Mosley) as a Legionnaire 2d Class.

Someone donates a billion dollars and he is inducted as Chief Commander of the Order of XXXXX with all the pomp and circumstance we can come up with.

Make it a big deal....it becomes a big deal.

[Shuman 14]

I have to say MSgt, I really like your Idea. The Order of Leguardia really has a nice ring to it... it sings.  :clap:

I Also like the idea of a National Trophy, awarded every year, with the awardee's name inscribed on it and displayed at National HQ.

So if we could is we could combine the National Trophy/Chief Commander into one I'd think that would be the best of both worlds. Give at least one a year and more if there is a second (or more) awardee truly due one and inscribe all the names as they are awarded.

My other suggestion is to make Patron members eligible for it. If a Patron donates a billion dollars, I don't think its fair that because he/she also gave $25.00 in dues it should exclude him/her from the award.

[Nuke52]

My other suggestion is to make Patron members eligible for it. If a Patron donates a billion dollars, I don't think its fair that because he/she also gave $25.00 in dues it should exclude him/her from the award.

Outstanding idea--I know just the patron we all have in mind!  Congratulations, shuman!  (BTW, when can we expect your (additional) check to clear?)

So are you like the self-appointed patron saint of patron members or something?   

[a2capt]

If a Patron member gave a billion dollars ..  I think there would be a lot more press than a plate on a trophy.

[FW]

1.  Is this worthwhile?  Will it add value to CAP?

Yes, very worthwhile; it will add value to CAP in many ways, not least of which acknowledging sustained contributions made on a wide scope by those who have even less incentive to serve than members themselves. It will also, selfishly, offer PR value; recipients are often quite pleased and proud to have won an award, and companies will often highlight that award in multiple ways. Which gives us a shine and also potentially attracts more help from more corners.

2.  If this is a good idea, what should we call it?

Not a fan of the Legion of Merit or Medal of Freedom, esp Medal of Freedom. I like the CAMBER idea earlier in the thread, but it feels a bit marketing-y, but a great direction. I'd work along those lines.

3.  Should it have multiple levels, corresponding to wing, region, and national-level support?

Yes, but no deeper than Wing. I disagree with the notion of making this a squadron-level award. If the service is important enough to warrant more than a Certificate of Appreciation and a squadron mug or plaque, then it's probably by definition at least Wing in scope.

4.  Would it mean the end of the Certificates of Appreciation?

No, not at all. They can be used for lesser achievements, and for squadron-level awards. Conversely, there's nothing in the regs today stopping a squadron from doing something nicer than a Certificate of Appreciation.

5.  As an alternative, should we simply change the reg and allow the Meritorious, Exceptional, and Distinguished Service Awards to be presented to non-members?

Absolutely not. These are the only true "decs" our members are eligible to earn, and giving them outside the organization diminishes them.

I agree.  This idea does deserve an honest hearing, however I wonder why our "Development Office" isn't dealing with this.  CAP "Friendraising" efforts have not borne much fruit, IMHO.  Growth is still stagnant, outside sources of funds; not significant to talk about, and our credibility outside a very small circle hasn't changed one bit. 

If awarding a Non-Member for Outstanding Contributions to CAP will bring anything positive to the table, I'm all in.  But,  I rather spend our limited resources on building a solid "Outstanding Non-Member Contribution" base which will enable CAP to soar.  Maybe they should go hand in hand?

[Eclipse]

If a Patron member gave a billion dollars ..  I think there would be a lot more press than a plate on a trophy.

Any Patron or other contributor giving CAP a billion dollars gets advanced to active member, promotion to Admiral,
and a free Cessna at his disposal for life.

[Shuman 14]

My other suggestion is to make Patron members eligible for it. If a Patron donates a billion dollars, I don't think its fair that because he/she also gave $25.00 in dues it should exclude him/her from the award.

Outstanding idea--I know just the patron we all have in mind!  Congratulations, shuman!  (BTW, when can we expect your (additional) check to clear?)

