Encampment and AFJROTC SLS

[thecadet]

I completed an AFJROTC Summer Leadership School and have turned in my certificate to NHQ. Because I have encampment credit, does this mean I can wear the Encampment Ribbon?

Encampment Ribbon. Awarded to cadets for
satisfactory completion of an encampment and to senior
members for service as a member of an encampment
staff. Award of the ribbon is retroactive and clasps may
be attached for repetitive awards.

That's what CAPR 39-3 says.

[Extremepredjudice]

No.

[DBlair]

I completed an AFJROTC Summer Leadership School and have turned in my certificate to NHQ. Because I have encampment credit, does this mean I can wear the Encampment Ribbon?

Encampment Ribbon. Awarded to cadets for
satisfactory completion of an encampment and to senior
members for service as a member of an encampment
staff. Award of the ribbon is retroactive and clasps may
be attached for repetitive awards.

That's what CAPR 39-3 says.

You have Cadet Program "credit" (in that being required to attend is waived) for Encampment, but unless you have actually completed Encampment, you don't get the ribbon.

[ßτε]

Yes, you are allowed to wear the Encampment Ribbon. You are given credit for completing a CAP Encampment, not a waiver of the requirement.

CAPR 52-16:

b. Encampment Credit. Cadets who complete an AFJROTC summer leadership school will receive credit for completing a CAP encampment after submitting their graduation certificate to National Headquarters.

[Eclipse]

52-16 does not define awards.  This cadet check-boxed the requirement towards the Mitchell Award, he did not complete a CAP encampment,
and does not qualify for the decoration, which is defined by 39-3, not 52-16.

[DBlair]

52-16 does not define awards.  This cadet check-boxed the requirement towards the Mitchell Award, he did not complete a CAP encampment,
and does not qualify for the decoration, which is defined by 39-3, not 52-16.

+1

Well said. Credit for something (i.e. checking the box, and giving alternative 'credit' so as to waive the requirement) is not the same as actually having completed it.

There are a few such situations in CAP, often causing friction when that 'credited' member then wants to staff/instruct at the activity they got out of attending. My personal opinion (and that of many/most with whom I've discussed this) is that if you get the generic credit for something, great, but if you want to then swim in that pool (and all the rewards that come with it), then you need to go through it and fulfill the normal requirements. Credit merely gets you out of attending, but it doesn't mean you went through it for any other purpose.


A few other common situations...

1) Spaatz Cadets turned Senior Member get credit for a Senior Rating in the Cadet Programs Specialty Track (of which one of the requirements is completing the highly-informational/beneficial TLC Course) and so they were essentially credited with/waived from attending TLC, but the problem surfaces when that member wants to go for a Master Rating in Cadet Programs, where teaching the TLC Course is among the requirements... and in order to teach, the member is supposed to have previously 'completed' TLC. The former-Spaatz say they were given credit/waived, and so should be allowed to teach, but most hold to the belief that unless you have completed that which you want to staff/instruct, you should have completed it yourself so as to at least know first-hand what is covered, etc. Usually, this situation results in the former-Spaatz pouting/whining that they shouldn't have to attend as only a student. (*rolling eyes*)

2) As is touched on in this thread... a Cadet receives alternative 'credit' for Encampment so as to be waived from this requirement when going for Mitchell Award, but then wants to wear the Encampment Ribbon and/or perhaps wants to staff an Encampment at some point, in spite of never having actually attended a CAP Encampment. Also, it may prove to be a disadvantage when being considered for various Cadet Program awards/recognition or staff/command positions as the alternative 'credit' Cadet essentially has a gap in their Cadet Program experience when compared to others who went through the traditional route.

3) Senior Member gets a special promotion to advanced CAP grade for whatever reason, but then feels entitled to wear the PD/Level ribbons that would have been earned up to the point of that CAP grade. Lesson here: If you didn't earn it, don't have a certificate (etc) saying you completed/were awarded it, then you aren't entitled to wear it.


