Uniform board 2012

[AirDX]

Looks like the BDU is here to stay!!!! 
WOODLAND CAMO TO RETURN

Ummm...I love how they say that they won't issue the new uniform to those who HAD BDUs...AFAIK most of those uniforms were sold, given away or trashed by soldiers and airmen after the new uniforms came out.

Kids, kids, this is the Duffleblog... it's satire.   Kinda like the Onion.

[AngelWings]

Duffleblog is the best website ever!

[arajca]

A couple comments on the power point from the NUC:
1. Process still allows any level to "lose" any ideas they do not like, instead of responding with a "OK. I'll send it up" or "No. You're smoking something funny". The black hole problem has not been resolved for the regular member. There is a partial timeline for the NUC to work through ideas once they get them, but nothing to encourage lower levels to review and process suggestions in a timely fashion. IMO, there needs to be some requirement for each level to respond within a set timeframe (15 days? 21 days?) to the member with a status - approved and forwarded, not approved because ________, or I need more information on your idea.

2. Is there a plan to inform the field of the changes made at the August  2011 NB? How about the Winter 2012 NB? Apparently, one of my peeves was resolved last year, but NO ONE TOLD THE MEMBERS IN THE FIELD!

3. Since the power point apparently lists items approved by the NB, can it be used as justification to follow what's on it?


Yeah, I know. How dare I drag a uniform discussion back on topic.

[a2capt]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The "black hole" effect is one reason why I have not submitted a minimum-change idea, which would be to change the white aviator shirt to a civilian blue one, widely available at pilot shops online, and manufactured by Van Heusen and a host of others.  It's exactly the same as what we have now...only the colour is different.



I also have ideas for headgear, which I have aired here before and will not do so again.

[PHall]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

The CAP policy mirrors the USAF policy. You were expecting something different?
Remember, this is a para-military organization, everybody does NOT get to voice their opinion on everything.
You want to have YOUR opinion count? Become a Commander...

[Eclipse]

2. Is there a plan to inform the field of the changes made at the August  2011 NB? How about the Winter 2012 NB? Apparently, one of my peeves was resolved last year, but NO ONE TOLD THE MEMBERS IN THE FIELD!

Aside from being impressed when I saw your name, this was the most disappointing - clearly decisions have been made, yet no one
is telling the membership.

This presentation has the same lack of speakers notes that the others have, so some of the slides are difficult to decipher.

[Spaceman3750]

People need to stop treating surplus stores as legitimate supply sources when deciding how scarce BDUs are. They're convenient, but nobody cares whether or not you can get them at your local shop because our official uniform vendor continues to carry them. Saying that we should get rid of BDUs because you can't find them at surplus any more (while our uniform vendor continues to supply them) makes about as much sense as me saying that we should switch from the polo because I can't find it at WalMart (Vanguard is the only source).

That said, I think we should switch, but the argument most folks are throwing out simply doesn't hold water.

[Eclipse]

People need to stop treating surplus stores as legitimate supply sources when deciding how scarce BDUs are. They're convenient, but nobody cares whether or not you can get them at your local shop because our official uniform vendor continues to carry them. Saying that we should get rid of BDUs because you can't find them at surplus any more (while our uniform vendor continues to supply them) makes about as much sense as me saying that we should switch from the polo because I can't find it at WalMart (Vanguard is the only source).

I agree - by far the majority of members have never been on a military base, never received anything from DRMO, and surplus stores these days are few
and far between.  Up until recently, a far too large chunk though The Hock was actually CAP's official supplier.

There's plenty of non-CAP agencies wearing woodland, a few specialized military units still using them, and I can get whatever I need (even big-boy sizes) overnighted from / to anywhere in the world for a decent price.

Not to mention that in average CAP use, with proper care, a set of BDU's, no matter what flavor, can last the lifetime of a member.   These are designed to be combat field uniforms worn 24x7 in extreme environments.  We wear them once a week for a few hours at most, maybe a couple missions, and
perhaps a week or two at NESA.  I have 10 year old BDU's and 5+ year old blue field uniforms that look like new, even though they've been heavily (CAP) worn.

No shortage unless you decide to pretend there's one.

[Garibaldi]

I have 10 year old BDU's and 5+ year old blue field uniforms that look like new, even though they've been heavily (CAP) worn.

I have a set of BDUs that I've had since the late 90s that are still very serviceable and in use to this day. Darn things last just about forever.

[arajca]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

The CAP policy mirrors the USAF policy. You were expecting something different?
Remember, this is a para-military organization, everybody does NOT get to voice their opinion on everything.
You want to have YOUR opinion count? Become a Commander...

The issue is not that we expect our ideas to be adopted, but to at least get the courtesy of a rejection note, instead of leaving it hanging out there and no one will admit they rejected it, because after three years, they just "haven't gotten around to reviewing it."

