Different shade of ABU?

[SAREXinNY]

I was on the AAFES to get prices on the ABUs and I noticed they have two totally different shades:

https://www.shopmyexchange.com//dlats-rabu-trousers/5282878/1826

and

https://www.shopmyexchange.com//dlats-rabu-trouser/5282740/1826

They are both "ABU" but they look totally different.  Can anyone bring me up to speed?

[Гугл переводчик]

This is from an Air Force website, released around the time the AF switched over.

"Some ABUs issued or purchased through AAFES, have shade variances, but they are all within the shade tolerance specifications set by the Air Force. This has begun to work itself out as the vendors formalized the process and produced more uniforms. The different shades variances are authorized."

[abdsp51]

That notice was put out when the AF went to the ABU as there were maj variances in the material.  Now you really cant tell the difference.

[Jester]

It helps to get them in person and match coats to trousers in terms of shade. Then I mark both with a corresponding number in sharpie.

[abdsp51]

It helps to get them in person and match coats to trousers in terms of shade. Then I mark both with a corresponding number in sharpie.

That's what I do.  But the shade memo came about when the ABU was first rolled out and there were major shade variations across the board, and was there to keep the uniform nazi's at bay.  Hell a couple months ago I had to pull out one of my older sets of ABUs to wear and was frantic because I couldn't find a matching hat for it (which I did and then learned that day that I could have worn my RABU hat grrr).

Anyway, there will always be some degree or variance in camo uniforms especially the ABU.  Since the latest and greatest variance is on the shelves and has been for the last 3-4 years the variances have shrunk but are still there. 

[Jester]

Back when that uniform first came out, my unit was one of the first to get them issued before deployment. I got a heads up about the difference in shade from other guys and got a chance to lay all my stuff out to get my four sets matching tops and bottoms.

They still didn't fade evenly. I dug mine out when this new letter came out and salvaged maybe 2 sets out of 5. The rest are trashed after a few deployments and who knows how much field time.

Oddly the nametapes all faded markedly more which I don't get since they're the same fabric. Again it may have been an issue with the first generation, like the shade difference and the map pockets everybody cut out.  They were also super long, like maybe 10-12" of extra fabric in the trouser length.

I've noticed it's not as bad with the RABU.

[abdsp51]

Back when that uniform first came out, my unit was one of the first to get them issued before deployment. I got a heads up about the difference in shade from other guys and got a chance to lay all my stuff out to get my four sets matching tops and bottoms.

They still didn't fade evenly. I dug mine out when this new letter came out and salvaged maybe 2 sets out of 5. The rest are trashed after a few deployments and who knows how much field time.

Oddly the nametapes all faded markedly more which I don't get since they're the same fabric. Again it may have been an issue with the first generation, like the shade difference and the map pockets everybody cut out.  They were also super long, like maybe 10-12" of extra fabric in the trouser length.

I've noticed it's not as bad with the RABU.

It's not since the the contractor has had enough time to figure it out.  I have 8 sets of the first gen ABUs and like 5 of the RABU.  The first gen isn't all that bad cept when it came to matching them up initially and i guess I got lucky on the fading part. 

Either way I expect to see some maj variances when we start wearing them in Jun due to a vast majority of surplus ABUS are probably that first gen batch.

[LTC Don]

There are still significant differences between the DSCP and the aftermarket Propper branded ABUs.  Buyer beware, especially if doing the eBay thing.

[PHall]

There are some small differences between the "regular" ABU's and the Ripstop RABU's too.
Mostly due to the fabric thickness IMHO.

[SAREXinNY]

There are still significant differences between the DSCP and the aftermarket Propper branded ABUs.  Buyer beware, especially if doing the eBay thing.

Can you explain these differences? I would prefer to spend a little more for something that would last me a while, rather than something that will fade after a dozen washes.

[lordmonar]

There are still significant differences between the DSCP and the aftermarket Propper branded ABUs.  Buyer beware, especially if doing the eBay thing.

