Flight Jacket without uniform??

[Smoothice]

If someone has a flight jacket with all the CAP "stuff" sewn on it, they are not supposed to be wearing that out in CIVI's right? I noticed a guy wearing his CAP flight jacket at an AOPA meeting...he had the name tag pulled off, but eveything else was there and he was in jeans/t-shirt...this is wrong....yes???

[SarDragon]

That depends on who you talk to. Some will say it's OK; others will say it's not. The CAPM 39-1 is non-specific - doesn't say you can, doesn't say you can't.

YMMV.

[Smoothice]

That depends on who you talk to. Some will say it's OK; others will say it's not. The CAPM 39-1 is non-specific - doesn't say you can, doesn't say you can't.

YMMV.

I love those "grey" areas!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That's why I have everything attached with Velcro on both my black A-2 and my blue MA-1; if I want to wear them on civvy street all I have to do is take the patches off.

On the A-2 it's barely noticeable.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to rig my Captain's bars (plastic encased) on Velcro so they're on there all the time...but to Joe Public it may just be an old MA-1 that an AF Captain used to own with the old Velcro still on it (meaning: no association with CAP or the military).

[AirAux]

I see it as good advertizing.  Like the old A-2's that were worn for over 30 years after WWII, I think it can be considered civilian wear as long as you're not pretending to be an officer or on active CAP duty..  You paid for it, you can wear it.  Blue jeans, t-shirt and flight jacket do not make a military uniform, so go for it.. Precedence has been established by better men than us..

[Hawk200]

If someone has a flight jacket with all the CAP "stuff" sewn on it, they are not supposed to be wearing that out in CIVI's right? I noticed a guy wearing his CAP flight jacket at an AOPA meeting...he had the name tag pulled off, but eveything else was there and he was in jeans/t-shirt...this is wrong....yes???

Yes, it's wrong. It's mixing uniform items with civilian clothes. Yes, it's done, and it's been portrayed in many a movie, but that doesn't make it right.

If someone really wants to wear the jacket, all patches should be removed. Some will have issues with it, but it's far less of an issue than mixing uniform and civilian clothing.

[Pumbaa]

So can I wear my Flight jacket with my "Secret Squirrel" and Zombie hunter patches on it?

[Ned]

I live with some great "fabric arts" people, so I have a wonderful variety of velcro "morale patches" that I wear on my A2, including logos for my favorite sports teams, etc.

I keep the CAP stuff in the pocket, and just wear the other stuff.  It's amazing how often I am asked "where can I get one of those team jackets" or something similar.

[Hawk200]

So can I wear my Flight jacket with my "Secret Squirrel" and Zombie hunter patches on it?

If you're not mixing it with CAP patches, why not? Not really any different than sewing patches onto a jean jacket or something similar.

I live with some great "fabric arts" people, so I have a wonderful variety of velcro "morale patches" that I wear on my A2, including logos for my favorite sports teams, etc.

I keep the CAP stuff in the pocket, and just wear the other stuff.  It's amazing how often I am asked "where can I get one of those team jackets" or something similar.

That's a pretty cool idea. Bare Velcro on any kind of jacket makes some people wonder what it's used for.

[twofivexray]

A few weeks ago, when it was still pretty chilly, I wore my flight jacket over my blue golf shirt to a squadron meeting. On the way home, I stopped off to pick up my wife from a class. She was late or I was early, so I stopped in a local bookstore to browse.

As I was  checking out, the clerk commented on my jacket and we started a conversation. He was not aware that there was a squadron which met just a few blocks away.To make a long story short, he is now a new senior member of our squadron.

So..maybe its not such a bad thing to advertise once in a while.

[vento]

A few weeks ago, when it was still pretty chilly, I wore my flight jacket over my blue golf shirt to a squadron meeting. On the way home, I stopped off to pick up my wife from a class. She was late or I was early, so I stopped in a local bookstore to browse.
.....

With all due respect, the only way to wear the green flight jacket with the polo shirt uniform is to remove all patches and make it a "civilian jacket". You were not out of uniforms, were you? 

[Hawk200]

A few weeks ago, when it was still pretty chilly, I wore my flight jacket over my blue golf shirt to a squadron meeting. On the way home, I stopped off to pick up my wife from a class. She was late or I was early, so I stopped in a local bookstore to browse.

As I was  checking out, the clerk commented on my jacket and we started a conversation. He was not aware that there was a squadron which met just a few blocks away.To make a long story short, he is now a new senior member of our squadron.

So..maybe its not such a bad thing to advertise once in a while.

"The ends justify the means"?

[twofivexray]

the only way to wear the green flight jacket with the polo shirt uniform is to remove all patches and make it a "civilian jacket".

