wear of CAP uniform before/after events

[Rob Sherlin]

  I've read that you should not be in uniform after 1 hour of leaving a CAP event (function, meeting). I didn't see anything that stated anything about the wearing of a uniform before hand. If there is a regulation prohibiting this, I'd like to know. I tend to think that wearing the uniform when your out and about would be good PR (especially for recruiters) considering a lot of people I've talked to don't even know CAP exists.
  I don't really see a problem with it as long as you're not in uniform going into bars, brothels, or doing something that would dishonor CAP. As long as you maintain a proper appearance, it might be a good thing. I can understand the afterward thing (they probably made that rule because someone went to a bar or something after), but what if you have a lot of running around to do, and don't have time to run home and change before hand?
  Does anyone know if this is OK? or is it taboo?

[Eclipse]

I don't believe you'll find it anywhere prescribed as it is for after, however I think most members go by the 1-hour before guideline.

For the most part, your uniform is not supposed to be worn outside of CAP activities - this is where common sense kicks in.

If you're meeting other squadron members for dinner before a meeting, no issue, and yes, the exposure is great PR.

But if your meeting is at 7pm, and you're leaving the house at 0800 to spend the day shopping, no, you shouldn't be in your uniform, ditto for wearing it at work all day just because you have a meeting that night (wearing it during private employment is specifically prohibited, anyway).

[Rob Sherlin]

  Thanks! I was a liitle un-clear on that. It kinda' blows considering we have the right to wear the uniform, and we have to purchase them ourselves, but rules are rules whether they're written or not. Frankly, it's not a problem for me. I work as an auditor at a hotel, and if I'm running late, I just have to bring along a regular white dress shirt to change into real quick, and I look like I'm wearing just a pair of blue slacks, etc. If it's BDU's, I just take off the shirt, then I'm just a guy wearing BDU pants, boots and a black tee (my employer is ok with this). I know I'm not totaly out of uniform, but then again, I'm technicaly not in uniform because there's nothing on me that states CAP, Squadron, Wing or anything...or is even that a no no?

[JoeTomasone]

I would have to call that a reasonably safe skirting of the regs.

My personal guideline is that I wear the uniform from the closest practical time to the start of the CAP activity until the closest practical time after the close of the event.    If I am on the way home from a meeting and the wife calls and asks me to pick up milk on the way home, I will stop at the store.   I attempt to balance the practical aspects of life against the intention of the regulations to not have you wearing the uniform outside of CAP activities.   

[Rob Sherlin]

hey Joe
   BigMojo said I should get in touch with you because I was thinking of relocating to the Tampa/Clearwater area. He said he was the Eastern part, but you might be able to tell me what the area I'm looking at is like as far as rent in different areas and what the neighborhoods are like.

   Thanks for the input on the wearing of uniforms, I try not to, but sometimes you end up in those situations (like having to run for milk in between, or car trouble, etc.) where you can't avoid it. I'd rather make a slight change so I'm not in uniform (technically), than to go home, make a complete change, and be late for work. I just wasn't sure about the manual because it only stated about after and not before, and in some cases, I can see where it would be good for PR. I wasn't trying to state that someone should wear their uniform all day, or when nothing is going on or anything. Just if you had to make a few stops here and there, and it was out of the way and to time consuming to go all the way back home to change. On the other hand I really didn't see the difference of someone doing that with an excuse of travel and prep time, and the guys I see on the web wearing the uniform to a ball game, or members who will attend air shows in uniform even though CAP doesn't have a booth or stand there. See, for an air show,  I would go ahead and say yes, it's OK to wear the uniform and represent something you should be proud of, but that doesn't mean it is OK. So, you see why I was a little confused on the whole "when is it OK" issue. That's why I ask and get input from guys like you who know.

[jeders]

Actually you will find that rule in the regs. It's in CAPM 39-1. The section on when to wear and not wear the uniform.

[Flying Pig]

I really think it boils down to common sense.   There have been many times that I have had to stop off at the store on the way home.  I live about 1 hr from the Sq. location and sometimes have had to come down to the meeting an hour or two earlier to run some errands.  I say "come down" because I live in the mountains.  My uniform is sharp and squared away.  There is nothing wrong with it.  I am not going to bring a suit case with me to change in and out of clothes because someone thinks I should strip out of it as soon as the closing formation is over.  Use common sense about where you are going.  Don't go to the store and by a case of Budweiser, but there is nothing wrong with using your time wisely and not making CAP any more of a strain than it already is on some people.

