So I have been trying to get a picture in my mind of what all of the uniforms look like and when they are worn. I have been having some trouble finding some so I have come here.
Correct me if any of my information is wrong of when we can wear these and what they look like!!
Ok so the Class B Uniform is classified as a Service Uniform and one we would wear to unit meetings and conferences etc. This uniform is a short and long sleeved uniform. Tie is mandatory with long sleeves but optional with short.
(http://puu.sh/gYeaB/ef2ca0b2c9.jpg)
Next up we have the Semi-Formal which is considered a Dress Uniform and is worn to social functions. The Semi-Formal is worn with a long sleeve, white shirt...This uniform is the equivalent to a tuxedo. (Question about this uniform: Where are us cadets able to get the blue blazer?)
(http://puu.sh/gYe0f/5fa73bd701.jpg)
Now I know about the BDU and the Mess Dress Uniforms. I was not able to find information about the Class A Service Uniform although.
Would someone be able to educate me about anything I may have missed and also about the Class A Uniform?
CAPM 39-1
That is the exact place I pulled this information from.....except I can't find the class A uniform..
The Service dress uniform or Class is in 39-1 and it is before the class b uniforms. It is in the first couple of chapters in regards to AF style uniforms. Since the manual is a pdf control-f us your friend.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/24zenh5.jpg)
This is the Class A uniform, or service dress. It's a long sleeved blues shirt with a Class A jacket (old or new style for cadets, new style for seniors). Details on accoutrements can be found in section 4.1.5.4. The jackets can be bought from AAFES and some other stores that may carry them.
Thank you C/2d Lt. and the rest of the you guys for the answers.
Now, some cadet staff members I have seen at my squadron wear the Class A dress uniform when we have to wear blues for the meeting. Is it really our choice to wear Class A or Class B? Some cadet staff wear it and some do not..
Quote from: Jakemiller31u on April 02, 2015, 01:55:06 AM
Thank you C/2d Lt. and the rest of the you guys for the answers.
Now, some cadet staff members I have seen at my squadron wear the Class A dress uniform when we have to wear blues for the meeting. Is it really our choice to wear Class A or Class B? Some cadet staff wear it and some do not..
That's something you need to ask your squadron leadership about.
Negative. The service dress uniform is not soley a long sleeve shirt with the coat. It can be any blues shirt.
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 03:42:58 AM
Negative. The service dress uniform is not soley a long sleeve shirt with the coat. It can be any blues shirt.
First I'd ever heard of that.
A blue shirt uni is just a service uni.
To go to service dress uni status, you need the coat and tie.
39-1 repeatedly refers to service dress as Class A, now, while a mere blue shirt is referred to as Class B. They're really different aminals.
The service dress uniform requires a the blues uniform with tie and coat. It is not required when wearing the class a uniform to be in a long sleeve blue shirt.
Go back and read what was posted before trying to correct.
Quote from: Plane on April 02, 2015, 01:22:25 AM
(http://i57.tinypic.com/24zenh5.jpg)
This is the Class A uniform, or service dress. It's a long sleeved blue shirt with a Class A jacket (old or new style for cadets, new style for seniors). Details on accoutrements can be found in section 4.1.5.4. The jackets can be bought from AAFES and some other stores that may carry them.
Please, please use the correct terminology for uniform items. This stuff is already confusing, clarity is important.
A coat is not the same as a jacket. Likewise, a blouse is not a coat or a shirt, a hat is not a cap, etc.
When in doubt, look at what it is called in 39-1, confirm by referring to the label sewn to the item.
(The blue uniform item with the silver buttons depicted in your post is a "coat.")
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 03:42:58 AM
Negative. The service dress uniform is not soley a long sleeve shirt with the coat. It can be any blues shirt.
Yes, technically a short or long sleeved shirt can be worn, but it can look odd to have no cuffs under the coat.
Quote from: Plane on April 02, 2015, 01:18:37 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 03:42:58 AM
Negative. The service dress uniform is not soley a long sleeve shirt with the coat. It can be any blues shirt.
Yes, technically a short or long sleeved shirt can be worn, but it can look odd to have no cuffs under the coat.