Can someone point out the regulation where this is stated?

[Hawk200]

the only way to wear the green flight jacket with the polo shirt uniform is to remove all patches and make it a "civilian jacket".

Can someone point out the regulation where this is stated?

If the reg doesn't say you can, you can't. A regulation that actually lists everything forbidden would be bigger than the Encyclopedia Brittanica. Simple KISS application.

A jacket without patches isn't a uniform item. Hence the suggestion that removing all patches makes it "civilian" wear. Roundabout logic. Not gonna find it in a reg.

A flight jacket without patches will draw just as many questions as one with them. "Sanitize" it before wearing with anything other than a flightsuit.

[vento]

the only way to wear the green flight jacket with the polo shirt uniform is to remove all patches and make it a "civilian jacket".

Can someone point out the regulation where this is stated?

The green flight jacket is only authorized with the AF style green bag. It is not authorized anywhere else in 39-1.

Furthermore, page 85 of the 39-1 spells out what is authorized with the polo shirt:

7
Outergarments
Appropriate civilian outerwear is authorized including the light blue windbreaker with the CAP seal on the right breast.
Headgear is not required but the CAP baseball cap may be worn.

and lastly the change letter of 25 January 2008 adds the black leather jacket to the approval list:

3. Changes to CAP Distinctive Uniforms:
a. Black Leather Jacket. Effective 15 March 2006, a black leather jacket with side entry and patch pockets similar in style to the A-2 jacket was approved for wear by CAP senior members with the aviator shirt combinations, utility uniform, CAP flight suit or CAP polo shirt with gray slacks. The CAP Command Patch will be worn on the right breast with the black leather name patch on the left breast pocket. This jacket may not be worn with any of the AF-style uniforms. Effective 29 June 2006, the leather name patch worn on this jacket is changed to a black leather name tag with a brown inset.

As you can see, we can wear any appropriate civilian outerwear, or the other specifically approved jackets. The only way to make the green flight jacket to comply with the regulation is to remove the patches and make it a civilian jacket.

[Short Field]

And where does it state that "sanitizing" a CWU 45 flight jacket makes it "civilian outerwear"?  Just because a lot of people like to wear military uniform items as civilian attire does not make them civilian attire.

[Hawk200]

And where does it state that "sanitizing" a CWU 45 flight jacket makes it "civilian outerwear"?  Just because a lot of people like to wear military uniform items as civilian attire does not make them civilian attire.

So a CWU 45 is always a uniform item? Even when there is no insignia? Does the same apply to an A-2, G-1, CWU 35 or MA-1?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So a CWU 45 is always a uniform item? Even when there is no insignia? Does the same apply to an A-2, G-1, CWU 35 or MA-1?

If it has insignia on it defining it as a military/quasi-military/law enforcement clothing item, it's a uniform.

Without, it's an outergarment.

If it's always a uniform no matter what, then a heck of a lot of people are guilty of unauthorised uniform wear:

• Private pilots wearing MA-1 knockoffs bought at pilot shops and/or Evilbay
• Tom Cruise wannabes wearing G-1's
• Hunters wearing Army/Navy surplus BDU's
• Wannabe militia types wearing Army/Navy surplus BDU's
• Nutcase skinhead types wearing black MA-1's with stupid slogan patches on them
• Vets wearing ones custom-made for them (http://www.usmedals.com/JacketsBridge.aspx)
• Little kids wearing little-kid sized BDU's, flight jackets, etc.
• My misspent youth wearing my brother-in-law's old green Army M-65 until it wore out

Without the CAP shield and leather nameplate, my black A-2 is quite stylish for civilian occasions (you have to be up close to notice the Velcro).

[Hawk200]

If it has insignia on it defining it as a military/quasi-military/law enforcement clothing item, it's a uniform.

Without, it's an outergarment.

I agree. I've run into many people that consider those jackets "always a uniform, insignia doesn't matter". Seems to be CAP people. Never really ran into that much in the military.

You find a lot of teens, young adults around this area that like to wear BDU tops and bottoms together. Are they wearing a uniform as far as I'm concerned? No. Do I think they look stupid? Yup.

[SarDragon]

I see it slightly differently.

You're right about '... many people that consider those jackets "always a uniform, insignia doesn't matter". Seems to be CAP people.' That's because we're members of an organization with a specific "dress code". The pretenders/wannabes do not have that rule structure in place.

WIWOAD in the Navy, I experienced that inequity on a regular basis. Civilians could mix and match uniform items with impunity, while folks on AD could be disciplined for similar behaviour. The organizational membership made all the difference.

YMMV.