VSAF Uniform

[Falshrmjgr]

Nope, the USAF will say that our current library cards can get us on base and that we wont be doing any job requiring network access.

Funny, I thought I read somewhere specifically they had mentioned IT support....  hard to do IT support without network access.....


#!/bin/bash
/etc/init.d/network stop

[RiverAux]

One possible reason for the new uniform shirt is that it doesn't have your rank on it like many of the CAP polo shirts do.  Since the intention of the new uniform is to divest CAP of any military image, having the rank on there would cause untold chaos within the AF, possibly leading to the reabsorption of the AF by the Army.   

What polo shirts have rank on them?

You're right, they're not SUPPOSED to have rank on them, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it there on a few people.  Didn't recall the reg enough to realize it was wrong.  Now I know. 

[SAR-EMT1]

Nope, the USAF will say that our current library cards can get us on base and that we wont be doing any job requiring network access.

Funny, I thought I read somewhere specifically they had mentioned IT support....  hard to do IT support without network access.....


#!/bin/bash
/etc/init.d/network stop

Depends. I know of some FSC - Family support centers that are not on the 'military' network ae: no CAC involved.
But then again I could be totally wrong, since we dont even know what it is we will be doing yet.

Im going to go to the corner, shut up, and color.

[Ricochet13]

Just received this regarding CAP-VSAF.

[sardak]

A "VSAF Clarification" letter has been sent to the BOG and National Board answering questions regarding the new program.  Here is the paragraph regarding uniforms.

The selection of the distinctive polo and khaki uniform, rather than a military-style uniform, was a conscious decision as well.  Since it is anticipated that members will frequently work side-by-side Air Force civilian employees and enlisted personnel, many of whom may not be familiar with CAP's rank structure and because members may be providing customer service to junior enlisted personnel or dependents, we did not want the uniform to become an obstacle that distracts from the support our volunteers will provide to the Air Force through this program.

The rest of the letter is in the VSAF thread in the Lobby.
Never mind.  Ricochet included it in his post.

Mike

[mikeylikey]

^ That thing about the uniform means either CAP'ers will be working "dirty" jobs, or will be taking orders from Junior Enlisted personnel.  I am all for the new shirt and khakis, but if we are working in the Base Ops (like the letter said) the dress requirements are usually more than "business casual".  I know in my area the AF civilians working in the HQ section, or services section all wear suits/ Ties and the ladies wear equivalent.  The guys and ladies cleaning the floors are wearing khakis.  YMMV

[JohnKachenmeister]

A "VSAF Clarification" letter has been sent to the BOG and National Board answering questions regarding the new program.  Here is the paragraph regarding uniforms.

The selection of the distinctive polo and khaki uniform, rather than a military-style uniform, was a conscious decision as well.  Since it is anticipated that members will frequently work side-by-side Air Force civilian employees and enlisted personnel, many of whom may not be familiar with CAP's rank structure and because members may be providing customer service to junior enlisted personnel or dependents, we did not want the uniform to become an obstacle that distracts from the support our volunteers will provide to the Air Force through this program.

The rest of the letter is in the VSAF thread in the Lobby.
Never mind.  Ricochet included it in his post.

Mike

So... can someone tell me why our existing golf shirt combo was not appropriate for this mission?  It certainly meets the criteria cited by NHQ.

[mikeylikey]

^ Vanguard.  Simple as that.  Makes you think......who at NHQ has a family member working for Vanguard. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

^ Vanguard.  Simple as that.  Makes you think......who at NHQ has a family member working for Vanguard. 

That was my thought, exactly.  The golf shirt has no rank and appears to be about equal to the new uniform on a business-casual plane.  Plus, the golf shirt has the advantage to being similar to an Air Force uniform worn by recruiters.  You know... one team, one fight, one uniform??

This new uniform has no purpose other than enriching Vanguard. 

Tell me again how "Integrity" is a core value.

[tkelley004]

A "VSAF Clarification" letter has been sent to the BOG and National Board answering questions regarding the new program.  Here is the paragraph regarding uniforms.

