Patches back on Air Force ABUs

[Stonewall]

As most of you know, when the Air Force transitioned to the ABU from BDUs, they excluded command and wing patches.  It looks like there is an interest in bring them back.  What do you think?

Flight suits, ABUs, patches: What do you think?
Staff report
Posted : Monday May 3, 2010 16:17:19 EDT
   
The Air Force lets airmen wear patches on flight suits, but not on ABUs.

Is the ban on ABU patches fair? Should wearers of the flight suit have to get rid of their patches, too? Or should the Air Force simply give the OK for patches, regardless of the uniform?

If the Air Force lifted the ban on ABU patches, which ones should be allowed? The Ranger tab? Unit morale patches?

Maybe you like the patch-less look because you don't have to change patches each time you change assignments.

Whatever you think about patches and wear rules, we want to hear from you.

Send your comments to brolfsen@airforcetimes.com. Please include your name, rank, career field and base. We might include your remarks in an upcoming story.

Reference:  http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/05/airforce_uniform_callout_043010/

TSgt Stonewall
Security Forces
Air Naitonal Guard

The best thing to come from the transition to ABUs is the exclusion of patches.  Cost, care, maintenance and the physical appearance of clutter are out of the equation now.  If Airmen are concerned about uniform bling they need to reevaluate their priorities and probably consider transferring to the Army where patches, badges, insignia and tabs are all the rave.  Simply give me a functional battlefield uniform and the tools to do my job and I'm confident most Airmen would be happy.  Save the money tax payers would spend on patches to outfit the entire Air Force, at 4 patches per Airman, and issue me a practical tactical vest, durable flashlight or radios that work and you certainly won't hear any complaints from me.

[RiverAux]

For those who think CAP people spend too much time worrying about uniforms, just wanted to note that the AF Times article soliciting views on what people would do if they were in charge of the AF had  "uniforms" as the 2nd thing on the list.  And that story was right next to one about the one that is the topic of this thread...

[Stonewall]

The topic of uniforms in the Air Force and CAP is utterly pathetic.  What ever happened to MISSION FIRST?  Obviously it has fallen by the wayside due to a highly critical topic that bears importance on National Security and the Global War on Terror.

Peoples' priorities are so far out of whack that I am almost embarassed to claim affiliation with the Air Force and CAP.

Patches are so irrelevant yet so costly, it should be a crime to consider this a #20 priority let alone #2.

So pathetic and embarassing.

[Eclipse]

Its not just the USAF - last week's front page headline in the Navy times was "Uniform Changes - Enough Already" (or something to that effect).

[mynetdude]

man why do they need more or less patches on every uniform? The ABUs are designed for use in combat, what about flight suits? Do they have to remove their patches before being deployed to a mission?

[MIKE]

Death to patches!

[MSgt Van]

That's why they're held on by velcro...
Dump all patches. All you need is a name tape, CAP tape, and rank (unless we can ditch the AF rank stuff too).

[mynetdude]

That's why they're held on by velcro...
Dump all patches. All you need is a name tape, CAP tape, and rank (unless we can ditch the AF rank stuff too).

Velcro is the way to go IMHO for every patch which will make changing out rank easier FWIW if we dump rank then the whole PDO goes out the window so it would be hard to do that.  I kinda like the rank, its the closest thing to being in the RM for me but I would not cry if we lost rank either as I am not noticeably progressing in my PD regularly anyway.

[lordmonar]

The topic of uniforms in the Air Force and CAP is utterly pathetic.  What ever happened to MISSION FIRST?  Obviously it has fallen by the wayside due to a highly critical topic that bears importance on National Security and the Global War on Terror.

Peoples' priorities are so far out of whack that I am almost embarassed to claim affiliation with the Air Force and CAP.

Patches are so irrelevant yet so costly, it should be a crime to consider this a #20 priority let alone #2.

So pathetic and embarassing.

Well in my neck of the woods we have the mission down pat.....so afterwards we kick back, have  few cold ones and talk about uniforms. 

