Black Fleece Jacket

[Storm Chaser]

You're reading too much into it. The grade insignia is supposed to be 2" x 2", regardless of the extra blue background exposed. That's how the Air Force fleece jacket insignia is worn, which was used as a model for the CAP fleece jacket.

Cite please.

There's nowhere in 39-1 that's even hinted.

You already cited it. You may want to reread it.

[Eclipse]

You're reading too much into it. The grade insignia is supposed to be 2" x 2", regardless of the extra blue background exposed. That's how the Air Force fleece jacket insignia is worn, which was used as a model for the CAP fleece jacket.

Cite please.

There's nowhere in 39-1 that's even hinted.

You already cited it. You may want to reread it.

I did, and I checked the entirety of 39-1, not a hint.

The above mess indicates ultramarine velcro and says nothing about the size of the insignia itself,
and the only reference to insignia size in this regard is about general's stars when 1" versions won't fit.

Whatever the intention here might have been, it never made it to the page, and expecting members
to interpret that sentence above is ridiculous, especially when the garment itself is >not< uniform,
nor is the insignia.

Also, since "velcro" is a commercial brand name for hook and loop fasteners, as long as we're fixing things,
it's either "VELCRO®" or "Velcro^®" not "velcro".

[Storm Chaser]

The language in CAPM 39-1 was taken from AFI 36-2903. I admit that considering the way things are in CAP (vs. the Air Force), they probably could've been more specific. The uniform committee should've anticipate the likes of Eclipse and not leave anything open to interpretation. I anticipate that Vanguard will start selling these (if they haven't already) and will set the "standard", sort of speak.

Either way, I've attached a picture of a USAF fleece jack to illustrate what I believe was the intention in CAPM 39-1. If you disagree, oh well; there's nothing I can do.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Eclipse]

Wow - I took my time putting the h&l's on and thought mine looks torn up because it doesn't lay
perfect on the hanger, that above looks like it was done with craft glue by "Mrs. Henderson's 4th grade Sewing Bees".

[pierson777]

You're reading too much into it. The grade insignia is supposed to be 2" x 2", regardless of the extra blue background exposed. That's how the Air Force fleece jacket insignia is worn, which was used as a model for the CAP fleece jacket.

Cite please.

There's nowhere in 39-1 that's even hinted.

You already cited it. You may want to reread it.

According to the CAPM 39-1, the velcro must be 2 inch square.  Oddly enough, there is no size given in para 6.1.12.3.1. Officer and NCO Rank Insignia to indicate what size the rank material must be.  We can assume that the rank material is supposed to be 2 inch, but the regulation go it wrong by not describing the size.  In the Air Force, AAFES sells the sage green fleece with the velro already on it, and they sell the rank already sewn onto a piece of velcro.  I'm sure everyone just buys each of them and puts the rank on the jacket, regardless of the sizes found in the air force manual.  This wouldn't be such a big deal if the velcro on the CAP black fleece were black.


Reference CAPM 39-1
6.1.12.3. ...It will also have a 2 inch squared ultramarine cloth Velcro square flushed and centered above the last name tape on the wearer's right chest.

For additional referenceFrom AFI 36-2903
6.1.10.10 ...It will also have a 2 inch squared Velcro subdued cloth rank with a solid sage green background (no ABU pattern on background) flushed and centered above the last name tape on the wearer's right chest (Exception: Lieutenant General and General rank will be a 3 ¼ inch by 2 inch Velcro subdued cloth rank).

[Eclipse]

This is what happens when Etsy is considered a viable uniform source.

[pierson777]

Also, since "velcro" is a commercial brand name for hook and loop fasteners, as long as we're fixing things,
it's either "VELCRO®" or "Velcro^®" not "velcro".

Oh, NO!  I used Duragrip Brand hook and loop fastener tape on my uniform instead of Velcro which is what the manual said to use.  Do I need to swap that out for Velcro brand?

[HGjunkie]

Wow - I took my time putting the h&l's on and thought mine looks torn up because it doesn't lay
perfect on the hanger, that above looks like it was done with craft glue by "Mrs. Henderson's 4th grade Sewing Bees".

Even the stuff made by Propper is jacked up and not in alignment - I spent $70 on a new fleece just to find that out.

[Eclipse]

Also, since "velcro" is a commercial brand name for hook and loop fasteners, as long as we're fixing things,
it's either "VELCRO®" or "Velcro^®" not "velcro".