Can you explain these differences? I would prefer to spend a little more for something that would last me a while, rather than something that will fade after a dozen washes.

No difference....the DSCPs are Propper.

It is just that the USAF does not run the same QC as it did with the BDUs and ODs.   So from time to time there is a difference between fabric runs.   It is not so bad now....but it was in the early days of the ABU.

AAFES or direct from Propper....you should be good.   You do run the risk of getting the pants in one shade and the shirt in the other if you are buying online.

[LTC Don]

I have two sets of DSCP and two sets of Propper.  There are distinct color differences between the two.  Point being, buying separate pieces (trousers or blouses) of DSCP branded and Propper branded ABUs most likely will not match color-wise.

[majdomke]

Good luck buying from AAFES. I called and was told CAP is no longer allowed to order over the phone or online. Confirmed with a manager. Made no sense but arguing with them just went no where.


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[abdsp51]

Good luck buying from AAFES. I called and was told CAP is no longer allowed to order over the phone or online. Confirmed with a manager. Made no sense but arguing with them just went no where.


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CAP has never been authorized to buy from AAFES online.  And they stopped doing phone orders IIRC within the last year or two.  There are plenty of sources outside of AAFES for ABUs.

[majdomke]

I bought through AAFES online in July of last year. Even their website says we're allowed to. When you try to register now it says only people with full exchange privileges are allowed to order online, except ROTC, CAP and some other group. I can copy/paste here if you'd like.


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[supertigerCH]

feel free to post...

[LTC Don]

Visited our local base last weekend and made a stop at AAFES.  All they had in stock (and plenty of it) was the RABU, to the tune of about $80 a set for top and bottom.  Hats were just shy of $6, DSCP tan t-shirts were right at $9 pack of three, and the DSCP tan nylon rigger-type belts were just shy of $6 also.  They had the procured Raine brand of rigger-type belts at about $8.

In a completely unsolicited conversation with the quite cordial lady at the register, she stated they had all of their ABU (twill) boxed up and ready to deliver to CAP when asked (the gist being, "I wish CAP would come get this stuff out of my storeroom.")  So, MCSS staff are apparently on board, and are happy to get rid of the ABU twill stuff since the RABU is the apparent new preferred standard (and admittedly, it is a nice looking material, at least when new).

As always, since the sizing from the BDU to ABU is different (size range in BDU to size specific in the ABU), trying on prior to purchasing is crucial for good sizing selection.

[majdomke]

And of course us folks in hot environments don't want twill but will end up getting them. Be prepared for lots of heat related injuries due to overheated cadets in these "winter-weight" styled uniforms. I'd prefer a vochure system to either order from AAFES online or at the base so we can pick what works for us rather than getting hot uniforms that are just going to sit in supply because no one will want them. I'm only speaking from our squadrons experience. It was 104 degrees yesterday. We have tons of twill BDUs sitting in supply now that no one will take.

[majdomke]

CAP has never been authorized to buy from AAFES online.  And they stopped doing phone orders IIRC within the last year or two.  There are plenty of sources outside of AAFES for ABUs.

Simply not true for ordering online. I've done it numerous times in the past after they set me up in the system. I just ordered my ABUs online at Kel-Lac uniforms which sits right off base at Lackland. They even do some nice modifications with regard to pocket sew down or Velcro. I wish they carried CAP insignias and tapes because they would sew those on too.

[lordmonar]

And of course us folks in hot environments don't want twill but will end up getting them. Be prepared for lots of heat related injuries due to overheated cadets in these "winter-weight" styled uniforms. I'd prefer a vochure system to either order from AAFES online or at the base so we can pick what works for us rather than getting hot uniforms that are just going to sit in supply because no one will want them. I'm only speaking from our squadrons experience. It was 104 degrees yesterday. We have tons of twill BDUs sitting in supply now that no one will take.

If you don't want them....then don't ask your wing for the them. 

Here is an example of looking the gift horse in the mouth.