(I can list a few other examples, but I think the point is made... "Credit" is not the same as "Completion" and can prove to be problematic down the road.)

[SARDOC]

No I wouldn't think so.  But if he were Dual Enrolled.  He could probably just wear the AFJROTC encampment ribbon.

I think it's called the leadership school ribbon.

[lordmonar]

, but the problem surfaces when that member wants to go for a Master Rating in Cadet Programs, where teaching the TLC Course is among the requirements... and in order to teach, the member is supposed to have previously 'completed' TLC.

While it is idea that someone should have gone throught a course before they teach it......it is not 100% necessary that they do so.

Example......you may never have taken high school calculus.....but after geting a BA in math you are certainly qualified to teach it at the high school level.

Same deal for TLC.  Holding a senior rateing in CP is the only requirement to teach TLC.  (strange that you are required to teach a course that no one is required to take....but there you go )

[EMT-83]

...Same deal for TLC.  Holding a senior rateing in CP is the only requirement to teach TLC.  (strange that you are required to teach a course that no one is required to take....but there you go )

Nope. Note the use of "should" in the TLC Course Director's Guide, indicating the rating is optional:

The commander of the hosting unit (a group commander or higher) selects the Course Director, who should be a master-rated senior member possessing considerable Cadet Programs experience. The instructional staff should also possess master rating in Cadet Programs or a related specialty, or have graduated from TLC.

[lordmonar]

So being a master rateing for the director and a senior OR graduate of the TLC......are only recommendations.

Like I said......there is no reason why this Spaatz cadet with his senior rating could not teach at a TLC.

[DBlair]

The TLC scenario I mentioned above is just an example of my point, and can be debated for days in its own thread, but as for the OP, I would say that 'credit' is not 'completion' of an Encampment, and so doesn't result in the Encampment Ribbon.

[thecadet]

I went to AFJROTC SLS. I completed it. I have a certificate saying I completed it. I also have a certificate saying I won room inspection for my flight (I would say that is the satisfactory mentioned in 39-3, but I don't know). Since 52-16 was updated in February and 39-3 was updated years ago, I am asking this question now. According to NHQ, I am a-ok to go to NCSAs with my credit, but I have no idea about this ribbon. SLS and encampment are interchangable, as my JROTC SASI and my CAP sqcmdr told me. I'm not one of those ribbon hogs, but it would be good to know if I can wear an encampment ribbon since I intend on going to an NCSA this year.

And to whoever said I can just wear the JROTC ribbon--I can wear 3. And I would rather use those three on my three highest JROTC awards (AMVETS, TREA, and Outstanding Cadet).

[Eclipse]

SLS and encampment are interchangable.

In what respect?

Credit towards Mitchell?  Yes.

Experientially?  No.

[DBlair]

I went to AFJROTC SLS. I completed it. I have a certificate saying I completed it. I also have a certificate saying I won room inspection for my flight (I would say that is the satisfactory mentioned in 39-3, but I don't know). Since 52-16 was updated in February and 39-3 was updated years ago, I am asking this question now. According to NHQ, I am a-ok to go to NCSAs with my credit, but I have no idea about this ribbon. SLS and encampment are interchangable, as my JROTC SASI and my CAP sqcmdr told me. I'm not one of those ribbon hogs, but it would be good to know if I can wear an encampment ribbon since I intend on going to an NCSA this year.

And to whoever said I can just wear the JROTC ribbon--I can wear 3. And I would rather use those three on my three highest JROTC awards (AMVETS, TREA, and Outstanding Cadet).

You completed AFJROTC SLS, not CAP Encampment. While you are being given credit in that Encampment is being waived due to your SLS, it doesn't mean you actually went to CAP Encampment.

The moment you have a certificate in your hand that says you graduated CAP Encampment, then you are eligible to wear the CAP Encampment Ribbon. Until then, if you opt to wear your JROTC ribbon, that is on you. Likewise, when you go to the NCSA this summer, you will earn the Special Activities ribbon, as it is up to you if you would like to wear it.

