Ribbons on AF-Shirt or Av Shirt

[Nick Critelli]

I realize that the regs authorize one to wear award ribbons on AF blue shirt or the white Av shirt...but what is the real custom? Does wear them or not?  Somewhere I heard that custom has it that enlisted wear ribbons officers do not.  Anyone else heard this?

[MIKE]

That is what I've heard and what I follow.

[Major Carrales]

I realize that the regs authorize one to wear award ribbons on AF blue shirt or the white Av shirt...but what is the real custom? Does wear them or not?  Somewhere I heard that custom has it that enlisted wear ribbons officers do not.  Anyone else heard this?

When I work with CADETs or as a PAO, I wear the ribbons on the shirt.  It is an AF Custom for Officers not to wear them, only badges.

[Stonewall]

That is what I've heard and what I follow.

+1 for this standard.

Living up in DC, working in the Pentagon for a while, seeing AF officer types on the metro every day, living with an AF Lt Col for a while, and being in CAP up there, yeah, I can pretty much say with confidence that 95% of all Air Force officers did not wear ribbons on their blues shirts.  The ones who did were probably prior enlisted, but that's just my theory.

I follow the same rule.

[jb512]

The AF custom is for officers not to wear ribbons on the shirt normally.  I will wear mine if I am wearing a tie, or if I am working with cadets during a meeting....  just my preference.

[Stonewall]

I know, this should be for another discussion, but in CAP, you'll find a lot of the same senior members that wear ribbons on their blues shirts are the same ones that wear the service (saucer, buss driver) hat.

[Chappie]

As a Chaplain, I follow the AF Officers' custom of not wearing the ribbons on the shirt, only on the service jacket.  Even at a local squadron meeting with cadets, the shirt is sans ribbons.   I will wear my specialty badges on the shirt.

It is interesting to note as well that the standard for National Staff College is no ribbons on the shirts --- service jackets are not to worn either.   Of course at the banquet, the mini-medals are worn on the mess dress.

[Hawk200]

I know, this should be for another discussion, but in CAP, you'll find a lot of the same senior members that wear ribbons on their blues shirts are the same ones that wear the service (saucer, buss driver) hat.

I wear ribbons, but can't stand the bus driver hat. I usually wear only long sleeves, so I've got a tie on too.

[jimmydeanno]

+1 for the tradition of officer not wearing ribbons on their shirts.

However, I do wear them when doing recruiting events as it is customary for recruiters to wear them...

[Major Carrales]

I know, this should be for another discussion, but in CAP, you'll find a lot of the same senior members that wear ribbons on their blues shirts are the same ones that wear the service (saucer, buss driver) hat.

Yes, you are correct.

[Chappie]

I know, this should be for another discussion, but in CAP, you'll find a lot of the same senior members that wear ribbons on their blues shirts are the same ones that wear the service (saucer, buss driver) hat.

Yes, you are correct.

The only time one will see me wearing the service (saucer, bus driver, wheel) hat is at a Memorial Service for a member or some special event where formality is the rule of the day (Memorial Day or Veterans' Day Observance, 9-11 Observance, being part of review team, etc.).   I have observed that  AF Officers reserve the wear of their service hat for special occasions.

[mikeylikey]

I love the service cap.  I won't wear it though because if I do I am usually the only one who does. 

SO 1940's!!

[JohnKachenmeister]

I usually wear only my badges, wings and GBD, on the shirt.

Sometimes, in a formal meeting with the USAF, public recruiting presentations, etc., I wear the ribbons.

When I meet with AF officers on AF/CAP issues, I wear the ribbons. The fact that I have active duty and combat decorations adds, I think, some credibility.

[MIKE]

Me personally, I think the shirts should be as unblinged as possible.  Just nametag and GT badge is good enough for me.  You don't have to look like a dork... Really.

My other uniform requires ribbons... All, any nine, or top three... of which I rate none, so yeah. 

[Major Carrales]

DNall was about to post something...bu he dropped off!!!

WELCOME BACK!!! 

[ZigZag911]

I respectfully beg to disagree.

Ribbons are apposite on more formal occasions -- ceremonies,
change of command, inspections, recruiting.