Let's be happy that all we have to talk about is uniform issues.  Anyone out there not getting the mission done?  Anyone out there dreadfully in need of some training, or new equipment that is preventing you from sortieing ground teams or air craft?

If you don't want to talk about uniforms...don't....but don't be throwing around dispersions that we are not mission focused.

[mynetdude]

The topic of uniforms in the Air Force and CAP is utterly pathetic.  What ever happened to MISSION FIRST?  Obviously it has fallen by the wayside due to a highly critical topic that bears importance on National Security and the Global War on Terror.

Peoples' priorities are so far out of whack that I am almost embarassed to claim affiliation with the Air Force and CAP.

Patches are so irrelevant yet so costly, it should be a crime to consider this a #20 priority let alone #2.

So pathetic and embarassing.

Well in my neck of the woods we have the mission down pat.....so afterwards we kick back, have  few cold ones and talk about uniforms. 

Let's be happy that all we have to talk about is uniform issues.  Anyone out there not getting the mission done?  Anyone out there dreadfully in need of some training, or new equipment that is preventing you from sortieing ground teams or air craft?

If you don't want to talk about uniforms...don't....but don't be throwing around dispersions that we are not mission focused.

Uniforms may be an old topic, its still entertaining to see you all (and I) talk about it. We're getting our mission done regardless if we still have issues getting things done (I won't mention what happened today, it wasn't serious) I don't know how close to dreadfully in need of training we are in but I wouldn't say its severe enough that we can't do missions because we can.

[raivo]

False dichotomy.

Considering uniform changes doesn't preclude anybody from doing anything more important at the same time.

[JC004]

Kill patches. 

And kill patches when we go to the ABU, preferably sooner.

[JoeTomasone]

I personally don't care about more or less patches...  But I would fully stand behind putting everything on with Velcro.   

[mynetdude]

I personally don't care about more or less patches...  But I would fully stand behind putting everything on with Velcro.

would make my sew job a lot easier

[Stonewall]

No. It would require more sewing. Sewing velcro to uniform and every patch you end up wearing.

[SarDragon]

Sewing hook Velcro to patches, and getting it to look decent, is no picnic.

The feeder doesn't work well on the hook, and if you turn it over, then you take a chance on screwing up the patch.

[notaNCO forever]

I say no patches on abus it's a waste of money. I thought it was alot just to get my rank sown onto never mind how much all the patches would cost. In CAP it's one thing you only usually have a couple pairs of bdus but I have four pairs of abus I'd have to put patches on.

[lordmonar]

Sewing hook Velcro to patches, and getting it to look decent, is no picnic.

The feeder doesn't work well on the hook, and if you turn it over, then you take a chance on screwing up the patch.

That's why I use glue all! 

yes it does sometimes come off...but you can always glue it back.

[Rodriguez]

I think its funny how many different opinions the Air Force presents on the ABUs.
I dont understand what they were going for in the first place. They knew that airman complained about being hot in BDUs (I personaly love my BDUs) and yet they used the same material on the ABUs. They knew airman like velcro pockets, and they kept the buttons, they didnt even slant the pockets. They esentialy took a BDU, and changed the pattern to a tigerstripe version of the Army's ACUPAT. When the ABU came out the Air Force knew that the Army found that the ACUPAT dosnt work and yet they kept it. Now they want to put patches back on it. All they are doing is making a BDU with a color and pattern that "looks cool" and dosnt work. Whats the point? At least the BDUs camoflauge works. As for the patches i think the Army and The Marine Corps got it right. They either have them on velcro (you can change units all you want and never change the uniform) or they simply dont wear unit patches, as is the case with the Marine Corps.