I imagine the intent of the regs was to discourage people from wearing their uniform as part of their regular dress on a daily basis.  Because I know there are a few of you out there who would!

[BuckeyeDEJ]

If I'm in the BDU, I don't wear the shirt and cap until I'm actually at a CAP activity. I won't wear it if I have to make a stop before or after.

In blues or in a flight suit, if I need to make a stop beforehand, I don't feel so bad about it -- because it's a more proper public picture of CAP, for one.

Why not the BDU, you ask? Camouflage has been used for so many things that it dilutes any meaning it might have for CAP. Heck, it's the "solidarity" color for the United Mine Workers, and you can buy camo stuff at the mall -- it's "fashionable" for some (dunno why). Even some police departments wear BDU-like uniforms on a routine basis.

Plus, Clearwater, Fla., where I am, is a big Coast Guard town, so the blues are distinguishable enough and clearly recognizable. The BDUs aren't. (And there's a fake navy running around town talking about space aliens, I hear....)

[O-Rex]

Plus, Clearwater, Fla., where I am, is a big Coast Guard town, so the blues are distinguishable enough and clearly recognizable. The BDUs aren't. (And there's a fake navy running around town talking about space aliens, I hear....)

Not to mention that CENTCOM is a stone's throw away. . .

I don't live in a "G.I. town" and am not a big fan of drawing attention to myself.  I don't lounge-around in uniform, and didn't when I was on active-duty. The only time folks at home actually saw me in uniform was in pictures, or stepping off the airplane from wherever I was traveling from (this was back in the day when you had to travel in Class-A's if you were traveling on military orders.)

Now, I go to the activity, come home, change clothes and go about my business. If I go to a CAP event across town, and am doing other stuff afterward, I'll change into civies immediately after the event.  If it's after work, I go to the activity, change and participate.

[notaNCO forever]

 If I am going to be going to be stopping somewhere before a CAP activity I will bring my uniform and change at the event. If I know I'm going somewhere after a CAP activity I bring civvies and change before leaving. I'll wear my uniform if I have to stop somewhere after a CAP activity if I don't have civvies to change into.

[Rob Sherlin]

  I can understand if you don't mind the hassle of bringing along a complete change of wear, and changing right before and after an event. I was stating what Lt. Steht was talking about. I really don't see it as such a big no no to wear your uniform a bit earlier if you know it's going to be a big hassle to change before hand. As long as you keep the proper appearance, and don't do anything that would portray CAP in a negative way, I really don't see the harm in it. As I stated before, I can see someone wearing their uniform more in a case like what was mentioned, than someone wearing their uniform to a ball game or an air show that CAP isn't involved in. Heck, if you want to get that strict about it, there's probably guys out there who wear their black CAP polo with jeans that are out and about. It may not be BDU's or an AF style uniform, but it is still part of one of the uniforms.

[DC]

If I have an errand to run before a meeting, like running to Staples to make copies or something like that, then chances are I'll wear my uniform. My squadron also has some after-meeting customs, many of the SMs go to Denny's to get dinner, the Cadet Staff all go to Cold Stone for Ice Cream, no one stops to change, and it has actually be a good PR tool for us.

As long as you aren't going to a bar, or other place where wearing your uniform just isn't appropriate I don't see any reason you cannot make a stop before or after a meeting for simple convienience.

There is no reason to wear your uniform all day though, I know a few people that pack their uniforms in their cars in the morning, go to work, then go straight to the meeting and change there.

Again, as long as you portray a good image and don't do anything to make CAP look bad then there is no problem.

[Rob Sherlin]

  That's probably the main point I'm trying to get at. I've done some research on uniform wear, downloaded the manual, read it, know it probably needs to be updated, and see things on the web that get me confused. I see members wearing AF style uniforms, and woodland BDU's, when you can see there is NO WAY they can meet the height and weight requirements to do so (I myself need to try to come down to weight, even though my build is pretty heavy as it is without the fat). I see members wearing uniforms at ball games, at air shows where CAP isn't involved (it's pretty easy to check who was involved on the web). There's even questionable photos on boards here on captalk that are against said reg. I myself, tend to think that you should be able to wear your uniform to a ball game, or an air show (especially an air show....even if CAP isn't involved....it's a lot of what we're about), as long as you keep up a proper apearance and attitude that's positive towards CAP.I know it draws attention, and a lot of you may not like that, but it also draws interest and questions, which is good for PR and recruitment. So, I really don't see it as a problem as long as you're presentable. Obviously (according to web images), a lot of these regulations are definitely not enforced anyway!

