Wear of improper uniform - What do the rules say?

[PilotMan]

I have always permitted new cadets to wear their uniforms with the items that we issues, while waiting on VG orders.  They just don't get promoted until their uniform is complete.  In the meantime, they can wear the rest properly.  Of course others here disagree.

Yes.....Greatly Disagree.  If you had a set of loaner BDU's with proper badges and a nameplate that said "Newbie" it would be way more acceptable. 

Anyway... Most of the time there are delays in new cadets getting the stuff together......Its the cadets own laziness that have caused the delays.  I can have a set of correct BDU's together in one week.  Is not very hard to accomplish. 

[jimmydeanno]

We issue everything, and have to wait on the nametag/nametape, which we order.  In 15 years, nobody has ever condemned the practice, and after running several highly successful cadet programs it seems the method works pretty well.  To me, it's more important to get a new cadet into uniform as quickly as possible.  A missing nametag a week after joining isn't a big deal.  If it's not on there by the time you want to be promoted, then that's a different story.

There's a difference between the reality of the world and being the person who is determined to be more reg orthodox than anyone else.  The cadet program is a learning process and it takes time.  Getting the uniform together is one of the steps for promotion, so we'll start there.  In the meantime, they can learn how to wear it and reach that goal when they get there. 

There are units who have cadets held at C/AB for years because they get so hung up on the uniform issue that they loose sight of real goals of the program.  "The creases aren't sharp enough", "The insignia were 1/32" off", "It had a wrinkle on the back from driving in the car", etc., etc..  To me, that crap is ridiculous and contrary to the goals that we're trying to accomplish in the program. 

[SamFranklin]

I agree with jDeano's point that pursuing the big picture is more important than perfect fidelity to a CAP regulation. YMMV. 

But here's a thought experiment. Suppose a new 39-1 came out that basically codified the "Get the new cadet into uniform as quickly as possible... a missing nametag ins't a big deal in the two weeks or so...."   And for good measure, suppose CAP-USAF signed off on that rule.

Were that to happen, who here would still object to the overall philosophy Jdeano expressed in the preceding post?

[Eclipse]

I have always permitted new cadets to wear their uniforms with the items that we issues, while waiting on VG orders.  They just don't get promoted until their uniform is complete.  In the meantime, they can wear the rest properly.  Of course others here disagree.

That's perfectly reasonable - or some units have nametapes and tags that say "cadet", use one from a cadet that has left, etc.  I've Photoshopped
a fair number of nametapes and tags over the years as well - look fine from 10 feet.

But the units that let cadets walk around in BDU pants and gym shoes, or variations on that - no, that's the wrong message.  Better to have
them show up in a white dress shirt and black pants.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And that alone was reason enough to watch the show regardless of any technical errors.

Word.

[Private Investigator]

I have always permitted new cadets to wear their uniforms with the items that we issues, while waiting on VG orders.  They just don't get promoted until their uniform is complete.  In the meantime, they can wear the rest properly.  Of course others here disagree.

That's perfectly reasonable - or some units have nametapes and tags that say "cadet", use one from a cadet that has left, etc.  I've Photoshopped
a fair number of nametapes and tags over the years as well - look fine from 10 feet.

But the units that let cadets walk around in BDU pants and gym shoes, or variations on that - no, that's the wrong message.  Better to have
them show up in a white dress shirt and black pants.

+1 I visited a Cadet Squadron once that had so many people in various phases of BDU wear. Since both Cadets and Senior Members had nothing on the BDUs I did not know who was who.   

[PilotMan]

I agree with jDeano's point that pursuing the big picture is more important than perfect fidelity to a CAP regulation. YMMV. 

But here's a thought experiment. Suppose a new 39-1 came out that basically codified the "Get the new cadet into uniform as quickly as possible... a missing nametag ins't a big deal in the two weeks or so...."   And for good measure, suppose CAP-USAF signed off on that rule.

Were that to happen, who here would still object to the overall philosophy Jdeano expressed in the preceding post?