[Hawk200]

I think its funny how many different opinions the Air Force presents on the ABUs.
I dont understand what they were going for in the first place. They knew that airman complained about being hot in BDUs (I personaly love my BDUs) and yet they used the same material on the ABUs. They knew airman like velcro pockets, and they kept the buttons, they didnt even slant the pockets. They esentialy took a BDU, and changed the pattern to a tigerstripe version of the Army's ACUPAT. When the ABU came out the Air Force knew that the Army found that the ACUPAT dosnt work and yet they kept it. Now they want to put patches back on it. All they are doing is making a BDU with a color and pattern that "looks cool" and dosnt work. Whats the point? At least the BDUs camoflauge works. As for the patches i think the Army and The Marine Corps got it right. They either have them on velcro (you can change units all you want and never change the uniform) or they simply dont wear unit patches, as is the case with the Marine Corps.

The Air Force actually used the same material in the ABU as what the Marine Corps used in their utilities pants. The Marines used a thicker material in their pants, because pants usually wear out faster. They used a lighter material in the shirts so that it would be a little cooler, and the shirt wasn't subjected to the same abuse that pants were. In an effort to field the uniform faster, the AF just used the pants material. There were plenty of complaints on how hot the uniform got because of it.

The ABU is essentially the BDU pattern with a few more pockets, and sized numerically instead of small, medium and large.

Correct on the camo colors. The Army is now fielding MultiCam to troops going to Afghanistan. It's hoped that once Congress mandates a common uniform again (or has it already been done? Haven't followed much on that lately) that it will be MultiCam. It's an effective pattern.

Velcro is not really an answer to it all. It snags on things, wears out, and generally isn't as promising as many think. I have a couple ACUs that the Velcro went south on during the deployment; it peeled away, or got so thin in spots that it won't hold a patch. Sticking to your buddy, or stripping his patch isn't funny. Both happened to me a number of times.

[wingnut55]

Gads not another uniform thing 

[tsrup]

Anyone that thinks that the ACU and ABU patterns aren't effective should check out the Navy's new NWU's.....

Just realize that it could be worse.  Much much worse. 

[SarDragon]

The Navy's pattern does exactly what it is supposed to do. I don't see many sailors trying to hide out in trees or sand.

[Hawk200]

Anyone that thinks that the ACU and ABU patterns aren't effective should check out the Navy's new NWU's.....

Just realize that it could be worse.  Much much worse.

Or you could realize what it's actually intended for. It's a camo pattern with a different purpose.

[tsrup]

yeah yeah I know, to hide stains and such...

Or to blend in with the deck on the skippers hallway..

[Hawk200]

yeah yeah I know, to hide stains and such...

And what's wrong with that?

[SarDragon]

yeah yeah I know, to hide stains and such...

Or to blend in with the deck on the skippers hallway..

Skippers (and by extension ships) don't have hallways, they have passageways. And they usually have blue tile.

[SJFedor]

yeah yeah I know, to hide stains and such...

Or to blend in with the deck on the skippers hallway..

bahahaha  :clap:

[Fuzzy]

Coulden't they just resolve themselves not to be messy saliors?

The pattern looks ridiculous. The reason it hides Oil Stains and Paint is because it looks worse then them.

Just wear Gray BDU's or something and change them at out when they look bad.

[Rodriguez]

Coulden't they just resolve themselves not to be messy saliors?

The pattern looks ridiculous. The reason it hides Oil Stains and Paint is because it looks worse then them.

Just wear Gray BDU's or something and change them at out when they look bad.

Because they can't. By the nature of their jobs sailors get stains and marks on their uniforms. If your in aircrew or maintinance your gonna get dirty simple as that. Its a great idea to make a uniform that hides most stains, it extends the use of the uniform. I think the Navy did well by the NWU. Its called "navy WORK uniform" its not intended to be a battle uniform. If a sailor is in some sort of combat arms job it is my understanding that they just wear some old DCUs or BDUs, or if they are attached to a Marine unit they wear MARPATs.

"change them out when they look bad"

...Yes, beacause we all have the money to be ordering uniforms left and right because theres tiny splats of oil, that are otherwise invisible unless your looking for them. Lets try some common sense...

