Stolen Valor New Wrinkle

[Smithsonia]

A stolen valor case was dismissed on Constitutional Grounds.
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=143981&catid=339

It is to the glory of the US Military that these men and women protect the Constitution of the United States and our Freedom of Speech. It is to the annoyance of human logic that military valor may be compromised by preserving Constitutional freedoms.

God Bless our service people. God Bless our Constitution. Sometimes when God blesses both we have a predicament such as this. So I guess I must begrudgingly say, God Bless our courts too.

[Eclipse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD7a9oj-Go8

[dogboy]

DENVER – A law that makes it illegal to lie about being a war hero is unconstitutional because it violates free speech, a federal judge ruled Friday as he dismissed a case against a Colorado man who claimed he received two military medals.

Rick Glen Strandlof claimed he was an ex-Marine who was wounded in Iraq and received the Purple Heart and Silver Star, but the military had no record he ever served. He was charged with violating the Stolen Valor Act, which makes it a crime punishable by up to a year in jail to falsely claim to have won a military medal.

U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn dismissed the case and said the law is unconstitutional, ruling the government did not show it has a compelling reason to restrict that type of statement.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100716/ap_on_re_us/us_military_medals_impostors

[MIKE]

Merged.

[lordmonar]

On one level I see what the judge was saying....

Saying "I used to be a fire man, saved a bunch of people and got injured" is not against the law...unless there is fraud involved....but saying "I used to be a Marine got the silver star and purple heart" is (was) against the law....simply because you said it.

The judge feels there is no good reason for the government to restrict that sort of speech.

This has nothing to with fruad...i.e. if you claim you were a vet and get benifits from someone because you lied....that is still a crime.

[Gunner C]

On one level I see what the judge was saying....

NO.

This is the problem: they're arguing damage, but this is a matter of right and wrong. The judge is telling us that there are no actions that are inherently wrong. In a very real sense, people are harmed - it diminishes the value of the award.

It's inherent value is the standard which is applied for its award to an individual by the government. The awardees have paid a tremendous price, especially the MOH, and this is the government's recognition of that price paid.

[Smithsonia]

Freedom of Speech/Press means that we tolerate pornography, most hate speech (when not used in direct acts of intimidation), political hypocrisy, shameful acts like protesters at Military Funerals upset over toleration of gays, AND Neo-Nazis, Communist, and Jihadists.

The object is to hone the counter argument so that these people are shamed or educated. For instance, discrimination
is everyone's right (in most private circumstances) Hence, private thoughts are usually handled with public shame. Mel Gibson is getting a dose of that this week.

Not pertaining specifically to the legal realm... there has always been an extra judicial procedure: It is trial by public opinion resulting in public disgust and public ridicule. That too is protected speech. That too is a protected and private discriminatory practice. That too is a valuable societal tool. I imagine the young misguided man in this case has received a Mel Gibson sized thrashing from that tool recently. This tool is known as shunning.

[RiverAux]

I can sort of understand where they're coming from in terms of verbal or written claims about military service or awards being a free speech issue.

But, I wonder if the decision also went into whether wearing unearned military awards was a different type of crime.  I would hope at least that this would remain illegal. 

[Gunner C]

With respect . . .

This is not speech, this is conduct, this is disrespect, this is theft of valor.  Valor is a commodity.  When it is stolen, it diminishes the value of that commodity.  It demands that the person be punished for that crime.  When valor becomes worthless then we become less safe as a people and a country.   

[Major Lord]

A little research, including watching this gentleman's  Youtube video with Anderson Cooper, indicates that this guy is severely mentally ill. In other circumstances, he might have claimed to be Napoleon. Generally, lying is not a crime (else the impeachments would never stop, and the Government would shut down!) and since no thing of monetary value was gained by his lies, its hard to justify criminalizing nuttiness. Not to say that a good old fashioned azzwhoppin would not be inappropriate here. No serviceman's honor is diminished by his actions, his delusions don't hurt the honor of the real-deal guys and gals who's valor is unimpeachable. ( I am just glad that all these nutjobs seem to be on the liberals side!)

Major Lord

[Smithsonia]

Gunner;
While I personally agree with you - I find that I am in a position to explain but not embrace this legal opinion.

Valor is not a commodity. Commodities have an exact amount. Valor is not a virtue (although it is the display of virtues)
It is honor bestowed by a grateful nation upon those who have earned it. My gratitude is not diminished by the acts of others.
There is no limit to my gratitude to the men and women who serve this country.