The USAF has a bunch of free uniforms.....that are perfectly serviceable....but no one wants to buy.   They offer them to us.....but no....that's not good enough.

Makes you wonder why they even bother some times.   

[Eclipse]

The USAF has a bunch of free uniforms.....that are perfectly serviceable....but no one wants to buy.   They offer them to us.....but no....that's not good enough.

Because that's how a 3rd-world country picks their uniform, not an auxiliary of the US Military?

The uniform should be scaled to the mission, not scaled to help a write-off.

[lordmonar]

[censored]ing about free.

That's the problem.

Geezes guys.   The USAF does us a solid.  We help them out...they help us out.  Win Win. 

The old ABUs a okay.   They will not kill anyone.  They look good.  They are still wearable by the USAF.

AND THEY ARE FREE!

You don't want to be too hot.  You don't want to wear the old ABUs.  You don't have to wear them......you can always fork out $80 and get a new set of the current issue ABUs.

But let's not moan about costs now.  Let's not say "I wished the USAF just gave me the uniforms I wanted to wear".

Let's say thank you.....and move one.

[Eclipse]

Let's say thank you.....and move one.

Sooo...

"no thank you, we're pursing a uniform that meets mission needs without being exclusionary of many of the adult members"...
...wasn't an option?

Just checking.

FYI - they aren't "free", we all paid for them, and a far better use would be to issue them to the USAF until they are worn out.

[THRAWN]

Great gravy if no one wants them I am sure I could find a use for them....

[SMWOG]

And some of you people are in command postions...Oh my!

[majdomke]

I think some people are missing the point. The twill version was never well received by the active folks because it was too hot, just one reason, so they finally wised up and issued something they won't overheat in, the RABU. Now they are left with millions of twill no one wants to buy and they won't issue. With the vochure system I proposed it would allow those of you in love with twill to get what you want and the rest of us can get the ripstop we want. If you need further evidence of how ill conceived the twill version was just read one of the many threads in the past when we had rumors of getting ABU back then. Many AD members posted how awful they were. Just look at the crazy prices on eBay for ABUs. Twill go for around $15-25/ea and the ripstop go for $30-60/ea.

[Jester]

It's not that big a deal. I spent years training in the Deep South with the first iteration of ABUs and body armor, weapons, ammo, helmets, etc. I wore them extensively in Haiti.  I never once saw a heat injury.  To say that people will suddenly start keeling over in droves because of a relatively small change in fabric is silly, to put it politely.

If someone becomes a heat casualty it will be because of something the member/cadet and leader should have been on top of from the beginning like hydration.

[kwe1009]

It's not that big a deal. I spent years training in the Deep South with the first iteration of ABUs and body armor, weapons, ammo, helmets, etc. I wore them extensively in Haiti.  I never once saw a heat injury.  To say that people will suddenly start keeling over in droves because of a relatively small change in fabric is silly, to put it politely.

If someone becomes a heat casualty it will be because of something the member/cadet and leader should have been on top of from the beginning like hydration.

Also, you can "carefully" remove the inner lining to make the shirt lighter and a little cooler.

[Jester]

I don't even know if the map pockets were even a thing after the first generation. We were told we could cut them out pretty much immediately.  If I remember correctly we had somebody at alterations do it when the name tapes/badges/rank were sewn on. I don't remember doing or paying for any of it. I do have a set of twill from a year or two later that don't have map pockets.

[kwe1009]

I don't even know if the map pockets were even a thing after the first generation. We were told we could cut them out pretty much immediately.  If I remember correctly we had somebody at alterations do it when the name tapes/badges/rank were sewn on. I don't remember doing or paying for any of it. I do have a set of twill from a year or two later that don't have map pockets.

The map pockets were never anything but stupid.  Just how may Air Force members needed a map pocket?  Between that and the crazy number of pen/pencil holders, I don't know what the designers were thinking, if anything.