The selection of the distinctive polo and khaki uniform, rather than a military-style uniform, was a conscious decision as well.  Since it is anticipated that members will frequently work side-by-side Air Force civilian employees and enlisted personnel, many of whom may not be familiar with CAP's rank structure and because members may be providing customer service to junior enlisted personnel or dependents, we did not want the uniform to become an obstacle that distracts from the support our volunteers will provide to the Air Force through this program.

The rest of the letter is in the VSAF thread in the Lobby.
Never mind.  Ricochet included it in his post.

Mike

So... can someone tell me why our existing golf shirt combo was not appropriate for this mission?  It certainly meets the criteria cited by NHQ.

Got to concur here, don't know why "blue and grey" were not used. I'll have to ask first chance I get!

Tim Kelley, Lt Col, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Wright-Patterson Composite Sq

[Gunner C]

Do you honestly believe some Air Force officer said 'Man, CAP can't get there C&C correct, so lets design  them another uniform."

As a matter of fact, I do.

[Gunner C]

You guys talk about relaxing this polo-shirt thing and allowing CAP members to wear the blues? I think that will depend on how many fatties participate. Fat and slovenly people jump in on VSAF, everyone willl stay in the polo shirt. Period.

Fat = Slovenly

Did you really mean to say that?  I happen to be one of those fat guys.  Unfortunately, I don't move very well any more.  I used to run 2-5 miles a day to keep in shape.  It's just my metabolism, buzz.  It happens between 40 and 50 - especially if you're disabled.  I've got more time under a T-10 than you've got in a T-shirt.

With that, I've still got more to offer than most of you 20-ish ectomorphs.  Age and skill always trumps youth and agility.  BTW, LeMay was a fatty. [/drift]

[JohnKachenmeister]

You guys talk about relaxing this polo-shirt thing and allowing CAP members to wear the blues? I think that will depend on how many fatties participate. Fat and slovenly people jump in on VSAF, everyone willl stay in the polo shirt. Period.

Fat = Slovenly

Did you really mean to say that?  I happen to be one of those fat guys.  Unfortunately, I don't move very well any more.  I used to run 2-5 miles a day to keep in shape.  It's just my metabolism, buzz.  It happens between 40 and 50 - especially if you're disabled.  I've got more time under a T-10 than you've got in a T-shirt.

With that, I've still got more to offer than most of you 20-ish ectomorphs.  Age and skill always trumps youth and agility.  BTW, LeMay was a fatty. [/drift]

Got yer back, Gunner!

The discussion isn't "New silly uniform vs. AF blues," since we already HAVE a uniform that meets the stated criteria that NHQ laid out for the new uniform.  When I first read the VSAF release, I assumed "Polo" shirt was another term for the "Golf shirt." 

Placing CAP members in no-rank golf shirts to serve in VSAF positions makes sense.  Saying you want members to help the USAF but that they have to get a new (and ridiculous-looking) uniform from Vanguard in order to do so is a death blow to the program before it is even born.

Which strikes me as a cool and creative name for this new uniform... The "PAU," for "Program Abortion Uniform."

[mikeylikey]

^ PAU......hope it catches on!

I agree that requiring a new shirt and new pants when we had similar shirts and pants is silly.  (Almost as silly as that letter trying to tell us the reason was so that Junior Enlisted guys are not confused by CAP Rank).  You know what.......this would be a perfect time for the organization to get rid of Rank altogether.  They either do it now, when there is an appearant rhyme and reason to it, or we embrace the CAP rank. 

I would like an answer to a question I brought up before.  What benefits will CAP-VSAF participants receive while on base?  I only ask because I remember reading that Army Volunteers on Army Posts received a CAC card, and had full access to AAFES to purchase whatever they wanted, full access to MWR services etc.  The only thing they could not use was the Commissary.  It was a recruiting tool to bring volunteers into Family Readiness Groups and MWR functions.  I totally expect CAP-VSAF people to get no less than that.  At the very least, they should be allowed at the local O-Club (since most clubs allow GS-7 and above in, and CAP members are considered GS-7 right?!?), access to purchase whatever at AAFES, use of the Gas station, access to all MWR functions, and the theatre.  I would hope they also receive a CAC card.  It would be a real shame for them to drive to work all day at the base, only to have to sit in line for 30 minutes to get a visitors pass each and every day.   

