Wear of improper uniform - What do the rules say?

[PilotMan]

Here's the dilemma......I am of the opinion that every uniform should be 100% proper before a new or existing cadet is allowed to wear them.  We have had some cadets show up with no, some, or other military branches, including rank on recycled BDU's.  I have dealt with this by asking the cadet to take the BDU blouse off.  Of course I explain to them that this is incorrect and they need to correct the problems before being allowed to wear them.

To my dismay, it was now brought to my attention that the cadets would be allowed to wear these improper uniforms by the DCC.  I was irate to say the least.  This undermined my authority and in my opinion is a disgrace to the uniform.     

What is the official rule on this if there is one?  Without causing an international incident I would like to back this up with the written word even though I don't think I should need to.

Thoughts Please. 

[MSG Mac]

The uniform regs and specifications for wear are shown, described, and illustrated in CAPM 39-1. If you have a cadet or senior member wearing an incorect uniform-call them on it. If they are wearing the insignia of the Armed Forces, it is a felony. In pragmatic means though. some of these cadets are probably getting these uniforms through a DRMO issue to your Wing or squadron or through the local Army-Navy store. I would suggest purchasing a couple of seam rippers, and show the member how to remove the offending insignia. Give them the address for Vanguard and tell them to order name tapes, CAP Tape, and insignia, as needed. Tell them to wear something else to the meeting, until the problem is fixed.

[PilotMan]

Thank you for the quick reply. 

I realize that 39-1 is the key to correct wear on the uniforms.  Could you elaborate on the incorrect part of the wearing of the uniform?  Example: a uniform with partial correct patches..... No name.....etc.

Is there a regulation that specifically spells out that partial or incorrect uniforms are not allowed.   

Need ammo to take into the fight here. 

Thank you for informing me of the felony issue for the military badges.

[SarDragon]

COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.

If it doesn't say you can, then you can't.

The manual prescribes the specific combinations and parts thereof. That's your authority to hand out corrections.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The reg states this is the only way to wear the uniform, and compliance is mandatory.

Wearing any other branch insignia other than the one you are currently assigned can get going arrested, granted with the age of most cadets, that isn't likely to happen. But, the reg should still not be deviated from aside from what has been put out by official wing or through higher headquarters by official memorandum. At minimum though, a cadet should not wear more than a sterile uniform, no other patches, just blank until they get the proper insignia.

[Garibaldi]

Thank you for the quick reply. 

I realize that 39-1 is the key to correct wear on the uniforms.  Could you elaborate on the incorrect part of the wearing of the uniform?  Example: a uniform with partial correct patches..... No name.....etc.

Is there a regulation that specifically spells out that partial or incorrect uniforms are not allowed.   

Need ammo to take into the fight here. 

Thank you for informing me of the felony issue for the military badges.

I do have to ask...what authority is the DCC undermining? Are you a cadet or a senior? What position do you hold?

Anyway, being a uniform nutzi, I am always on uniform patrol for incorrectly placed rank insignia, total proper wear of the uniform, and whatnot.
CAPM 39-1 outlines in the first paragraph that compliance with the manual is mandatory, which means everyone wears the uniform properly. It's even spelled out in the cadet oath that the cadet will wear his/her uniform properly.

The national commander has passed down his recommendation that every member wears the uniform properly.

An incorrect uniform is an incomplete uniform, in my eyes. All patches on the BDU will be CAP-authorized. The cadets need to take the Armed Forces insignia off the BDU post-haste. The DCC needs to be made aware that not only do incomplete uniforms reflect badly upon the organization, it sets the mind that it's OK to skirt the rules.

If the DCC argues about it, show him/her the first paragraph where it states COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY.

I know, kids want to wear the uniform ASAP to fit in, but unless they are taught the right way to wear it, it looks bad. I've been on both sides of the argument, as a DCC and a new cadet.