If you have your coat sleeves correctly done and are wearing the correct long-sleeve blues shirt, you should not see the cuffs anyway:
Quote from: CAPM 39-1
With arms hanging naturally, long sleeves will end ¼ to ½ inch below the wrist, but not be visible below the sleeves of the service coat.
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 03:42:58 AM
Negative. The service dress uniform is not soley a long sleeve shirt with the coat. It can be any blues shirt.
This is true. But, BITD, it did matter. The Air Force used to have a 'non-convertible' blue summer shirt that didn't have a top button nor epaulets, so since it didn't support a tie, one had to wear the long-sleeve blue shirt with the service jacket. This short-sleeve, open collar shirt (I THINK -- could be wrong so probably am), became known as the 'Class B' summer uniform. In the '80's, the Air Force developed the new-style short-sleeve blue shirt that we know today, and since it has the top button, it can be worn under the service coat since it supports a tie.
Having a hard time finding a good pic with the old shirts. Here is one from the old TV show Project UFO, with the characters wearing the old-style short-sleeve shirts.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v0fV15P7uQo/StdJykyVvaI/AAAAAAAAGfQ/_qGORKOCj54/s400/ufo+cast.jpg)
LST,
You beat me to that quote from 39-1. Also if one looks at the photos with the Service Coat, no shirt sleeve cuff is visible.
Quote from: LSThiker on April 02, 2015, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: Plane on April 02, 2015, 01:18:37 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 03:42:58 AM
Negative. The service dress uniform is not soley a long sleeve shirt with the coat. It can be any blues shirt.
Yes, technically a short or long sleeved shirt can be worn, but it can look odd to have no cuffs under the coat.
If you have your coat sleeves correctly done and are wearing the correct long-sleeve blues shirt, you should not see the cuffs anyway:
Quote from: CAPM 39-1
With arms hanging naturally, long sleeves will end ¼ to ½ inch below the wrist, but not be visible below the sleeves of the service coat.
What I more meant was that if you're able to see into the sleeve (i.e. with arms on a desk) and see no sleeves it looks odd, in my personal opinion.
Quote from: Plane on April 02, 2015, 04:59:59 PM
What I more meant was that if you're able to see into the sleeve (i.e. with arms on a desk) and see no sleeves it looks odd, in my personal opinion.
It might look odd to you, but completely authorized in both CAP and USAF. I actually prefer short sleeves under a Service Coat in the summer and long sleeves in the winter. Mostly so if/when I take the coat off, I can remove the tie, and go open collar (in summer). But if I was doing Color Guard, I would always wear long sleeves (holding the colors shows more arm than normal).
It is up to the local commander and/or the individual.
Like was said above, it depends vastly on the squadron. At my squadron only C/MSgt and above wear the class a jacket during normal meetings, except in special cases, like colorguard, parades etc. but other than that, the short sleeve blues shirt is usually worn, for both males and females.
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 04:30:45 AM
The service dress uniform requires a the blues uniform with tie and coat. It is not required when wearing the class a uniform to be in a long sleeve blue shirt.
Go back and read what was posted before trying to correct.
I did.
What was posted before was what the various blues uniform combos are called, and what they consist of.
Then you wrote a confusing post, inferring that the "service dress uniform", or "it", "can
be any blues shirt".
I'm sorry, but the service dress uniform
cannot "be" any blues shirt.
It can "include", or "comprise", or "be put together with" any blues shirt, but it can't simply "be" any blue shirt.
It takes the coat, too.
(And pants or a skirt, amongst other things!)
That's where my confusion arose. Just a poor choice of words that threw me.
I'm waiting for the first CAP cadet to show up to a meeting with just a really long blues shirt and no bottoms. "But CAPTalk said..." ;D
Quote from: Toth on April 02, 2015, 06:38:48 PM
Like was said above, it depends vastly on the squadron. At my squadron only C/MSgt and above wear the class a jacket during normal meetings, except in special cases, like colorguard, parades etc. but other than that, the short sleeve blues shirt is usually worn, for both males and females.
And the definition of uniform is?
Even though I was required to do that same practice as a cadet, that was a practice I trashed when I became a SQ/CC.