On a regular meeting night, or working mission base, of course not appropriate.

[jb512]

Me personally, I think the shirts should be as unblinged as possible.  Just nametag and GT badge is good enough for me.  You don't have to look like a dork... Really.

My other uniform requires ribbons... All, any nine, or top three... of which I rate none, so yeah. 

Like a dork, huh...

I think that kinda sums up a lot.

[Major Carrales]

I respectfully beg to disagree.

Ribbons are apposite on more formal occasions -- ceremonies,
change of command, inspections, recruiting.

On a regular meeting night, or working mission base, of course not appropriate.

So, wearing earned awards makes one look like a dork...huh?  I think that is the most thoughtless thing I have ever read.

[Stonewall]

So, wearing awards makes one look like a dork...huh?  I think that is the most thoughtless thing I have ever read.

I wouldn't say they make you look like a dork (not talking about you, don't even know you), but often times, I think anyway, folks who wear ribbons on a "work uniform", which is what I consider to be the short-sleeve blues, do so because they may feel a need for recognition.  Sure, ribbons look nice, I agree with that.  And they can be appealing to non-military folks; hence why recruiters wear them.  But in Air Force culture, and I don't know why it's like this, enlisted folks wear their ribbons and officers don't.

I'll admit, if I saw an AF Officer or CAP Senior wearing ribbons on their short-sleeve blues, it would make me ask myself, what's up with that dude.

Could be that he's a former Marine Officer.  Marine officers often wear their ribbons on their version of "Class B's", as do Navy Officers and Coast Guard Officers.  Never in the Army, and not so often in the Air Force.

In my opinion, ribbons are for service dress.  You're entitled to your opinion and if your opinion is that wearing ribbons on our version of the "class B" uniform looks cool, that's fine.

[Major Carrales]

I think "dork" is a term that was poorly chosen.  Y'all are aware that Cadet have to wear them, don't y'all? Using terms like "dork" when describing CAP Officers or Cadets is infantile.

[Stonewall]

Y'all are aware that Cadet have to wear them, don't y'all?

Cadets have to wear ribbons?

[Major Carrales]

Y'all are aware that Cadet have to wear them, don't y'all?

Cadets have to wear ribbons?

Whoa...is says wear all or none.  Well, you learn something every day.  I stand corrected.

[Stonewall]

Emphasis mine

CAPM 39-1, Chapter 5:

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt.  No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform.

[Major Carrales]

Emphasis mine

CAPM 39-1, Chapter 5:

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt.  No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer uniform.

Point of order, that is the wrong place to look for cadet wear.  The Tables Figure 2-6. Men's Short-sleeve Shirt (Cadets)

4. Ribbons: Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and right edges with 3 in a row. Wear all or none.

Listen here, MAC, if I have to be WRONG...I HAVE TO Be TOTALLY WRONG (humor) 

[Stonewall]

Well yeah, everyone knows that.  If you choose to wear ribbons, you must wear all that you have earned.

I could see someone taking that the wrong way and saying but the manual says I have to either wear all the ribbons they make, or none at all.  I thought it looked better with all 40 ribbons...

[Major Carrales]

Well yeah, everyone knows that.  If you choose to wear ribbons, you must wear all that you have earned.

I could see someone taking that the wrong way and saying but the manual says I have to either wear all the ribbons they make, or none at all.  I thought it looked better with all 40 ribbons...

I just don't remember it reading quite that way.  Maybe it was a unit or Wing policy that I am remembering.

[ddelaney103]

Remember while it is AF custom, not every AF officer adheres to the "no ribbons on shirts" suggestion and they are well within their rights to do so.

For me, it depends.  With the AF shirt I just wear my wings and AF specialty badge.  With the white aviator shirt I adopted the Navy concept of wearing 3 ribbons.  Usually they're my top discretionary award, top senior award and top cadet award.

The reason for this is the white shirt is the only place for the Fat and Fuzzy to wear CAP awards.  They should have the chance to showcase their achievement, so I try to make myself an example by wearing mine.