Really, it's the unit CC's ultimate responsibility to ensure that the rules are being followed. But trust me, the fight isn't worth it in the long run. However, you can impress upon the cadets individually the importance of wearing the uniform properly by dressing properly yourself. Don't make it a federal case; just a few kind words about how important it is for everyone to look his or her best as part of their ongoing training, and point out some of the better examples of uniform wear. There is a chart that each member gets in their CAP notebook that outlines what goes on the uniform and where. MSG says take a seam ripper and show them how to use it. I agree. Just tell them that wearing the patches is improper and show them how to rip them off CAREFULLY. If the DCC makes a stink, again, show him/her the first paragraph of 39-1 where it says COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY.

[lordmonar]

+1
We solve this issue at our squadron by haveing a "TANGO" uniform....that is a white shirt and geans....until they have a completed uniform.

On the other side of the argurment.

As Garibaldi said......who are you in relation to the DCC?

If you work for him...then the proper person to take this question to is your squadron commander.

[PilotMan]

We do the same with the prospective cadets as well.... Black T with jeans....... Until recently that is!!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

39-1 has some Texas-sized holes in it, but this is one case where it is rather cut-and-dried.

Your opinion that a uniform should be 100% correct before the cadet wears it isn't just a good idea.  It's regulation.

Pictures can tell a story.  Show your cadets the pictures in 39-1 of what a correct uniform, with authorised insignia, looks like.

Cobble together a quick-and-dirty list of what they'll need for BDU's, taking a "K.I.S.S." approach:

Name tape
CIVIL AIR PATROL tape
Wing patch
U.S. Flag patch
Collar brass (CAP cutouts or relevant rank insignia)

I think most of us have had uniform changes in CAP we haven't liked...but you have to roll with it if you want to continue in this organisation.

The sooner a cadet learns that, the more s/he will get out of CAP.

I also have to ask what authority is your DCC undermining?  A DCC is a deputy.  I've been a DCC.  You're still answerable to the squadron CC.  If you are the squadron CC and you've got a DCC doing an end-run around you, you need to talk to said DCC about the chain of command, and what part of COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY does s/he not understand?

[stillamarine]

I would warn against having the mind frame that wearing Armed Forces patches and such are an automatic felony. You have to show that the person's intent was to impersonate a member of the armed forces. Simply wearing it is not a crime. Otherwise I'd be able to make felony cases on most of the homeless in my city. Not to mention the hipsters and emo crowd.

[PilotMan]

I would warn against having the mind frame that wearing Armed Forces patches and such are an automatic felony. You have to show that the person's intent was to impersonate a member of the armed forces. Simply wearing it is not a crime. Otherwise I'd be able to make felony cases on most of the homeless in my city. Not to mention the hipsters and emo crowd.

I would think they would have to show intent to impersonate or act as though they were in a capacity?  That would be obvious.

[Garibaldi]

I would warn against having the mind frame that wearing Armed Forces patches and such are an automatic felony. You have to show that the person's intent was to impersonate a member of the armed forces. Simply wearing it is not a crime. Otherwise I'd be able to make felony cases on most of the homeless in my city. Not to mention the hipsters and emo crowd.

I would think they would have to show intent to impersonate or act as though they were in a capacity?  That would be obvious.

I have heard that the reason people portrayed as military on TV and in movies who wear their rank and whatnot incorrectly is for just this reason, that they won't get confused with RL military.

[ColonelJack]

I had heard that as well ... along with the idea that they'd have to wear at least one ribbon or badge that nobody on active duty could possibly earn (i.e., Civil War service medal or some such).

However, that isn't the case, as I have learned.  The law regarding impersonation of a military officer is specifically written to allow actor portrayals of military officers in all uniforms and with all proper appurtenances, so long as the service is not disparaged by the portrayal.  (It's when the service isn't being portrayed in a favorable light that you'll see uniform violations the size of Nebraska or something.)

Jack

[spacecommand]

However, that isn't the case, as I have learned.  The law regarding impersonation of a military officer is specifically written to allow actor portrayals of military officers in all uniforms and with all proper appurtenances, so long as the service is not disparaged by the portrayal.  (It's when the service isn't being portrayed in a favorable light that you'll see uniform violations the size of Nebraska or something.)