This program will die quickly after take-off if members are expected to work 9-5, and can't even go to the AAFES Burger King for their lunch.  (I wish they would contract out to a different fast food joint, I am really getting sick of BK!)


Oh ya, uniforms!  If they really go through with this new shirt and Khakis, it will be a HUGE disservice to all of us, if NHQ does not then eliminate the current polo and Grey pants.  Why would we ever need both.  This can either cost us tons of money, or can cost us tons of money for a long time.  Elimination of the current polo would only cost the membership now, not future members!

Uniform Committtee....take note!

[afgeo4]

^ Vanguard.  Simple as that.  Makes you think......who at NHQ has a family member working for Vanguard. 

That was my thought, exactly.  The golf shirt has no rank and appears to be about equal to the new uniform on a business-casual plane.  Plus, the golf shirt has the advantage to being similar to an Air Force uniform worn by recruiters.  You know... one team, one fight, one uniform??

This new uniform has no purpose other than enriching Vanguard. 

Tell me again how "Integrity" is a core value.

This might be looked at from another perspective.

I believe that since there's a budget for VSAF from the DoD side, the budget will probably include uniforms for CAP-VSAF members. Could it be that USAF will issue these polo/khakis to those who are selected to do the job?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Mikey:

I don't think you need an ID card to make purchases at Burger King, or from AAFES concessionaires in the Mall of the BX.

CAP members on the VSAF program should be entitled to all benefits, MWR, BX, Gas Station, etc.  I don't think we can get Commissary and Class 6 privileges, probably because of some different laws.

[mikeylikey]

^ There is a budget?  I must have missed that.  What needs budgeted?  I doubt there will be any expenses to this.  Unless they pay per diem for a member to eat on base, and travel expenses to/from.  But then I can see this program being open only to those members who meet on an AF base already for their weekly CAP meeting, and the logic will be, you don't get reimbursed for weekly meetings, no reimbursement for VSAF.

I would love for AF to provide the uniform!  

[JohnKachenmeister]

^ Vanguard.  Simple as that.  Makes you think......who at NHQ has a family member working for Vanguard. 

That was my thought, exactly.  The golf shirt has no rank and appears to be about equal to the new uniform on a business-casual plane.  Plus, the golf shirt has the advantage to being similar to an Air Force uniform worn by recruiters.  You know... one team, one fight, one uniform??

This new uniform has no purpose other than enriching Vanguard. 

Tell me again how "Integrity" is a core value.

This might be looked at from another perspective.

I believe that since there's a budget for VSAF from the DoD side, the budget will probably include uniforms for CAP-VSAF members. Could it be that USAF will issue these polo/khakis to those who are selected to do the job?

I think if that were the plan, they would have put that in the news release.

You know...

"We've got good news, and bad news.  The bad news is we want you to work more for free but this time in an uglier uniform.  The good news is your ugly uniform will be free."

[afgeo4]

Mikey:

I don't think you need an ID card to make purchases at Burger King, or from AAFES concessionaires in the Mall of the BX.

CAP members on the VSAF program should be entitled to all benefits, MWR, BX, Gas Station, etc.  I don't think we can get Commissary and Class 6 privileges, probably because of some different laws.

I completely agree.

On an off-shoot... what uniform is worn in poor weather conditions? I doubt people will be wearing a polo shirt in Alaska in winter while performing outside duties.

[mikeylikey]

Mikey:

I don't think you need an ID card to make purchases at Burger King, or from AAFES concessionaires in the Mall of the BX.

All installations are different.  For example some of the ones I have been too, you need an ID to get in the PX door, and once inside, you will find the BK and vendors.  I have also been to some that have a food court that allows whomever in to dine.

I think at Wright PATT anyone is allowed to order food in that tiny (one of smallest I have ever seen) food courts.  

I would just like to see those involved get the benefits that should go with the volunteer work they will be doing.  Dining at a DIFAC for example would be a huge benefit, I know the Army allowed civilian volunteers in most, I am not sure what the AF does in regard to civilians and their dining facilities.