Texas, are ya a lawyer?
Ya sound like one! >:D
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on April 02, 2015, 07:15:43 PM
Texas, are ya a lawyer?
Ya sound like one! >:D
Ouch! Them's fighting words! You can trash my boonie. But don't ever liken me to one of those! ;D
Quote from: TexasBEAST on April 02, 2015, 06:51:06 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 04:30:45 AM
The service dress uniform requires a the blues uniform with tie and coat. It is not required when wearing the class a uniform to be in a long sleeve blue shirt.
Go back and read what was posted before trying to correct.
I did.
What was posted before was what the various blues uniform combos are called, and what they consist of.
Then you wrote a confusing post, inferring that the "service dress uniform", or "it", "can be any blues shirt".
I'm sorry, but the service dress uniform cannot "be" any blues shirt.
It can "include", or "comprise", or "be put together with" any blues shirt, but it can't simply "be" any blue shirt.
It takes the coat, too.
(And pants or a skirt, amongst other things!)
That's where my confusion arose. Just a poor choice of words that threw me.
I'm waiting for the first CAP cadet to show up to a meeting with just a really long blues shirt and no bottoms. "But CAPTalk said..." ;D
You must be easily confused then.
Quote from: LSThiker on April 02, 2015, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: Toth on April 02, 2015, 06:38:48 PM
Like was said above, it depends vastly on the squadron. At my squadron only C/MSgt and above wear the class a jacket during normal meetings, except in special cases, like colorguard, parades etc. but other than that, the short sleeve blues shirt is usually worn, for both males and females.
And the definition of uniform is?
Even though I was required to do that same practice as a cadet, that was a practice I trashed when I became a SQ/CC.
And then re-instated by the next?
The whole point of local option....is.....local....option.
There are many purposes to the uniform other then "to present a uniform appearance".
While, I'm not a big fan of the "Staff Uniforms"......I don't bent out of shape over it.
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2015, 08:20:10 PM
And then re-instated by the next?
Nope. But then, I probably sent a strong message to the cadets and seniors that has been passed down by saying "If the cadet staff needs to wear a different uniform in this squadron, then they are probably not effective leaders".
Quote
The whole point of local option....is.....local....option.
There are many purposes to the uniform other then "to present a uniform appearance".
While, I'm not a big fan of the "Staff Uniforms"......I don't bent out of shape over it.
I understand that and realistically do not get bent out of shape over it. Nevertheless, it is one of those silly things that has been pushed through the years. When was the last time you stood in a USAF formation in a normal squadron with the commander, officers, and flight sergeants wearing one uniform and the rest of the enlisted wearing another uniform?
At my retirement ceremony!!! Air crew vs ground crew.
Uniforms are all about status and one ups man ship.
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2015, 11:05:55 PM
At my retirement ceremony!!! Air crew vs ground crew.
Uniforms are all about status and one ups man ship.
I said "normal squadron" :)
Quote from: LSThiker on April 02, 2015, 11:10:55 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2015, 11:05:55 PM
At my retirement ceremony!!! Air crew vs ground crew.
Uniforms are all about status and one ups man ship.
I said "normal squadron" :)
LOL.
I would also point out.....that the U.S. Navy most certainly has different uniforms for enlisted, SNCOs and Officers....so I would go kind of light on that "effective leader" dig.....or maybe you are onto something. :)
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2015, 08:17:06 PM
You must be easily confused then.
It's true; it's true.
Quote from: Plane on April 02, 2015, 04:59:59 PM
Quote from: LSThiker on April 02, 2015, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: Plane on April 02, 2015, 01:18:37 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 03:42:58 AM
Negative. The service dress uniform is not soley a long sleeve shirt with the coat. It can be any blues shirt.
Yes, technically a short or long sleeved shirt can be worn, but it can look odd to have no cuffs under the coat.
If you have your coat sleeves correctly done and are wearing the correct long-sleeve blues shirt, you should not see the cuffs anyway:
Quote from: CAPM 39-1
With arms hanging naturally, long sleeves will end ¼ to ½ inch below the wrist, but not be visible below the sleeves of the service coat.