Jack

The Surpreme Court ruled that clause to be unconstitutional in Schacht v. United States.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=398&invol=58

[lordmonar]

I would warn against having the mind frame that wearing Armed Forces patches and such are an automatic felony. You have to show that the person's intent was to impersonate a member of the armed forces. Simply wearing it is not a crime. Otherwise I'd be able to make felony cases on most of the homeless in my city. Not to mention the hipsters and emo crowd.

I would think they would have to show intent to impersonate or act as though they were in a capacity?  That would be obvious.

I have heard that the reason people portrayed as military on TV and in movies who wear their rank and whatnot incorrectly is for just this reason, that they won't get confused with RL military.

No....the law has an specific expection for movies, theater and TV.  They wear it wrong because they don't bother to get it right.....it looks good enough for the costume people and the director....it is good enough.

[Private Investigator]

I would warn against having the mind frame that wearing Armed Forces patches and such are an automatic felony. You have to show that the person's intent was to impersonate a member of the armed forces. Simply wearing it is not a crime. Otherwise I'd be able to make felony cases on most of the homeless in my city. Not to mention the hipsters and emo crowd.

I would think they would have to show intent to impersonate or act as though they were in a capacity?  That would be obvious.

I have heard that the reason people portrayed as military on TV and in movies who wear their rank and whatnot incorrectly is for just this reason, that they won't get confused with RL military.

No....the law has an specific expection for movies, theater and TV.  They wear it wrong because they don't bother to get it right.....it looks good enough for the costume people and the director....it is good enough.

It depends on the military advisor for the movie. Dale Dye is really good but others is related to somebody. Not everybody in the military knows the proper wear of ribbons and such. JMHO

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

When the late Trevor Goddard (it was so tragic how his life ended) was playing Commander "Mic" Brumby, RAN, on JAG, there were a couple of things wrong with his uniform.

The first season he was on, his uniform didn't have AUSTRALIA nationality shoulder flashes (since WWII all Commonwealth armed forces have worn nationality marks to distinguish them from the UK), which just made him look like a Royal Navy officer.  That was soon corrected.

However, the ribbon rack they gave him (and Commonwealth armed forces are stingy about handing out chest candy) made him look like a decorated combat veteran...about the only thing he was lacking was a Victoria Cross.  I think they also gave him submarine "wings"...come on, I know Harm Rabb was a jet jock turned lawyer, but how often would that happen, to say nothing of a submarine officer turning lawyer?  I know, it's TV, suspend your disbelief, etc.

I also don't think Lt. Harriet Turner ever got any fruit salad beyond the NDSM and a plain red ribbon I cannot identify...a commissioned naval officer with less than someone who hasn't been out of Great Lakes very long?

Anyway, Catherine Bell always looked good.

[Critical AOA]

Anyway, Catherine Bell always looked good.

And that alone was reason enough to watch the show regardless of any technical errors.

[Eclipse]

To the OP.

There is no relief anywhere in the regs for the requirements to wear a uniform (when required).

When required, the uniform must be complete and properly configured or the argument could be made that the wearer is not, in fact, "in proper uniform".

Encouraging a member, especially a cadet, to wear a partial uniform not only violates the very clear and simple regs in this regard, but sends a day-1
message that proper uniform wear is "not a big deal".  This flies directly in the face of a cornerstone of the cadet program, which is attention to
detail in regards to appearance.

There are any number of better and creative ways for a cadet to be accommodated while still sending the proper message - not the least of which is
being personally resourceful in this regard, but allowing cadets to wear improper uniforms is a bad idea.

[jimmydeanno]

I have always permitted new cadets to wear their uniforms with the items that we issues, while waiting on VG orders.  They just don't get promoted until their uniform is complete.  In the meantime, they can wear the rest properly.  Of course others here disagree.

[PilotMan]

I have always permitted new cadets to wear their uniforms with the items that we issues, while waiting on VG orders.  They just don't get promoted until their uniform is complete.  In the meantime, they can wear the rest properly.  Of course others here disagree.

Yes.....Greatly Disagree.  If you had a set of loaner BDU's with proper badges and a nameplate that said "Newbie" it would be way more acceptable. 

Anyway... Most of the time there are delays in new cadets getting the stuff together......Its the cadets own laziness that have caused the delays.  I can have a set of correct BDU's together in one week.  Is not very hard to accomplish. 