[Krapenhoeffer]

Coulden't they just resolve themselves not to be messy saliors?

The pattern looks ridiculous. The reason it hides Oil Stains and Paint is because it looks worse then them.

Just wear Gray BDU's or something and change them at out when they look bad.

Because they can't. By the nature of their jobs sailors get stains and marks on their uniforms. If your in aircrew or maintinance your gonna get dirty simple as that. Its a great idea to make a uniform that hides most stains, it extends the use of the uniform. I think the Navy did well by the NWU. Its called "navy WORK uniform" its not intended to be a battle uniform. If a sailor is in some sort of combat arms job it is my understanding that they just wear some old DCUs or BDUs, or if they are attached to a Marine unit they wear MARPATs.

"change them out when they look bad"

...Yes, beacause we all have the money to be ordering uniforms left and right because theres tiny splats of oil, that are otherwise invisible unless your looking for them. Lets try some common sense...

From what I heard from my Navy friends, they have a woodland and desert version of the NWU. Granted, it's the same camouflage pattern as the MCCUUs, but "Navy-ized."

[raivo]

I've seen Navy officers wearing ACUs, which I thought was weird.

[Strick]

We need one Field uniform for all!!!!!!!   Ithink the AF should keep the wing patch

[Hawk200]

I've seen Navy officers wearing ACUs, which I thought was weird.

I've seen every branch of the military wearing ACUs. Most branches in person, others in photos. I guess it's a lot easier to get than some of the other branch utilities.

We need one Field uniform for all!!!!!!!   Ithink the AF should keep the wing patch

Keep in mind that the Air Force wears their wing patch differently than we wore ours. An Air Force wing patch has a specific shape, and is on a different area on the uniform.

[lordmonar]

When I was AD I loved my ABU's because of the lack of patches and easy care.

Now that I am out...the can do what they want.....I don't really care.

If they do allow patches...it should be limited to just one unit patch.

Knowing that someone is in the 36th Communications Squadron is an important bit of information....but do you also need to know that he is with the 36th Air Wing and PACAF?

[heliodoc]

Who's worrying about messy sailors?  CAP??

Anyone who been in the RM aviation maintenance field or even ground and weapons maintenance field is going to get MESSY!

CAPTalkers say what about messy?

The average CAPTalker here (unless they have been in the military) probable hasn't got a good picture what it is like tearing down a helo, an M1A1 tank, a HUMVEE, M249, M16, M4, M9, etc.....

Messy you say?  Hydraulic fluid, MIL 5606, MIL 23699, Aeroshell lube products, greases, trans fluid,  CLP , nasty dirty parts

Messy you say?  CAPTalkers need and an education on what makes a uniform messy and what the look like even after a few washings.  Some are still stained.  But we in RM know when to put a better uniform on when it is required....but thanks anyway, CAP, for your reminders on how we in the RM ought to be wearing our uniforms!!!

The military isn't always at some dog and pony show wearing their "Sunday best"  There doing what they do best!!!  Gettin dirty makin things run and flying..

Like Rodriguez says...like we all got money to be spending on uniforms left and right..

I will echo..........CAPers and especially CAPTalkers that think every day is a parade in the Blue and CSU's...GET some COMMON SENSE!

[Hawk200]

Who's worrying about messy sailors?  CAP??

Anyone who been in the RM aviation maintenance field or even ground and weapons maintenance field is going to get MESSY!

CAPTalkers say what about messy?

The average CAPTalker here (unless they have been in the military) probable hasn't got a good picture what it is like tearing down a helo, an M1A1 tank, a HUMVEE, M249, M16, M4, M9, etc.....

Messy you say?  Hydraulic fluid, MIL 5606, MIL 23699, Aeroshell lube products, greases, trans fluid,  CLP , nasty dirty parts

Messy you say?  CAPTalkers need and an education on what makes a uniform messy and what the look like even after a few washings.  Some are still stained.  But we in RM know when to put a better uniform on when it is required....but thanks anyway, CAP, for your reminders on how we in the RM ought to be wearing our uniforms!!!