To this point. I stood in the rain not long after 9-11 to shake the hands and offer salutes to many a young man headed to battle in the initial stages of the Afghanistan invasion. After the ceremony I listened to the Marines talk about what happened. Several stated - that since they had not yet gone into battle - they felt uncomfortable in receiving the appreciation. The Captain who addressed these men stated something like -

"It is for you to die for your country. BUT it is for you to also receive praise that belongs to others. Take those handshakes. Accept that praise and give it to your brothers and sister. You are a transmitter of honor. Be the loudest, proudest, best transmitter that you can be. Be a Marine."

My point here is - this example is an understood exception. Meaning the rule has areas of gray that lack definition and standing. This lack of definition and standing has been used a ruler in rule making for as long as our States have been United.

There may be grousing about this decision over a beer tonight. However, I think the ruling is correct. I say this while the ruling is not to my liking. BUT then that is the nature of our Constitution. That paradox is a thing that we as Americans need to weigh and think through because that makes us as unique a people as have ever been.

[TCMajor]

Unfortunately I have to agree with the judge on this one also.  The First Amendment is not designed to protect popular speech, but unpopular speech.  The key in this case is to put these losers into a situation where they actually do violate a law that is constitutional.  The first one I can think of is to get them into a proper uniform wearing their medals.  Especially effective if they are impersonating a Commissioned Officer.  Last I checked impersonation of a NCO or Commissioned Officer of the United States is still a crime.  The other way would be to get them to apply for some benefit based on the lie.  Then you have them.  However, the best way would be to put them on a plane to Fallujah.  Once there just let the city elders know all about his lie, then turn him over to them.  I am sure they could handle the situation with great aplomb.   

[Trung Si Ma]

Why am I not surprised to find that this judge never served and spent the entire Vietnam war in college (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Blackburn)?  Legal doesn't make something right.

[lordmonar]

This is on par with flag burning.

Personally I hate it terrible.....and want to burn the burners in their own flames.....but I understand that the flag they are burning gives them the right to burn it and I will defend their right to do so.

Stealing valor is terrible....but I can see how the judge would rule the way he did.

Unless we are prepared to make ANY LIE a punishable offense then we can't make just one type of lying a punishable offense.

[lordmonar]

Why am I not surprised to find that this judge never served and spent the entire Vietnam war in college (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Blackburn)?  Legal doesn't make something right.

No one ever said legal and right are always the same.

[vmstan]

Why am I not surprised to find that this judge never served and spent the entire Vietnam war in college (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Blackburn)?  Legal doesn't make something right.

If he was born in 1950, and would been a teenager and of normal age to be in college and then law school why would should it be held against him that he didn't serve in Vietnam?

That said. I find this ruling ridiculous.

[jimmydeanno]

Of course, the judge must be an idiot because he never served in the military.  If only we had conscription, then we'd have real citizens.   

I sometimes wonder if people forget what it is to be an American (rhetorical).

[bm325e]

Gentleman....it is basically a CON-ARTIST...some one who can steal your identity and play someone else...lets start by respecting our war heroes...if you are civilian may be you would not understand but if you have ever  been in the heat of a battle and you know what you are fighting for....and you are a lucky enough to  come back home in one piece ..then you know you are who you are ...lets keep those people who do know what sacrifice is all about ...and keep those CON-ARTIST away from the media and prosecute them....

[lordmonar]

The judge is not saying these guys are saints....he is only saying that the government has not sufficent cause to make claiming vet status and medals a crime....at the same time they don't make claiming to be fireman and hero a crime as well.

And for the record I've been shot at a time or two.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm studying psychology but no way am I qualified to make an assessment on his mental illness.

I have no doubt that is a factor with some of these types, especially if they couldn't get into the military because of it and it became some sort of obsession.

But there are other pukes who buy the medals from someplace like Medals of America or one of the other 1,000,000 places on the Internet who sell medals up to and including the Air Force Cross, Navy Cross and Army Distinguished Service Cross to almost anyone, no questions asked.  They do enough research to seem somewhat credible to those with little knowledge of the military, set up a uniform with lots of bling (like the bogus Marine Sergeant Major that has been referenced on this board), and claim to have been a Navy SEAL, Army Ranger, Marine Recon, USAF fighter jock, CG rescue swimmer or whatever other elite, knowing full well that they are lying in their teeth.

I was a Boy Scout when I was a kid.  I didn't make Eagle Scout, unfortunately, but I remember some 12-year-old I ran into who swore left, right and sideways that he was an Eagle Scout.  Similar mentality.

Those types should be sent to Lackland, Parris Island, Cape May, Ft. Leonard Wood or Great Lakes to be "educated" by someone with a big voice, lots of stripes and lots of attitude.