Flight Jacket without uniform??

[Eclipse]

Everything we wear as a uniform - from golf shirt to mess dress, is just "cloth", and most of it, especially the stuff closer to the center (BDU's, flight jackets, etc.) is worn by millions everyday in a civilian setting with no consequence or ramifications because those people are neither military nor affiliated with an organization that utilizes these articles of clothing as a "uniform".

But the minute you sign up for an organization that views said articles as part of their organizational identity, the rules change, and while you can stamp your feet about the "law", that won't change whether said organization can impart internal ramifications upon you if you act like a goober or don't respect the rules (whatever they are).

Everything CAP defines as a uniform, is just that, a uniform, and as long as you're carrying a CAP ID card, and care about your CAP career, every piece needs to be worn (or not) as prescribed.  Whether or not the sky will fall because of a given minor transgression is irrelevant to the conversation.  I have a closet full of clothes that I purchased at my personal option which are uniforms in the CAP sense, and that I would not consider wearing outside a CAP context. Period.

People will go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify behavior which may be convenient or "not a big deal" or "who cares?" when they know that ultimately they should not be doing it.

Generally, if you're questioning whether it should be done, it shouldn't.

[Hawk200]

Well said.

[vmstan]

Indeed.

If you want others to respect you in your uniform, you have to start by respecting the uniform itself and rules regulating its use.

[Dracosbane]

Again, I am going to reiterate the most important sentence from my previous two postings.  I will follow the regulations as they are written if and when I do buy a flight jacket, or with any piece of uniform items in my possession.  Neither my integrity nor my character are in question, nor do they need undue or unnecessary assassination, ridicule, or petty insults.  You have done thus now twice, without provocation due to a disagreement in opinion.  I have not made this personal, and neither should you.

Because everything else is my opinion, it's not "child logic" nor is it "mental gymnastics" in order to bend everything to my will.  I know what the manual reads and does not read.  My opinion is exactly that.  An opinion.  It is not law, regulation, decree, nor demand.  I was not, nor am I now, stating that my opinion should be enacted as the regulations because I want them to be. 

And yes, I do, as does everyone else who is a member, have the right to do as I please outside of CAP, ID card in my wallet or not.  CAP does not regulate my life unless and until I put on that uniform and/or I am acting on behalf of CAP.  If I saw you on the street in an everyday setting, neither one of us would be able to pick out which of us is a CAP member by sight alone, barring some identifying mark (or by giving the secret squirrel handshake   ).  Therefore, I am not bound by CAP regulations.  I can carry a weapon (verboten in CAP, and just one example).  I can and should separate CAP and Real Life.

*the previous words and postings like it are my opinion and my opinion alone, and should not be construed as the opinion of any regulation or any other member of CAP, Inc., nor are they any more than one man's thoughts on any given subject.  YMMV*

[LeoBurke]

I was taught if they can't trust you with the little stuff, how could they trust you with the important stuff?

Interesting thought.  I was taught that "Her majesty made you a Major not because you know how to obey orders, but because you know when not to obey orders."

By extension, I believe that intelligent people can still decide which orders/regulations are the "really important ones".  Like wearing a warm enough jacket for the weather conditions vs say freezing.   

The Gen McArthur example was spot on.  The guy made up lots of his own rules and ignored some others, because he was working on the important stuff.

[Short Field]

By extension, I believe that intelligent people can still decide which orders/regulations are the "really important ones".  Like wearing a warm enough jacket for the weather conditions vs say freezing. 

As much as some people want to make this about being smart enough to wear a warm jacket instead of freezing - it is about following the rules that CAP sets out.  As mentioned earlier, field expediency is different than routine wear.   I have not been talking about field expediency. 

The Gen McArthur example was spot on.  The guy made up lots of his own rules and ignored some others, because he was working on the important stuff.

So Truman finally fired him.  And do we really want our members to be making up their own rules and ignoring others because they are working on more important stuff?

[Short Field]

Please tell me which regulations you have told your squadron members  they can ignore and which ones they have to follow.  I missed that class and would like to know.

Your insult is beneath you.  The way you seem to have paintakenly replied to a "throw away" posting like the one I made shows that you have taken this to some personal level. 

Sorry, I missed whatever it was that showed it was a "throw away" posting.

It is plainly stupid to assume that because someone wore something, for what ever reason, they will not follow regulations simply based on that. 

So I should assume that because they are demonstrating they don't want to follow some regulations, that they would follow other ones? 

[Hawk200]

The Gen McArthur example was spot on.  The guy made up lots of his own rules and ignored some others, because he was working on the important stuff.

It is amazing how society puts people like this on a pedestal as the example of great leadership; but always fail to consider is the fact that if everyone did the same thing, the chaos would be unimaginable.

They also seem to think that because McArthur and others did it, that they too will be a gift or supreme example to the world in how to do things.

McArthur was a great man, I won't dispute that. I'll also point out that many people in prison today have the same type of drive and ego. It is arrogance to justify willful non-compliance with McArthur's career when you have more in common with a common criminal.

[Major Carrales]

So I should assume that because they are demonstrating they don't want to follow some regulations, that they would follow other ones?

No, you should judge their "flying" activities as per CAPR 60-1 and their "emergency service" activities based on CAPR 60-3 and you should judge their "uniform issues" based on CAPM 39-1.

You compare APPLES to APPLES and ORANGES to ORANGES, hold people to the standard based on the REG or MANUAL you are dealing with and don't hold "the barber" responsible for the cutting of "the fabric" in the store across the way.

If you really have issues with people wearing "flight jackets" because they are "uniforms" and that they must be "criminals" and flagrant reg breakers because of it, then you need to issue as CAPF 2b to those individuals or report them to the IG.  Let National sort out your issue and you will find that the absolutes you are attempting to deal in are not in the realm of reality.

Logic is an interesting exercise...

A Goat has a beard
Plato has a beard
Plato is a goat.

Obviously Plato was not a goat.

By the same tolken...

Man wears a flight jacket with golf shirt,
Wearing a Flight jacket with a golf shirt is against the rules,
Stealing an CAP aircraft is against the rules,
Man MUST be stealing an aircraft.

Sorry, your assertion is bogus...

[Pumbaa]

Sparky YOU stole an aircraft?