The military isn't always at some dog and pony show wearing their "Sunday best"  There doing what they do best!!!  Gettin dirty makin things run and flying..

Like Rodriguez says...like we all got money to be spending on uniforms left and right..

I will echo..........CAPers and especially CAPTalkers that think every day is a parade in the Blue and CSU's...GET some COMMON SENSE!

Many of the CapTalkers here that have been speaking on this are current or former military, myself included. We've been there, done that.

Correct that military personnel get dirty, but you will rarely find military personnel with the lackadaisical attitude that many CAPpers have concerning things like insignia placement, or proper accoutrements.

After finishing a messy job, my First Sergeant, commander, platoon Sergeant, or even my section leader are not going to be concerned about me having 23699 on my boots or proseal on my pants. No matter how dirty I am, they are going to be concerned about me not having my nametag, my pants unbloused, or wearing  unauthorized boots. Messy is part of the job, being in incomplete uniform is a job not being done right.

On the flip side, I've seen people wearing a uniform that would make a proud poster, but I wouldn't trust them to poor water out of a boot when the instructions were on the heal. The lack of competence can go both ways.

The original post was on people's opinions as to whether or not they think the AF should go back to patches on ABUs. Despite what the opinions here are, it doesn't really matter. The AF is not going to look at CAPTalk for input on uniform policy.

[Dragon 3-2]

I dont understand why most people are so against patches, I for one love my unit patch, my drill team patch and my COS patch because of the time and effort it took to earn them and in the case of the unit patch design and get approved. if you don't want  extra patches on your uniform....don't wear them simple as that, some of us like have something unique about our uniforms.

as far as ABU's  and patches, I'm all for it, but  only your units patch and your parent organizations patch, ie 27th FS wears their patch and that of the 1st FW. 1st FW wears the wing patch and  i think 1st AF or ACC patch, etc

[Hawk200]

I dont understand why most people are so against patches, I for one love my unit patch, my drill team patch and my COS patch because of the time and effort it took to earn them and in the case of the unit patch design and get approved. if you don't want  extra patches on your uniform....don't wear them simple as that, some of us like have something unique about our uniforms.

It's not entirely a hatred of patches, it's a hatred of excess patches. The Air Force wore three, at most. We currently have options for up to four. That's a lot.

Many people get stuck on patch collecting, with all kinds of ideas on just having so many mean.

[Dragon 3-2]

2 on the blouse, and the wing patch, where's the fourth? sorry brains a little fried from 12 hours working at IHOP lol

[Hawk200]

2 on the blouse, and the wing patch, where's the fourth? sorry brains a little fried from 12 hours working at IHOP lol

Two on the shirt pockets, one above nametag, one on left sleeve. Of course, there is the flag, which is a total of five. Do you really need five patches? Actually, need?

A large number of patches says pretty much one thing.

[mynetdude]

2 on the blouse, and the wing patch, where's the fourth? sorry brains a little fried from 12 hours working at IHOP lol

Two on the shirt pockets, one above nametag, one on left sleeve. Of course, there is the flag, which is a total of five. Do you really need five patches? Actually, need?

A large number of patches says pretty much one thing.

You forgot 6th, squadron patch on left pocket IIRC (I don't wear a squadron patch, I haven't since I joined CAP but I am not about to put one on just yet cuz I may transfer again soon)

[Hawk200]

2 on the blouse, and the wing patch, where's the fourth? sorry brains a little fried from 12 hours working at IHOP lol

Two on the shirt pockets, one above nametag, one on left sleeve. Of course, there is the flag, which is a total of five. Do you really need five patches? Actually, need?

A large number of patches says pretty much one thing.