I have no issue with wearing ribbons, but make sure they are ribbons you've actually earned.

[SARDOC]

The moment you have a certificate in your hand that says you graduated CAP Encampment, then you are eligible to wear the CAP Encampment Ribbon.

Not Exactly...I understand the sentiment but that's not technically true.  the Encampment Ribbon is an Activity Award and needs to be approved by the wing commander or their approved delegate.

18. Authority to Award Ribbons.
a.  Region commanders award activity and service ribbons to members of the region staff and
members of the region headquarters.
b. Wing commanders award activity and service ribbons to members of their staffs and to
members of units within their wings.  Authority to award these activity and service ribbons may be
delegated to group and squadron commanders at the discretion of the wing commander.
19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons.  The individual
member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request
for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have
been completed.  The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate
approving authority.  (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing
commander as outlined in paragraph 17b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns
it to the recipient.)  Upon approval, activity and service ribbons are purchased by the awarding unit
or by the individual recipient, as appropriate.   

[tsrup]

I went to AFJROTC SLS. I completed it. I have a certificate saying I completed it. I also have a certificate saying I won room inspection for my flight (I would say that is the satisfactory mentioned in 39-3, but I don't know). Since 52-16 was updated in February and 39-3 was updated years ago, I am asking this question now. According to NHQ, I am a-ok to go to NCSAs with my credit, but I have no idea about this ribbon. SLS and encampment are interchangable, as my JROTC SASI and my CAP sqcmdr told me. I'm not one of those ribbon hogs, but it would be good to know if I can wear an encampment ribbon since I intend on going to an NCSA this year.

And to whoever said I can just wear the JROTC ribbon--I can wear 3. And I would rather use those three on my three highest JROTC awards (AMVETS, TREA, and Outstanding Cadet).

It is really quite simple.  No you may not wear the CAP encampment ribbon as you did not complete a CAP encampment.  Your satisfactory completion of your JROTC SLS (which gained you a separate ribbon already) only allows you credit for completion.   

If you needed it simplified even more look at it this way:  you cannot be awarded two awards for the same action.   The ability for you to wear your JROTC SLS ribbon takes this in to account, it its your decision whether you want to wear it.

[ElJefe192]

On a related note,
Would anyone know if a cadet who has completed an Army JROTC Summer Leadership School be eligible for the waiver?  The 52-16 says AFJROTC SLS but just wondering if anyone had extra knowledge.  I have a cadet at my squadron asking and I can't find any other guidance.

[ßτε]

On a related note,
Would anyone know if a cadet who has completed an Army JROTC Summer Leadership School be eligible for the waiver?  The 52-16 says AFJROTC SLS but just wondering if anyone had extra knowledge.  I have a cadet at my squadron asking and I can't find any other guidance.

No. Only AFJROTC SLS counts.

[DBlair]

The moment you have a certificate in your hand that says you graduated CAP Encampment, then you are eligible to wear the CAP Encampment Ribbon.

Not Exactly...I understand the sentiment but that's not technically true.  the Encampment Ribbon is an Activity Award and needs to be approved by the wing commander or their approved delegate.

18. Authority to Award Ribbons.
a.  Region commanders award activity and service ribbons to members of the region staff and
members of the region headquarters.
b. Wing commanders award activity and service ribbons to members of their staffs and to
members of units within their wings.  Authority to award these activity and service ribbons may be
delegated to group and squadron commanders at the discretion of the wing commander.
19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons.  The individual
member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request
for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have
been completed.  The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate
approving authority.  (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing
commander as outlined in paragraph 17b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns
it to the recipient.)  Upon approval, activity and service ribbons are purchased by the awarding unit
or by the individual recipient, as appropriate.   

This is why I put 'eligible' as it would of course need to be processed/approved accordingly. Perhaps I should have worded it better.