[jimmydeanno]

We issue everything, and have to wait on the nametag/nametape, which we order.  In 15 years, nobody has ever condemned the practice, and after running several highly successful cadet programs it seems the method works pretty well.  To me, it's more important to get a new cadet into uniform as quickly as possible.  A missing nametag a week after joining isn't a big deal.  If it's not on there by the time you want to be promoted, then that's a different story.

There's a difference between the reality of the world and being the person who is determined to be more reg orthodox than anyone else.  The cadet program is a learning process and it takes time.  Getting the uniform together is one of the steps for promotion, so we'll start there.  In the meantime, they can learn how to wear it and reach that goal when they get there. 

There are units who have cadets held at C/AB for years because they get so hung up on the uniform issue that they loose sight of real goals of the program.  "The creases aren't sharp enough", "The insignia were 1/32" off", "It had a wrinkle on the back from driving in the car", etc., etc..  To me, that crap is ridiculous and contrary to the goals that we're trying to accomplish in the program. 

[SamFranklin]

I agree with jDeano's point that pursuing the big picture is more important than perfect fidelity to a CAP regulation. YMMV. 

But here's a thought experiment. Suppose a new 39-1 came out that basically codified the "Get the new cadet into uniform as quickly as possible... a missing nametag ins't a big deal in the two weeks or so...."   And for good measure, suppose CAP-USAF signed off on that rule.

Were that to happen, who here would still object to the overall philosophy Jdeano expressed in the preceding post?

[Eclipse]

I have always permitted new cadets to wear their uniforms with the items that we issues, while waiting on VG orders.  They just don't get promoted until their uniform is complete.  In the meantime, they can wear the rest properly.  Of course others here disagree.

That's perfectly reasonable - or some units have nametapes and tags that say "cadet", use one from a cadet that has left, etc.  I've Photoshopped
a fair number of nametapes and tags over the years as well - look fine from 10 feet.

But the units that let cadets walk around in BDU pants and gym shoes, or variations on that - no, that's the wrong message.  Better to have
them show up in a white dress shirt and black pants.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And that alone was reason enough to watch the show regardless of any technical errors.

Word.

[Private Investigator]

I have always permitted new cadets to wear their uniforms with the items that we issues, while waiting on VG orders.  They just don't get promoted until their uniform is complete.  In the meantime, they can wear the rest properly.  Of course others here disagree.

That's perfectly reasonable - or some units have nametapes and tags that say "cadet", use one from a cadet that has left, etc.  I've Photoshopped
a fair number of nametapes and tags over the years as well - look fine from 10 feet.

But the units that let cadets walk around in BDU pants and gym shoes, or variations on that - no, that's the wrong message.  Better to have
them show up in a white dress shirt and black pants.

+1 I visited a Cadet Squadron once that had so many people in various phases of BDU wear. Since both Cadets and Senior Members had nothing on the BDUs I did not know who was who.   

[PilotMan]

I agree with jDeano's point that pursuing the big picture is more important than perfect fidelity to a CAP regulation. YMMV. 

But here's a thought experiment. Suppose a new 39-1 came out that basically codified the "Get the new cadet into uniform as quickly as possible... a missing nametag ins't a big deal in the two weeks or so...."   And for good measure, suppose CAP-USAF signed off on that rule.

Were that to happen, who here would still object to the overall philosophy Jdeano expressed in the preceding post?

If this was the rule................Fine.............Im dealing with a DCC that is clearly and knowingly breaking the rules (on more than one issue)

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If this was the rule................Fine.............Im dealing with a DCC that is clearly and knowingly breaking the rules (on more than one issue)

If that is the case, said DCC should not be a DCC.

S/he, among other things, is setting a very bad example.

One of the first things you learn at Squadron Leadership School is to lead by example.

If someone in a position of authority is basically saying "to heck with the regs," that is not setting a good example.

[lordmonar]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

[PilotMan]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

I might tend to agree.......................BUT!  Notice the big but.......39-1 is very clear:

"COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

Any less on a uniform would be in violation.   