You forgot 6th, squadron patch on left pocket IIRC (I don't wear a squadron patch, I haven't since I joined CAP but I am not about to put one on just yet cuz I may transfer again soon)

No, I didn't forget. For one, the squadron patch doesn't go on the left pocket of our uniforms, it goes on the right. As to the placements:

  1  on right pocket
  1  on left pocket
  1 over nametag
  1 on left shoulder
  1 flag on right shoulder
----
  5 patches

The location above branch tape is reserved for personal qualification badges. No placement for a sixth patch is available.

[SarDragon]

2 on the blouse, and the wing patch, where's the fourth? sorry brains a little fried from 12 hours working at IHOP lol

Two on the shirt pockets, one above nametag, one on left sleeve. Of course, there is the flag, which is a total of five. Do you really need five patches? Actually, need?

A large number of patches says pretty much one thing.

You forgot 6th, squadron patch on left pocket IIRC (I don't wear a squadron patch, I haven't since I joined CAP but I am not about to put one on just yet cuz I may transfer again soon)

Note the bolded text. Both pocket locations are covered.

[Dragon 3-2]

well i agree the one above the name tape and possibly the flag are unnecessary and not how the AF wore their BDU's

but the other three should remain optional for BDU's and ABU'd or whatever uniform we get next ( praying for Multicam lol)

[mynetdude]

2 on the blouse, and the wing patch, where's the fourth? sorry brains a little fried from 12 hours working at IHOP lol

Two on the shirt pockets, one above nametag, one on left sleeve. Of course, there is the flag, which is a total of five. Do you really need five patches? Actually, need?

A large number of patches says pretty much one thing.

You forgot 6th, squadron patch on left pocket IIRC (I don't wear a squadron patch, I haven't since I joined CAP but I am not about to put one on just yet cuz I may transfer again soon)

No, I didn't forget. For one, the squadron patch doesn't go on the left pocket of our uniforms, it goes on the right. As to the placements:

  1  on right pocket
  1  on left pocket
  1 over nametag
  1 on left shoulder
  1 flag on right shoulder
----
  5 patches

The location above branch tape is reserved for personal qualification badges. No placement for a sixth patch is available.

I was gonna say "right" but without looking at 39-1 I had to take a guess since I don't wear a squadron patch at this time.  Squadron patch is optional AFAIK so I only wear 3 on my BDUs, flag, blue tapes above pocket and its done. The blue BDU shirt does not get the American flag so there's only two.

cloth insignias on the collar don't count right? Well they aren't patches...

[lordmonar]

. The blue BDU shirt does not get the American flag so there's only two.

?

I don't think that is right.

According to the Jan 2008 change letter....the flag goes on both the BDU and CAP Distinctive Field Uniform (AKA BBDU).

[Stonewall]

Isn't it amazing how the US Marine Corps, who doesn't authorize any patches on any uniforms (except flight suit) seems to do just fine?  They have about 1/4 of the badges the other branches do and none of those are even sewn on.  No identity crisis.  Never a problem recruiting.  Yet they still kick butt and take names.  The Marine Corps never has a problem with pride, identification or history.  So in my opinion, all those reasons for having patches are moot as far as I am concerned.

Perhaps we, and the other military branches, could take something from this.

[heliodoc]

I am not even voting....

Stonewall, THAT is a great idea!

1st CAP does it because they are 55K strong...... They could get it done in a hurry!!  Only a NB to go through   Less monkey business than SecDef sitting in front of Congress.  CAP would find a way to "Stonewall"  the elimination of bling (no pun intended!!)

The other RM branches .......well you know......THEY are steeped in MORE history than CAP!!

The USMC must be pretty practical or that ages old addage ..we are the smallest force with probably the smallest US funding

Perhaps, CAP, in the interest of community service, worry less and less about its "flashy bling" and start moving out smartly and working with less fanfare and "what about us" attitude and uniform craziness,

CAP....without uniforms...how will we be identified without our uniform or bling?   Again, referring to Stonewall's thread and the Marine Corps common sense......CAP could get a learn on from this!!

Let the flamin begin!!