So are you like the self-appointed patron saint of patron members or something?   

Check is in the mail Sir. 

[Private Investigator]

My other suggestion is to make Patron members eligible for it. If a Patron donates a billion dollars, I don't think its fair that because he/she also gave $25.00 in dues it should exclude him/her from the award.

Outstanding idea--I know just the patron we all have in mind!  Congratulations, shuman!  (BTW, when can we expect your (additional) check to clear?)

So are you like the self-appointed patron saint of patron members or something?   

Check is in the mail Sir. 

Thank you sir  :clap:

[Shuman 14]

My other suggestion is to make Patron members eligible for it. If a Patron donates a billion dollars, I don't think its fair that because he/she also gave $25.00 in dues it should exclude him/her from the award.

Outstanding idea--I know just the patron we all have in mind!  Congratulations, shuman!  (BTW, when can we expect your (additional) check to clear?)

So are you like the self-appointed patron saint of patron members or something?   

Check is in the mail Sir. 

Thank you sir  :clap:

I forgot to mention, it's in Ruritanian Dollars... they're worth 2.5E-11 to the American Dollar. 

[Bobble]

I have to say MSgt, I really like your Idea. The Order of Leguardia really has a nice ring to it... it sings.  :clap:

I Also like the idea of a National Trophy, awarded every year, with the awardee's name inscribed on it and displayed at National HQ.

So if we could is we could combine the National Trophy/Chief Commander into one I'd think that would be the best of both worlds. Give at least one a year and more if there is a second (or more) awardee truly due one and inscribe all the names as they are awarded.

My other suggestion is to make Patron members eligible for it. If a Patron donates a billion dollars, I don't think its fair that because he/she also gave $25.00 in dues it should exclude him/her from the award.

Hey, wait a minute, what happened to the "Shuman Award" ribbon we were talking about? -
   
Since you asked ...

A Patron Membership ribbon, aka the Shuman Award.


  :clap:

While I see your humor and enjoy it, it's actually not a bad idea.

I don't know how many Patrons add, drop-off and/or rejoin each year but giving them a small token (like a ribbon/medal and a certificate) might (coulda, woulda, shoulda) stimulate renewal and maybe even stimulate some new patronage.

If that adds too much for processing costs, raise the patronage dues to say $35-40 USC to cover it.

Not good enough?  A ribbon that can't be worn for a uniform that can't be worn?

"If a Patron donates a billion dollars, I don't think its fair that because he/she also gave $25.00 in dues it should exclude him/her from the award."

Let's take that thought to its' logical conclusion and we'll find that anyone (including active members) should be eligible to have their name engraved on this proposed "National Trophy Cup" based on the size of their monetary contribution.   Placed in a lighted glass cabinet somewhere at NHQ where no one except CAP members, employees and the occasional visitor will ever see it.

Instead, here's my idea.  Let's put the naming rights to Groups and Squadrons out for bid for both individuals and businesses/corporations.  Just as the naming rights to arenas and stadiums are sold, we could easily do the same with our organizational components.  I don't think that it's too far-fetched of an idea.  From what I've heard, the naming rights to sporting facilities (and even for facilities like libraries at private Colleges and Universities) are contractually written to last a specific amount of time, not for perpetuity, so that the process would generate funds on a continual basis.  We could even have the "sponsor's" name/title embroidered on the backs of our utility uniform blouses, just like Little League teams -

http://www.littleleague.org/media/llnewsarchive/Unknown_Dates/local_sponsorship.htm

Of course, that would be after CAP ditches the AF style uniform for all members.

I look forward in the near future to being a member of Clune Group, Shuman Squadron. Just as soon as National cashes that check for 1B Ruritanian dollars.  Of course, if that check kites, it might end up being Fuddrucker's Group, Hooter's Squadron.

[SarDragon]

Again, does Ned's idea really deserve this? 