[DNall]

The only uniform that says "no unnecessary stops en route" is the green flight suit. Anything else could be worn to dinner before/after, whatever. The only restriction is not certain types of events or activities that aren't appropriate.

[Rob Sherlin]

  I can definetly see that. I've seen military personel in uniform in stores and malls and such, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone in a flight suit outside of an airfield. I think if I saw someone wearing a flight suit in the market, I'd probably start looking for a plane in the parking lot.   

[JayT]

  I've read that you should not be in uniform after 1 hour of leaving a CAP event (function, meeting). I didn't see anything that stated anything about the wearing of a uniform before hand. If there is a regulation prohibiting this, I'd like to know. I tend to think that wearing the uniform when your out and about would be good PR (especially for recruiters) considering a lot of people I've talked to don't even know CAP exists.
  I don't really see a problem with it as long as you're not in uniform going into bars, brothels, or doing something that would dishonor CAP. As long as you maintain a proper appearance, it might be a good thing. I can understand the afterward thing (they probably made that rule because someone went to a bar or something after), but what if you have a lot of running around to do, and don't have time to run home and change before hand?
  Does anyone know if this is OK? or is it taboo?

It's pretty clearly stated in 39-1 when and why you can wear the uniform.

I never really brough the 'It's good PR' argument, someone care to explain it better to be?

I don't understand why you believe that CAP members should be allowed to wear the uniform to ball games or shopping or what not. Honestly, I don't see to many regular military types doing that much these days.

[DNall]

It's pretty clearly stated in 39-1 when and why you can wear the uniform.

I never really brough the 'It's good PR' argument, someone care to explain it better to be?

I don't understand why you believe that CAP members should be allowed to wear the uniform to ball games or shopping or what not. Honestly, I don't see to many regular military types doing that much these days.

If you spend any time around a military base, you'll see quite a lot of it. When you wear a uniform all the time, it's just cloths. There's no reason you shouldn't wear it from work to the store or anything else. I've worn ACUs to a football game (granted it was A&M vs Army), dress blues to weddings & non-military formal events, we're encouraged to wear service dress to church one day a year. If that's all fine for the real military, why would it not be fine for CAP?

Honestly there aren't too many rules about when you can't wear a military uniform, just that you're responsible for your conduct when you do. We where uniforms enough though that we don't really want to wear them when we don't have to, not unless there's a good reason (and half-price tickets to a baseball game is a good reason).

I can see where it needs to be a little tighter for CAP cause we don't have any UCMJ to hold you to, and the novelty of the uniform hasn't quite worn off. But it doesn't need to be taken too far either.

[Pumbaa]

Can anyone point me to a uniform thread?

[Rob Sherlin]

  OK, the question is not why I think it's ok to wear the uniform to ball games and such, it's why the senior members in photographs I see think it's ok to do so. So, when someone new (like me) comes about, they get confused by what they're reading and what they see.
   I stated you should be able to wear the uniform to events other than CAP ones, because it would be good for PR. A lot of people will be apt to get in conversation with you because you're in uniform, and be informed about CAP (it would help to have business cards too). When I mention CAP to a lot of people, they have no clue what it is, or that it even existed. When they're told, they like the idea that such an organization exists for more humanitarian causes within our own country. This could lead to recruitment. I'm finding that representation and education about the CAP brings about interest. Even people who knew about CAP, were thinking about joining at one time and didn't, didn't do so because they didn't have anyone to answer their questions, and they didn't know where to go to find things out (they thought it was like regular service, and had to go through boot camp and everything).
   Anyway, I went back to CAP 39-1 and found that you can wear your uniform to an air show that CAP has no involvement in, as long as it's at a military installation.

[Eclipse]

   Anyway, I went back to CAP 39-1 and found that you can wear your uniform to an air show that CAP has no involvement in, as long as it's at a military installation.

And you have your Squadron Commander's permission.