[mynetdude]

. The blue BDU shirt does not get the American flag so there's only two.

?

I don't think that is right.

According to the Jan 2008 change letter....the flag goes on both the BDU and CAP Distinctive Field Uniform (AKA BBDU).

Yep it sure does say so, dangit... my seamstress only picks up garments once a week so to have them add the reverse flag would not be possible so I will have to have it added when I get back.

[tsrup]

Isn't it amazing how the US Marine Corps, who doesn't authorize any patches on any uniforms (except flight suit) seems to do just fine?  They have about 1/4 of the badges the other branches do and none of those are even sewn on.  No identity crisis.  Never a problem recruiting.  Yet they still kick butt and take names.  The Marine Corps never has a problem with pride, identification or history.  So in my opinion, all those reasons for having patches are moot as far as I am concerned.

Perhaps we, and the other military branches, could take something from this.

Thats because their tradition dictates pride in being a Marine above all else.  Hence no unit distinguishing bling on their uniforms.
The AF (and by transitive the CAP) and Army have different values and traditions, not better or worse, just different.

[WheelsUp]

Ah, uniform discussions. Gotta love 'em.

I've been in CAP four years, and I've seen more uniform changes, tweaks, un-tweaks and adjustments than the Army had in more than two decades. The rate of uniform changes seems to have dropped off since Oct. 2007 (coincidence? I think not...), but it's still out of control.

For a volunteer organization, we sure have a big wardrobe!

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy CAP, but I'm here for the mission, not to keep Vanguard in business.

[PHall]

Ah, uniform discussions. Gotta love 'em.

I've been in CAP four years, and I've seen more uniform changes, tweaks, un-tweaks and adjustments than the Army had in more than two decades. The rate of uniform changes seems to have dropped off since Oct. 2007 (coincidence? I think not...), but it's still out of control.

For a volunteer organization, we sure have a big wardrobe!

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy CAP, but I'm here for the mission, not to keep Vanguard in business.

You know, no one is forcing you to read this. Don't like uniform discussions, then don't read them.
Wasn't that easy?

[NHQ-OS-126 Frank]

Hello,

Does somebody know if CAP is going to ABU's ?  When yes,   when ?     We are having difficulties getting BDU's and black boots for the cadets here overseas.

[raivo]

Does somebody know if CAP is going to ABU's ?

Nope. Nobody.

[WheelsUp]

Ah, uniform discussions. Gotta love 'em.

I've been in CAP four years, and I've seen more uniform changes, tweaks, un-tweaks and adjustments than the Army had in more than two decades. The rate of uniform changes seems to have dropped off since Oct. 2007 (coincidence? I think not...), but it's still out of control.

For a volunteer organization, we sure have a big wardrobe!

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy CAP, but I'm here for the mission, not to keep Vanguard in business.

You know, no one is forcing you to read this. Don't like uniform discussions, then don't read them.
Wasn't that easy?

PHall: I do it because I need the dose of humor every so often.

[a2capt]

Sales! the Final Frontier.

These are the transactions of the salesforce, Vanguard. Their five-year exclusive contract, to explore CAP members wallets, seek out new revenue and new logos from National HQ, to boldly embroider what no uniform has seen before.

[WheelsUp]

a2capt: Well played, sir.

[JC004]

Sales! the Final Frontier.

These are the transactions of the salesforce, Vanguard. Their five-year exclusive contract, to explore CAP members wallets, seek out new revenue and new logos from National HQ, to boldly embroider what no uniform has seen before.

I feel like I should create a YouTube video from this...

[a2capt]

LOL.. lets do it. I'm sure NHQ will be thrilled..  Maybe another letter would be issued. LOL.

[JC004]

Letter?!  Fair use!  Then there's parody.  SCOTUS comes down on the side of parody.  Even justices need to have funny things to watch.

[a2capt]

Oh, I didn't mean letter in the C&D regard, I meant another one of those that were probably released to "clarify" some misconceptions on the whole issue ..