Covers

[ol'fido]

[rant] And this seques into my other pet peeve.........the eternal Chief Syndrom.  I bet that wing (and a lot of other wings) has a bunch of cadets not finishing their Mitchell because they want the "cool" jobs an encampment.  Simple fix for this...........you must be an officer to be on encampment staff....period end of story.[/rant]

Agreed on that.  For some reason there seems to be an unspoken (somectimes) dictum that you're no longer "cool" once you've put on a cadet lieutenant's pip.

My first squadron produced a Spaatz, and she sure didn't get that by hovering in the SNCO grades.

The "no-one said no" camp is on the senior side too...given that, I should be allowed to wear this with the G/W uniform:



After all, it's grey, and no-one said "no."

I knew as soon as I saw a funny hat,especially a funny GRAY hat, that it would be Cyborg.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I knew as soon as I saw a funny bar,especially a funny GRAY hat, that it would be Cyborg.

Thank you sir...I do try to tweak the envelope now and then.

But really the silliness comes from the Texas-sized holes in 39-1.  The holes are already there.  I just walk through them now and again.

[EMT-83]

There is no requirement for a gray hat with the G/W. Any civilian headgear is authorized.

I don't mean to derail this discussion, but can you show me where that is stated in CAPM 39-1 or in an ICL?

I was just teasing Cyborg about his gray hat.

/derail

[spacecommand]

The hat makes an appearance in the 2012 and 2011 encampment photos, though you cannot tell if it is the same cadet from the 2011 encampment.  My guessing is that this is something that someone saw one year, then passed down the next year because they thought it was "cool" and no one bothered to put a stop to it.   

I've seen photos of uniform combinations by staff at some other encampments that make me go 0_o.  Especially since it can be almost hypocritical that the first time cadets who go to encampment are examined and re-examined on if they have the correct uniform items and if they are wearing the uniform correctly.

[Bobble]

The hat makes an appearance in the 2012 and 2011 encampment photos, though you cannot tell if it is the same cadet from the 2011 encampment.  My guessing is that this is something that someone saw one year, then passed down the next year because they thought it was "cool" and no one bothered to put a stop to it.   

I've seen photos of uniform combinations by staff at some other encampments that make me go 0_o.  Especially since it can be almost hypocritical that the first time cadets who go to encampment are examined and re-examined on if they have the correct uniform items and if they are wearing the uniform correctly.

I agree, it's hard to tell if it's the same cadet for both years.  In the 2011 picture I have seen, it appears to be an SM Service Cap emblem attached to the campaign hat.  In the 2012 picture (posted earlier), they have switched to a Cadet Service Cap emblem.  Which then begs the question, which emblem is the correct emblem? 

It isn't "almost" hypocritical, it is hypocritical.

[SarDragon]

As an aside:

It's Marine Corps, with the 's', forever and always. The singular and plural forms of corps have the same spelling, with the plural being pronounced as 'cores'.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

[AngelWings]

Man, some of you are seriously going way too hard on the cadet in the picture.

[PA Guy]

Man, some of you are seriously going way too hard on the cadet in the picture.

While a cadet at the level of the guy in the hat should know better the bulk of the fault lies with the seniors who allow it in spite of knowing better and displayed on their FB albums.  This is evidenced by wearing hard grade on ball and BDU caps. Seniors wearing AF style uniform who are obviously overweight and cadet basics not wearing grade insignia.  And we won't even go into the complete lack of knowledge of the Manual of Arms displayed by the color guard shown in the photo albums on FB and their knowledge of the Manual of the Guidon isn't far behind.  This is a leadership failure that starts at the top.  They have bigger problems than a funny looking hat.

[Private Investigator]

Man, some of you are seriously going way too hard on the cadet in the picture.

That is nothing compared to getting your picture taken, "with your finger on the trigger" in the military or law enforcement.   

Like Sun Tzu said, "when you lose, don't lose the lesson".

[AngelWings]

Man, some of you are seriously going way too hard on the cadet in the picture.

That is nothing compared to getting your picture taken, "with your finger on the trigger" in the military or law enforcement.   

Like Sun Tzu said, "when you lose, don't lose the lesson".

You're a NCO and an officer asks to take your picture, do you tell him "No sir, I will not take a picture, because I have a Mass State Trooper hat on."? My point is he doesn't have much control on the matter, if he's told to take a picture he will take it.

[jeders]

Man, some of you are seriously going way too hard on the cadet in the picture.

That is nothing compared to getting your picture taken, "with your finger on the trigger" in the military or law enforcement.   