[RADIOMAN015]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

The CAP policy mirrors the USAF policy. You were expecting something different?
Remember, this is a para-military organization, everybody does NOT get to voice their opinion on everything.
You want to have YOUR opinion count? Become a Commander...

The issue is not that we expect our ideas to be adopted, but to at least get the courtesy of a rejection note, instead of leaving it hanging out there and no one will admit they rejected it, because after three years, they just "haven't gotten around to reviewing it."

Yes, I believe an answer back to the volunteer (one way or the other) would show the proper "respect".   That's why the AF has a suggestion program that allows personnel to make suggestions and they do get a formal answer.
RM

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^This is true.

However, it works for the USAF because they have people who can order other people to get with the programme and get those ideas considered and get responses back to the people who make the proposals.  We don't have that, though it would be nice if we did.

[Eclipse]

We actually do have that, we just don't enforce it.

[arajca]

If you think about, a system is already in place. Look at how the CAP Driver's License system works. Member fills out form online and uploads documents. Member's commander is notified to approve or deny. If approved, next higher commander is notified. And on up the chain.

Applying this to uniform suggestions:
Member fills out form with check boxes for which uniform suggestion is for, includes a brief (100-150 word summary), and uploads a formal proposal.
Member's commander receives a notification of uniform suggestion pending. Command approves or rejects. Rejection includes a mandatory "This is why it was rejected" section.
If approved, next higher commander is notified. Etc.
Change the final destination from Ops Quals to CAP/DP.
Add a 14 day review period, daily nags after that, and an automatic 30 day approval.

Next project.

[PHall]

On "#1", that, admittedly, is the absolute biggest weakness of this organization.

No timeline on the suspenses, and that anyone can just toss it, lose it, or whatever because they don't like it, while it might have merit and should make it to the right level.

Of course the opposite of that argument is the right level rejected it.

I know, I could suggest we wear pink tu-tu's on ES missions due to visibility and that should be shot down, perhaps I should be 2B'ed for suggesting it.. so that validates the argument. However, the system should allow me to put forth something, and appeal it to one more level perhaps. But it should have a timeline attached to it.

The CAP policy mirrors the USAF policy. You were expecting something different?
Remember, this is a para-military organization, everybody does NOT get to voice their opinion on everything.
You want to have YOUR opinion count? Become a Commander...

The issue is not that we expect our ideas to be adopted, but to at least get the courtesy of a rejection note, instead of leaving it hanging out there and no one will admit they rejected it, because after three years, they just "haven't gotten around to reviewing it."

Yes, I believe an answer back to the volunteer (one way or the other) would show the proper "respect".   That's why the AF has a suggestion program that allows personnel to make suggestions and they do get a formal answer.
RM

But the AF Suggestion Program is not used to suggest changes to the Air Force uniform. That's a seperate program.
And your Commander does not have to tell you what ever happened to your uniform suggestion. Though the good ones will tell you.
That's one of the things that make them "good". They're accountable to their troops.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have worn BDUs as a cadet, infantry soldier, and as a senior member. As a cadet I needed a new set of BDUs about every three months for them to fit correctly. Do you think I would have paid vanguard prices?  If so, your nuts. I got them very easily at surplus, brand new less than vanguard, and no shipping. As a soldier, I DXd. BDUs about... Every three months. As a senior member, I have been using up a pair of BDUs about every seven or eight months. I do a lot of Es training, and I don't want to pay vanguard prices still. But I rip holes into the pants and jackets all the time, BDUs are not an invincible uniform. I hunt and Peck around for better prices. Plus at surplus I can make sure I get a pair that matches. I ordered one pair from vanguard and decided I was never doing it again, they arrived very fast, but they Were obviously from different batches, the jacket did not match the pants at all, I sent them back with a nice letter explaining that they did not match. It took about three weeks to get back a set that matched... Not going through that again.

But to a pilot or someone who is not heavily involved in Es, I could see them lasting a really long time. But those of us who go through uniforms faster Ned to b brought into confirmation. Congratulations to those of you who can get a uniform to last ten years. But I can make a uniform unserviceable in a matter of months.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think you may have other issues with BDUs. Nothing done normally in CAP would cause a cadet or a SM to go through a set every 7-8 months, and especially 3 months.

[AngelWings]

I think you may have other issues with BDUs. Nothing done normally in CAP would cause a cadet or a SM to go through a set every 7-8 months, and especially 3 months.

In my local forest, I've had pants rip from thorns and things. Huge thorns. I've also gotten rust, grease, and avgas on my uniform from being around older structures. No squadron is alike, and everyone has different experiences.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think you may have other issues with BDUs. Nothing done normally in CAP would cause a cadet or a SM to go through a set every 7-8 months, and especially 3 months.

In my local forest, I've had pants rip from thorns and things. Huge thorns. I've also gotten rust, grease, and avgas on my uniform from being around older structures. No squadron is alike, and everyone has different experiences.

If something like that is happening every 10 meetings or so, then you need to work on situational awareness.