[adamblank]

The whole ribbon concept is definitely personal discretion.  I would suggest getting the ultra thin ribbons for your shirt so it doesn't become a piece of swiss cheese from all of the bling.  I can personally tell you that as an AF officer if you wear your ribbons on your blues, you will be "mentored" likewise with the 'stache.  Thankfully CAP is more friendly :-)

Adam

[RiverAux]

Since the blue shirt is worn so rarely by seniors in my area, they tend to get formal about it when they do and most wear some ribbons. 

[dougsnow]

it's been a long time since I was in and read AFR 35-10, but dont AF ossifers also wear their mini-wings when in short-sleeved shirts?

[Stonewall]

it's been a long time since I was in and read AFR 35-10, but don't AF ossifers also wear their mini-wings when in short-sleeved shirts?

Just did a cursory search and couldn't find anything about that.  I remember seeing most AF Officers wearing minis though, just not sure what the rule is. 

Here's the current AFI for USAF Uniforms: http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af/36/afi36-2903/afi36-2903.pdf

[dougsnow]

Thankfully I got out before they re-invented the wheel and renamed 35-10 to whatever the flavor of the day is.

I have the current 36-whatever on my 'puter here, somewhere...

[adamblank]

Again, I think it is something not in print just done.  AF wings would be huge on a blues shirt.  When we transitioned to the spings initially some wore the large set but they quickly were mentored into wearing the mini set.  It is kind of a blend of common sense and understanding I guess.   I also checked the AFI and I saw nothing on it.  It is the type of issue where there would be MAJCOM instructions on it.  For most of us, it is all about going with the flow and not sticking out.  In these instances:  "The tallest blade of grass is the first one to be cut."

Adam

[O-Rex]

Wear of ribbons depends on the occasion, who's going to be there and one's own mood.

I think in some circles we've created sub-categories of uniforms: short-sleeve and dress short-sleeve.

[SAR-EMT1]

CAP-
I wear the Nametag, GT, EMT, and Personnel Badge on the Blue Shirt.
I wear the above along with ribbons on the Service Coat.

In the CG Aux, I only have one ribbon so its not a problem 

[MIKE]

I wear the Nametag, GT, EMT, and Personnel Badge on the Blue Shirt.
I wear the above along with ribbons on the Service Coat.

The way 39-1 is worded, you can not wear two specialty insignia... It has to be specialty insignia and aviation badge... Or authorized military badges worn in the prescribed manner.

[JC004]

I wear the Nametag, GT, EMT, and Personnel Badge on the Blue Shirt.
I wear the above along with ribbons on the Service Coat.

The way 39-1 is worded, you can not wear two specialty insignia... It has to be specialty insignia and aviation badge... Or authorized military badges worn in the prescribed manner.

McPeak!

[jb512]

And... any thoughts on why we're only allowed two badges on the white shirt as opposed to four on the blue?

[Ford73Diesel]

As a Cadet Officer, I don't wear ribbons on my short sleeve service uniform for a few reasons:

1. I don't like transferring them from my service coat.
2. I don't like leaving "bullet" holes in my shirt.
3. Even though I don't have too many ribbons for a cadet, it still looks kind of gaudy to wear all of them on the shirt.

[Duke Dillio]

I will usually wear my ribbons on my white aviator shirt but not on the AF blue shirt.  I think the biggest reason is that my AF shirt isn't quite a durable as the aviator shirt.  The AF shirt feels really thin and flimsy when compared to my aviator shirt.  The other reason is that I have one set of ribbons so if I am wearing the AF blue shirt, I have the ribbons on my service jacket.  You obviously don't wear ribbons on the blazer so I wear them on the aviator shirt.  That all having been said, I tend to avoid wearing either of these uniforms and fall into the "lazy senior" category with the polo shirt.  The reason for that is also simple:  I usually go straight from work to CAP and don't have the ability to store my freshly pressed/dry cleaned shirts/pants.

[PHall]

it's been a long time since I was in and read AFR 35-10, but dont AF ossifers also wear their mini-wings when in short-sleeved shirts?

In both the Air Force and CAP you can wear either the full size or the miniature wings on the blue shirts.
99% of the folks who wear wings wear the miniatures because the full size wings are just too big for the shirt.
(They look much better on the Service Dress Coat.)

Of course if you're going for the "look at me" look, then maybe the full size wings are just what you want.