Oh, NO!  I used Duragrip Brand hook and loop fastener tape on my uniform instead of Velcro which is what the manual said to use.  Do I need to swap that out for Velcro brand?

The H&Ls you use must have the mil-spec label or you will be asked to leave the activity.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't really think the L2B meets the description of "similar to" the MA-1 or CWU 45/P or CWU 36/P "in design", because it has the epaulets.  I would never tell anyone not to wear it, but I would advice against buying the L2B with epaulets if you could just as easily buy the one without epaulets.  If you want a lighter-weight flight jacket, that's what the CWU-36/P is.  It's sometimes referred to as the summer weight jacket, but that's probably not an official name.

Point taken, but I have seen L2B's worn in CAP.  It really looks just like the MA-1 except for the epaulettes.

As far as a "woolly pully" for the G/W kit, do you mean a pullover sweater for the Aviator Shirt Uniform?  You can wear any "appropriate civilian outer garment."  I guess that means you can wear as sweater, as long as it's appropriate.

You're correct.  It's a classic style sweater, worn in armed forces, ES, LE and civilian communities.  Some have V-necks, some don't; some have epaulettes, some don't.

We cannot wear grade insignia on it though, even though we could when it was part of the CSU.  I have one which is black, Royal Canadian Navy surplus but fitted the bill for the CSU just fine, but would not fit the bill as regards wearing grade insignia on it with the G/W.

Grade insignia can also no longer be worn on the USAF cardigan if worn with the G/W.

[ProdigalJim]

>> Also, since "velcro" is a commercial brand name for hook and loop fasteners, as long as we're fixing things,
it's either "VELCRO®" or "Velcro®" not "velcro". <<

Not to be a pedant, but marks like this are governed by the Lanham Act, which calls on owners of protected marks to affix the (R) to notify the world of its ownership interest in the mark. Unless you personally are selling items made from the stuff or otherwise using it in a commercial fashion, you are under no similar obligation. (R)s and (C)s tell the world "I own this, mitts off," not "I know someone else owns this."

[SARDOC]

>> Also, since "velcro" is a commercial brand name for hook and loop fasteners, as long as we're fixing things,
it's either "VELCRO®" or "Velcro®" not "velcro". <<

Not to be a pedant, but marks like this are governed by the Lanham Act, which calls on owners of protected marks to affix the (R) to notify the world of its ownership interest in the mark. Unless you personally are selling items made from the stuff or otherwise using it in a commercial fashion, you are under no similar obligation. (R)s and (C)s tell the world "I own this, mitts off," not "I know someone else owns this."

Ten points for the use of the word "Pedant"  Thanks for playing.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Or "scotch tape" ("sellotape" in the Commonwealth) for any kind of cellophane tape..."kleenex" for any kind of paper tissue you blow your nose into...and, in a lot of the South, "Coke" for any kind of fizzy drink called "pop" or "soda" elsewhere in the country.

[Eclipse]

So 4 (or 5) is apparently the charm.

One looked "off", one was too small, one was the right size but I didn't roll the edge so it would unravel at
some point, and one rolled-over, sewn, then sewn to the H&Ls.

[Panache]

Where did you get the grade insignia with the "CAP" underneath it?

I know that V sells the "jacket tabs" with the velcro backing, but they say "CAP" on the bottom.  Did you cut that part off, or just buy a standard issue cloth insignia and sew hook tape to the back?

[Eclipse]

Standard insignia, cut to size, sewn to the hook tape.

So what you're looking at above is two standard cloth nametapes, cut to size to match my
blue field uniform's width, and a standard grade insignia.

[Papabird]

Standard insignia, cut to size, sewn to the hook tape.

So what you're looking at above is two standard cloth nametapes, cut to size to match my
blue field uniform's width, and a standard grade insignia.

That is what I did as well.  Pictures to come this afternoon.  I actually took the coat that had the H&L loop side already sewn on, cut the hook side to match and sewed the tapes & grade right to it.  Looks pretty good, and looks similar to Eclipse's.

[Garp]

Talked to Vanguard on this the other day and they apparently hope to have pre-made tapes and grade out shortly

[Garibaldi]

Is it only the Rothco that is authorized? I got my hands on a USMC fleece by Polartec and want to wear it. It's black but not fully fleeced, as there are places devoid of fleece on the front and sleeves. Does not preclude the sewing on of H&L for insignia.

[Eclipse]

Any black fleece is authorized.