[PHall]

I don't even know if the map pockets were even a thing after the first generation. We were told we could cut them out pretty much immediately.  If I remember correctly we had somebody at alterations do it when the name tapes/badges/rank were sewn on. I don't remember doing or paying for any of it. I do have a set of twill from a year or two later that don't have map pockets.

The map pockets were never anything but stupid.  Just how may Air Force members needed a map pocket?  Between that and the crazy number of pen/pencil holders, I don't know what the designers were thinking, if anything.

The pencil/pen holders on the arms and legs come in handy when you're wearing body armour.
Which is why they put them there...

[Jester]

I usually just put them on my gear in an admin pouch. The one on the arm annoyed me and would get caught up when I bent my elbow, and I never really cared for reaching to my ankle to get a pen.

The little sewn in pocket at the top button works fine otherwise.

[kwe1009]

I never really cared for reaching to my ankle to get a pen.

That is where the tactical pen goes!

[PHall]

When the Air Force came up with the ABU, they copied the Army ACU pretty closely.
Which is why you have stuff like the knee and elbow reinforcements and the pen pockets on the sleeves and legs.
Stuff that the vast majority of Airmen will never need. But they're on there anyway...

[Jester]

Yeah, and anything that they actually wanted, like sleeve pockets, were vetoed. Because stripes so big they gave their own gravitational force pull equal AF heritage, and if Mr. Magoo cant tell you're a SNCO from across the parking lot, then what's the point?

At least the original blue tiger stripe didn't have lower blouse pockets and the option to tuck in, which had a practical purpose with a gunbelt.

[Eclipse]

...sleeve pockets, were vetoed. Because stripes so big they gave their own gravitational force pull equal AF heritage, and if Mr. Magoo cant tell you're a SNCO from across the parking lot, then what's the point?

An interesting observation -

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[Toad1168]

[censored]ing about free.

That's the problem.

Geezes guys.   The USAF does us a solid.  We help them out...they help us out.  Win Win. 

The old ABUs a okay.   They will not kill anyone.  They look good.  They are still wearable by the USAF.

AND THEY ARE FREE!

You don't want to be too hot.  You don't want to wear the old ABUs.  You don't have to wear them......you can always fork out $80 and get a new set of the current issue ABUs.

But let's not moan about costs now.  Let's not say "I wished the USAF just gave me the uniforms I wanted to wear".

Let's say thank you.....and move one.

Amen!  Throughout my tenure in CAP, The squadrons I have been with have always had supplies of uniforms on hand.  Me being a bit anal retentive, bought my own to ensure proper fit and new condition.  But that was a personal choice.  If they don't want the free ones, they can buy their own.  If not, take what is issued and stop complaining.

[grunt82abn]

Let's say thank you.....and move one.

Sooo...

"no thank you, we're pursing a uniform that meets mission needs without being exclusionary of many of the adult members"...
...wasn't an option?

Just checking.

FYI - they aren't "free", we all paid for them, and a far better use would be to issue them to the USAF until they are worn out.

What is this so called uniform your pursuing for us adult members that meets mission needs and isn't exclusionary? I have only heard of ABU's or the Corporate Blue BDU, didn't know there was another uniform option being considered.   

[Eclipse]

What is this so called uniform your pursuing for us adult members that meets mission needs and isn't exclusionary? I have only heard of ABU's or the Corporate Blue BDU, didn't know there was another uniform option being considered.

There isn't, which is the point.

[grunt82abn]

What is this so called uniform your pursuing for us adult members that meets mission needs and isn't exclusionary? I have only heard of ABU's or the Corporate Blue BDU, didn't know there was another uniform option being considered.

There isn't, which is the point.

I'm missing the meaning of how the ABU doesn't meet mission needs and/or is exclusionary to adults members I guess.

[RogueLeader]

What is this so called uniform your pursuing for us adult members that meets mission needs and isn't exclusionary? I have only heard of ABU's or the Corporate Blue BDU, didn't know there was another uniform option being considered.

There isn't, which is the point.

I'm missing the meaning of how the ABU doesn't meet mission needs and/or is exclusionary to adults members I guess.