[Eclipse]

Why do we want to waive anything, especially encampments? They are an important milestone in a cadet's career, and for many a gate.  This isn't about
a few credit hours or a meaningless checkbox, the encampment experience is routinely cited as a delimiter of cadet retention and progression.

I have never personally met a cadet who I considered a "success story" who wasn't heavily involved in encampments or similiar activities.

Why would we deny that to a cadet simply because he's involved in a similar, separate program?

[tsrup]

Why do we want to waive anything, especially encampments? They are an important milestone in a cadet's career, and for many a gate.  This isn't about
a few credit hours or a meaningless checkbox, the encampment experience is routinely cited as a delimiter of cadet retention and progression.

I have never personally met a cadet who I considered a "success story" who wasn't heavily involved in encampments or similiar activities.

Why would we deny that to a cadet simply because he's involved in a similar, separate program?

Politics mostly as an effort to recruit/retain JROTC cadets.  It is things like this that help show dual cadets that we appreciate the experience that they have and what they can also bring to the table.  Not to mention that some cadets can't afford to go to two encampments every summer or even their entire cadet career.

If the learning requirements are similar I see no problem with this policy as it stand, as long as there is reciprocity with our own encampments holding equal weight within JROTC.

[lordmonar]

Why do we want to waive anything, especially encampments? They are an important milestone in a cadet's career, and for many a gate.  This isn't about
a few credit hours or a meaningless checkbox, the encampment experience is routinely cited as a delimiter of cadet retention and progression.

I have never personally met a cadet who I considered a "success story" who wasn't heavily involved in encampments or similiar activities.

Why would we deny that to a cadet simply because he's involved in a similar, separate program?

Well...it eliminate the need for the cadet to choose between the two programs.   Some AFJROTC units require SLS for entry into their officer ranks.....just as we do our encampment.  So a duel enrolled cadet does not have to give up two weeks and multiple hundres of dollars to get essentially the same experince.

[thecadet]

Well...it eliminate the need for the cadet to choose between the two programs.   Some AFJROTC units require SLS for entry into their officer ranks.....just as we do our encampment.  So a duel enrolled cadet does not have to give up two weeks and multiple hundres of dollars to get essentially the same experince.

I am a c/Lt Col in AFJROTC. I am a c/CMSgt in CAP. I couldn't go to summer encampment because I decided summer school (to get ahead) was a better choice. I spent my week on an AFB with people screaming at me. I made my bed and shined my shoes. I learned about security forces and medical careers. I am a high-achieving person in my school (I'm fourth in my class of 350) and my community (in 8th grade I was picked out of 30 kids to be student mayor). It's a simple question of interpretation on a new addition to a rule. I don't know why we're going into this debate of "suck it up and go." It's not like I didn't want to go; I do. But I also did the, according to NHQ equivalent, time.

[Eclipse]

It's not like I didn't want to go; I do. But I also did the, according to NHQ equivalent, time.

Yes, and your box is checked for Mitchell, however you did not complete a CAP encampment, so no ribbon.  Not really a big deal in the Grande Scheme^®.

This is pretty much the same as seniors in the military who use PME equivalents for things like RSC, or SLS.  You get the Level cert, but you don't get an SLS cert or an RSC coin, etc., that's just the way it is.  No harm, no foul.  Someone asks how you got Mitchell without an encampment, you tell them you're JROTC and FIMO.

[DBlair]

It's not like I didn't want to go; I do. But I also did the, according to NHQ equivalent, time.

Yes, and your box is checked for Mitchell, however you did not complete a CAP encampment, so no ribbon.  Not really a big deal in the Grande Scheme^®.

This is pretty much the same as seniors in the military who use PME equivalents for things like RSC, or SLS.  You get the Level cert, but you don't get an SLS cert or an RSC coin, etc., that's just the way it is.  No harm, no foul.  Someone asks how you got Mitchell without an encampment, you tell them you're JROTC and FIMO.

+1