I think when it comes to cadets, following the rules to the "T" makes them appreciate their uniforms even more when they finally wear them properly for the first time.  Just the words, "You look sharp" from the DCC means the world to them!! 

In my experience, most of the delays in name tapes and other accouterments are the laziness of the cadet.  After a period of time they want to be like the other cadets.  This in my experience is the driving force that gets them to want to advance and move forward hence the saying "can lead a horse to water".

[Garibaldi]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

I might tend to agree.......................BUT!  Notice the big but.......39-1 is very clear:

"COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

Any less on a uniform would be in violation.   

I think when it comes to cadets, following the rules to the "T" makes them appreciate their uniforms even more when they finally wear them properly for the first time.  Just the words, "You look sharp" from the DCC means the world to them!! 

In my experience, most of the delays in name tapes and other accouterments are the laziness of the cadet.  After a period of time they want to be like the other cadets.  This in my experience is the driving force that gets them to want to advance and move forward hence the saying "can lead a horse to water".

In which case your CC needs to have a discussion with your DCC and an edict needs to be made that cadets who do not have a full uniform will not be allowed to wear one, not to meetings, not to activities, not nowhere not nohow. Period. Full stop. Italicized. Bold and underlined. It will give the cadet something to shoot for in their upbringing.

[PilotMan]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

I might tend to agree.......................BUT!  Notice the big but.......39-1 is very clear:

"COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

Any less on a uniform would be in violation.   

I think when it comes to cadets, following the rules to the "T" makes them appreciate their uniforms even more when they finally wear them properly for the first time.  Just the words, "You look sharp" from the DCC means the world to them!! 

In my experience, most of the delays in name tapes and other accouterments are the laziness of the cadet.  After a period of time they want to be like the other cadets.  This in my experience is the driving force that gets them to want to advance and move forward hence the saying "can lead a horse to water".

In which case your CC needs to have a discussion with your DCC and an edict needs to be made that cadets who do not have a full uniform will not be allowed to wear one, not to meetings, not to activities, not nowhere not nohow. Period. Full stop. Italicized. Bold and underlined. It will give the cadet something to shoot for in their upbringing.

They have an interim uniform to wear:  Bluejeans, Black T, Tennis-shoes.  This is another reason they want to advance and be like the veteran cadets and be part of the group.  We always make sure that they all interact to feel like part of the group to reinforce the bonds.  We don't want them to feel like newbies or outsiders.

[lordmonar]

BITD.....It was a Wednesday.......when I went to basic training....they issued us our OD greens and ordered our name tapes...for the first week of training we had nothing on our uniforms....we were called pickles.  On training day 7 we took all our OD's to the tailors and they sewed on our name and USAF tapes....we were then called canned pickles.

So.....even the USAF knows that there are rules and then there are RULES.

So.......I see nothing really wrong with cadets wearing their uniform as soon as they get them.  We don't do that here....but I don't get bent out of shape if other do it.

Now.....if after three months the cadet still does not have name tapes or the correct shoes.....now you are just being lazy and abusing the discretion that I think every leader should have IRT the regs.

I might tend to agree.......................BUT!  Notice the big but.......39-1 is very clear:

"COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

Any less on a uniform would be in violation.   

I think when it comes to cadets, following the rules to the "T" makes them appreciate their uniforms even more when they finally wear them properly for the first time.  Just the words, "You look sharp" from the DCC means the world to them!! 

In my experience, most of the delays in name tapes and other accouterments are the laziness of the cadet.  After a period of time they want to be like the other cadets.  This in my experience is the driving force that gets them to want to advance and move forward hence the saying "can lead a horse to water".

The USAF regs and AFI say the same thing.
And I agree that making them wait....and wear the alternate unifrom.....does make following the rules more important.  I however do understand why some units don't do it that way....and frankly....for the most part it really is just a non issue.

As for the DCC who does not follow the regs......fire him......it is that simple.  That goes for everyone.....CAP (and the USAF) would be a lot better if we just stood up to what is right and stepped in and correct the problem.

Wing/Group need to be more in to their subordinate units cookies more often....and see how they do buisness and make corrections as needed.