What I more meant was that if you're able to see into the sleeve (i.e. with arms on a desk) and see no sleeves it looks odd, in my personal opinion.
I'm just sort of sitting here, scratching my head and trying to figure out what assignment you must have that requires you to look up other people's sleeves.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
"The <Sleeve Police (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yRRqxJHQmA)>
They live inside of my desk..."
Quote from: LTC Don on April 02, 2015, 02:13:59 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 02, 2015, 03:42:58 AM
Negative. The service dress uniform is not soley a long sleeve shirt with the coat. It can be any blues shirt.
This is true. But, BITD, it did matter. The Air Force used to have a 'non-convertible' blue summer shirt that didn't have a top button nor epaulets, so since it didn't support a tie, one had to wear the long-sleeve blue shirt with the service jacket. This short-sleeve, open collar shirt (I THINK -- could be wrong so probably am), became known as the 'Class B' summer uniform. In the '80's, the Air Force developed the new-style short-sleeve blue shirt that we know today, and since it has the top button, it can be worn under the service coat since it supports a tie.
Having a hard time finding a good pic with the old shirts. Here is one from the old TV show Project UFO, with the characters wearing the old-style short-sleeve shirts.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v0fV15P7uQo/StdJykyVvaI/AAAAAAAAGfQ/_qGORKOCj54/s400/ufo+cast.jpg)
One other thing - when the non-convertible blue summer shirt was worn, the shirt worn with the service coat did not have epaulets, patch pockets, or anything else - it was just a blue long-sleeve dress shirt. You could not take off the service coat and still be in uniform; there was no place to wear insignia. IIRC, the new long-sleeve shirt w/epaulets, etc., took quite a while for AF to allow for CAP use. I have somewhere in my collection a 39-1 that details wear of the service coat, the convertible short sleeve shirt, the non-convertible short sleeve shirt, the dark blue long-sleeve shirt, etc., but has just a "This page intentionally left blank" where the instructions for wearing the long-sleeve light blue shirt w/epaulets would go.
(Did that make any sense at all?)
Jack
Yes sir, it sure does. When I joined as a cadet in the late '80s, we cadets did not have convenient access to the regs. (Everything had to be hardcopy back then, and somebody had to pay for every one of those.) So if anyone ever did pony up and buy a copy of any given reg, that reg tended to stay in circulation and use long past its technical expiration date. (We were teens in the '80s: how were we gonna afford to repurchase all the pertinent regs every time NHQ decided to revise them?) Anyway, I came across several old copies of 39-1 that had ALL SORTS of odd uniform combinations. Without having the context for such a smorgasbord of options, I was completely bewildered as a cadet. I resolved right there and then to determine what were the real bare minimum number of useful uniforms that I would need for CAP, and to totally ignore all the rest. It was just too much for my developing mind to process.
I did KINDA regret missing out on the dark blue longsleeve shirt era, though...
Quote from: TexasBEAST on April 04, 2015, 01:19:27 AM
Yes sir, it sure does. When I joined as a cadet in the late '80s, we cadets did not have convenient access to the regs. (Everything had to be hardcopy back then, and somebody had to pay for every one of those.)
Blue Binder of Death from the Hock Shop...
Those were the days.
I have paper or scanned of every version of CAPM 39-1.
I really miss the dark blue shirt. It was one of my favorite uniform combinations, ever.
Quote from: Salty on April 04, 2015, 02:44:15 AM
Quote from: TexasBEAST on April 04, 2015, 01:19:27 AM
Yes sir, it sure does. When I joined as a cadet in the late '80s, we cadets did not have convenient access to the regs. (Everything had to be hardcopy back then, and somebody had to pay for every one of those.)
Blue Binder of Death from the Hock Shop...
Those were the days.
$30 for a 1 year subscription from the CAP Bookstore. I found an old binder when cleaning out the old MDWG HQ's and printed out all the Regs and Manuals. 1 Large toner later they were all complete.
That's a lot of ink.
Quote from: Salty on April 04, 2015, 02:48:44 PM
That's a lot of ink.
Yeah, But than one someone quotes a regulation I can tell him to show me. When I was a Wing HQ, I actually had a sign above my desk "Before you quote a regulation, please read it"