[FW]

Dave, this IS CAP Talk...
Seriously, Ned's idea is worth consideration.  We used to have the Scott Crossfield Award.  The family decided to pack up and take their marbles elsewhere.  We have Brewer award for AE educators and outside organizations now.  I'm sure we can fit another award in for those who deserve it, however I don't know why this isn't being handled by staff. Then, again, we have Patron members with those Bizillion Buck Checks... :angel:

[Ned]

Keep it going, guys.  This is actually a great deal of help.

Some quick responses . . .

. . . however I don't know why this isn't being handled by staff

Fred, FWIW, I am "the staff,"  at least one small part of it.  From my perch here in CP, it appears we have a need for such a thing, and I am putting together a packet for formal staff coordination and eventually for the leadership's consideration.  It is always interesting to see what changes the leadership adds to a project, and in this particular case, they will have a great deal of latitude.  But I want to make sure that they are provided a solid proposal to begin with.

I have indeed coordinated with Dr. Dothrow on the development end of things. That's just part of staff work.  I've also some some preliminary coordinated with Susie P., and the GC.  Among others.

And the point of this thread is to solicit comments and suggestions of the membership.  And it has been terrific.  I simply hadn't considered either Mosley or LaGuardia.  I've been backchanneling with a few historians, and it has become a great learning experience.

Now if I could just find a monograph that lays out LaGuardia's role more completely . . .

[MisterCD]

Keep it going, guys.  This is actually a great deal of help.

Some quick responses . . .

. . . however I don't know why this isn't being handled by staff

Fred, FWIW, I am "the staff,"  at least one small part of it.  From my perch here in CP, it appears we have a need for such a thing, and I am putting together a packet for formal staff coordination and eventually for the leadership's consideration.  It is always interesting to see what changes the leadership adds to a project, and in this particular case, they will have a great deal of latitude.  But I want to make sure that they are provided a solid proposal to begin with.

I have indeed coordinated with Dr. Dothrow on the development end of things. That's just part of staff work.  I've also some some preliminary coordinated with Susie P., and the GC.  Among others.

And the point of this thread is to solicit comments and suggestions of the membership.  And it has been terrific.  I simply hadn't considered either Mosley or LaGuardia.  I've been backchanneling with a few historians, and it has become a great learning experience.

Now if I could just find a monograph that lays out LaGuardia's role more completely . . .

All you have to do is ask or shoot me an email.

[Mitchell 1969]

A couple of thoughts regarding the "Bronze LaGuardia Award First Class for Camber Excellence" -

1. The scope needs to be defined. Specifically, is this going to be like the Air Force Association Awards, with one recipient for each in any year? Or a much wider distribution?  If nothing else, that will help decide the cost - making one super nice custom trophy is do-able, but supplying 300 not so much.

2. The point has been made as to differences between individual recognition and group recognition. A case in point - I received a federal award at my city level job. I wasn't expecting it, but it was nice to be selected. When I went to accept it, it was engraved to my organization. Proud as I was of my organization, the fact was that I personally didn't get anything, even though that was the intent of the person nominating me. When I retired, I left it there - I didn't see it as being mine.

Conversely - I accepted another award at an event on behalf of my organization being recognized. Yep. Had my name on it. It gave the appearance of being presented for personal achievement, when the reality was that I was simply the boss and the guy who showed up to listen to the speeches and enjoy the rubber chicken. I left that behind, as well, but got a phone call every 4-6 months for a few years from somebody asking me "Do you want us to ship your award that you left?"

I guess what I'm saying is that murkiness doesn't help. Neither do intentions. So, make sure it goes to the person/people/organization intended.

3. Personally, for individuals, I prefer amending award criteria to allow for presentation of CAP decorations to non-members. (Decorations, not training awards). The precedence is already there - foreign soldiers can be awarded the Bronze Star, DFC, etc if they meet the award criteria. In the case of people not belonging to CAP, look at their actions and results, then ask "If s/he was in CAP, would we be giving an award for that?" If yes, then give it. But, and this is important - if the answer is no, then be disciplined enough to say "Sorry, we wouldn't give that to our own guy, so this guy will get that beautiful certificate instead."