If this was the rule................Fine.............Im dealing with a DCC that is clearly and knowingly breaking the rules (on more than one issue)

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If this was the rule................Fine.............Im dealing with a DCC that is clearly and knowingly breaking the rules (on more than one issue)

If that is the case, said DCC should not be a DCC.

S/he, among other things, is setting a very bad example.

One of the first things you learn at Squadron Leadership School is to lead by example.

If someone in a position of authority is basically saying "to heck with the regs," that is not setting a good example.

[lordmonar]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

[PilotMan]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

I might tend to agree.......................BUT!  Notice the big but.......39-1 is very clear:

"COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

Any less on a uniform would be in violation.   

I think when it comes to cadets, following the rules to the "T" makes them appreciate their uniforms even more when they finally wear them properly for the first time.  Just the words, "You look sharp" from the DCC means the world to them!! 

In my experience, most of the delays in name tapes and other accouterments are the laziness of the cadet.  After a period of time they want to be like the other cadets.  This in my experience is the driving force that gets them to want to advance and move forward hence the saying "can lead a horse to water".

[Garibaldi]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

I might tend to agree.......................BUT!  Notice the big but.......39-1 is very clear:

"COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

Any less on a uniform would be in violation.   

I think when it comes to cadets, following the rules to the "T" makes them appreciate their uniforms even more when they finally wear them properly for the first time.  Just the words, "You look sharp" from the DCC means the world to them!! 

In my experience, most of the delays in name tapes and other accouterments are the laziness of the cadet.  After a period of time they want to be like the other cadets.  This in my experience is the driving force that gets them to want to advance and move forward hence the saying "can lead a horse to water".

In which case your CC needs to have a discussion with your DCC and an edict needs to be made that cadets who do not have a full uniform will not be allowed to wear one, not to meetings, not to activities, not nowhere not nohow. Period. Full stop. Italicized. Bold and underlined. It will give the cadet something to shoot for in their upbringing.

[PilotMan]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

I might tend to agree.......................BUT!  Notice the big but.......39-1 is very clear:

"COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

Any less on a uniform would be in violation.   

I think when it comes to cadets, following the rules to the "T" makes them appreciate their uniforms even more when they finally wear them properly for the first time.  Just the words, "You look sharp" from the DCC means the world to them!! 

In my experience, most of the delays in name tapes and other accouterments are the laziness of the cadet.  After a period of time they want to be like the other cadets.  This in my experience is the driving force that gets them to want to advance and move forward hence the saying "can lead a horse to water".

In which case your CC needs to have a discussion with your DCC and an edict needs to be made that cadets who do not have a full uniform will not be allowed to wear one, not to meetings, not to activities, not nowhere not nohow. Period. Full stop. Italicized. Bold and underlined. It will give the cadet something to shoot for in their upbringing.

They have an interim uniform to wear:  Bluejeans, Black T, Tennis-shoes.  This is another reason they want to advance and be like the veteran cadets and be part of the group.  We always make sure that they all interact to feel like part of the group to reinforce the bonds.  We don't want them to feel like newbies or outsiders.

[lordmonar]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

I might tend to agree.......................BUT!  Notice the big but.......39-1 is very clear:

"COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

Any less on a uniform would be in violation.   

I think when it comes to cadets, following the rules to the "T" makes them appreciate their uniforms even more when they finally wear them properly for the first time.  Just the words, "You look sharp" from the DCC means the world to them!! 

In my experience, most of the delays in name tapes and other accouterments are the laziness of the cadet.  After a period of time they want to be like the other cadets.  This in my experience is the driving force that gets them to want to advance and move forward hence the saying "can lead a horse to water".

The USAF regs and AFI say the same thing.
And I agree that making them wait....and wear the alternate unifrom.....does make following the rules more important.  I however do understand why some units don't do it that way....and frankly....for the most part it really is just a non issue.

As for the DCC who does not follow the regs......fire him......it is that simple.  That goes for everyone.....CAP (and the USAF) would be a lot better if we just stood up to what is right and stepped in and correct the problem.

Wing/Group need to be more in to their subordinate units cookies more often....and see how they do buisness and make corrections as needed.