Like Sun Tzu said, "when you lose, don't lose the lesson".

You're a NCO and an officer asks to take your picture, do you tell him "No sir, I will not take a picture, because I have a Mass State Trooper hat on."? My point is he doesn't have much control on the matter, if he's told to take a picture he will take it.

You completely missed the point.

You're a SNCO that SHOULD know what hats and insignia are and are not allowed to be worn on the uniform. However, instead of being an example and having integrity in the matter, you wear unauthorized items so you can look hard-kewl.

[lordmonar]

Man, some of you are seriously going way too hard on the cadet in the picture.

That is nothing compared to getting your picture taken, "with your finger on the trigger" in the military or law enforcement.   

Like Sun Tzu said, "when you lose, don't lose the lesson".

You're a NCO and an officer asks to take your picture, do you tell him "No sir, I will not take a picture, because I have a Mass State Trooper hat on."? My point is he doesn't have much control on the matter, if he's told to take a picture he will take it.

Were you there?
You think we are being hard on the cadet?
No......there are three levels of failure going on.
One.....a C/CMSgt shoudl know better
Two.....WHERE THE HELL IS THE ADULT LEADERSHIP?  Yes I can expect "kids" to be all about the cool factor.....heck I think it was pretty cool.....but really.......No cadet you can't be a command chief no matter how cool it is....and no chief you can't wear your smokey bear hat, yes I think they are cool too, but we really just can't do it.     It is our freaking job to put a stop to this stuff.
Three.....where is Wing/Region/NHQ?  Like I said before......If I were Gen Carr......people would be getting fired over this....not 2b'ed just removed from leadership positions.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

I guess I am a member of the Grey/White Brigade as my weight sorta went out of limits a couple years ago.  But sitting on a closet shelf is my Stetson from my Cav days, Crossed Sabers, Rank, Wings, and Regimental Crest.  39-1 does not say I can't wear it with the Grey White combo so why not? 

  Well 39-1 does not say I can, so my choice is to accept that if not specifically authorized, it's not.

[Eclipse]

39-1 does not say I can't wear it with the Grey White combo so why not? 

Well, it's a part from a military uniform, and 39-1 is clear we are not allowed to mix distinctive and military uniform parts.

There's also the issue that the only thing authorized would be a CAP ball cap.  So by the letter, your options with the G/W is ball cap or no cap.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

There's also the issue that the only thing authorized would be a CAP ball cap.  So by the letter, your options with the G/W is ball cap or no cap.

There is also the issue that 39-1 does not specify what kind of ball cap, or even what a "Civil Air Patrol Ball Cap" IS.

I believe the only prohibition is not to wear rank insignia on it.

Do they just mean the one from Vanguard? (vomitando)

Then there are these that pop up on Evilbay...





...or if you happen to live in FLWG...



...or even taking an obsolete CAP patch and fabric-gluing it to a plain "ball cap"....



...or even this Royal Australian Air Force utility cap, worn without insignia...I don't believe 39-1 prohibits non-US military items.



And not a grey one in the bunch...now may I have some Grey Poupon?

[Eclipse]

As you say, some wings have a definition of what a CAP ball cap is, and of course units can request permission to create one.

I just wear a plain dark blue ball cap and call it a day (and not with the G/W's, except when I have to for a specific activity).

I'd wear a flight cap with the G/W's if one was authorized, though.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As you say, some wings have a definition of what a CAP ball cap is...

Sometimes different INDIVIDUALS have their own definition...another Texas-sized hole in 39-1.

As well, the interpretation could include "civilian headgear" to mean any kind of hat without identifying military insignia, including foreign, or even a dreaded beret.

[Garibaldi]

Sort of on topic but even if it ain't it still burns my butt some...

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/news/?pa_members_hear_from_richardson_tuskegee_airman&show=news&newsID=13936

Take a look at the cadet holding the other end of the banner.

39-1! 39-1! 39-1! RTFM RTFM RTFM!!!

I understand the cadets wanting to wear a uniform to fit in but...

IT MUST BE COMPLETE!!! Especially if you are submitting a photo of said cadet to a National publication!

[lordmonar]

Or he's got a shoe waiver.

[Garibaldi]

Or he's got a shoe waiver.

Even so, I wouldn't have put him in front. Not knowing why, I jump to the illogical conclusion that someone thought it was a good idea. There's a photo out there somewhere of a bunch of our cadets, probably on our FaceBook page, and quite a few have their rank insignia on wrong.

Sorry, uniform wear is my hobby horse. It was, literally, beat into my psyche as a cadet.