He considers it exclusionary as not ALL Adults may wear it, due to weight and/or grooming standards.

[grunt82abn]

What is this so called uniform your pursuing for us adult members that meets mission needs and isn't exclusionary? I have only heard of ABU's or the Corporate Blue BDU, didn't know there was another uniform option being considered.

There isn't, which is the point.

I'm missing the meaning of how the ABU doesn't meet mission needs and/or is exclusionary to adults members I guess.

He considers it exclusionary as not ALL Adults may wear it, due to weight and/or grooming standards.

I choose to wear corporate and don't feel excluded at all. IMHO, I think it's a nice option for adult members like me who do not want to wear a military uniform again. Allows me to wear something uniformish, without looking like a rag bag in street cloths. Thanks for clearing that up!!!

[Eclipse]

He considers it exclusionary as not ALL Adults may wear it, due to weight and/or grooming standards.

I don't "consider it" exclusionary, it is as a matter of fact and regulation.

It also fails the mission test in that camo for SAR work is a poor choice, and the "affinity" it seeks to
engender isn't available for (arguably) more then half the adult membership.

[RogueLeader]

He considers it exclusionary as not ALL Adults may wear it, due to weight and/or grooming standards.

I don't "consider it" exclusionary, it is as a matter of fact and regulation.

It also fails the mission test in that camo for SAR work is a poor choice, and the "affinity" it seeks to
engender isn't available for (arguably) more then half the adult membership.

I consider ABU's to be just fine.  Just google the ABU wear tests and how miserably they fail at concealment.  There's even anecdotal evidence here on CapTalk at how the BBDUs suck without an orange vest.

[Eclipse]

They are fine, and the world won't end, but in the philosophical argument regarding CAP's "next" uniform,
"because those guys have a pile no one else wants" isn't how it should be decided.

CAP has traditionally been a dumping ground for DRMO cast-offs and related equipment and technology.
I think my wing actually still has a repainted blue van from the 90's that's been past its duty cycle for about
10 years (might be gone finally).

Sometimes this has been a benefit, but often it just means we have a pile of stuff no one wants, that
doesn't work the way it was supposed to, or is obsolete when we get it, because that's why we got it.

In fact, in the Total F..orce announcements, it was indicated CAP would be the "beneficiary" of
military technology no longer in use.  The problem with that is that the internet and cheap electronics
means that we can't pretend better doesn't exist, or that we aren't competing with 12 year olds who
have an Amazon account and nicer toys.

[Storm Chaser]

We may not always like what Eclipse is saying or how he's saying it, but that doesn't mean he's wrong... not always, anyway. 

[lordmonar]

But that's not how it was decided.  It was decided because    We wanted them for various reasons.   The argument is why is anyone complaining about free stuff?   We would be wearing ABUs even if the USAF did not have a bunch in supply. 
It was Eclipse who was trying fight a dead argument.   


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[Storm Chaser]

I don't have an issue with free stuff as long as its serviceable. These ABUs happen to be brand new, which is a good deal for many of our cadets and senior members. But that doesn't mean that some of Eclipse' points are not valid.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I don't have an issue with free stuff as long as its serviceable. These ABUs happen to be brand new, which is a good deal for many of our cadets and senior members. But that doesn't mean that some of Eclipse' points are not valid.

Word on the street is that cadets will get priority, and few if any will be available to SMs.

[Storm Chaser]

I don't have an issue with free stuff as long as its serviceable. These ABUs happen to be brand new, which is a good deal for many of our cadets and senior members. But that doesn't mean that some of Eclipse' points are not valid.

Word on the street is that cadets will get priority, and few if any will be available to SMs.

That is correct. Priority will be given as follows:

• Cadets
• Adult members who actively work with cadets
• Emergency Services personnel
• All remaining

Base on the numbers, I'm sure many senior members, although not all, will be able to get a set of ABUs.

[Eclipse]

All adult personnel wanting a free uniform should be required to weigh-in before receiving it.

[Storm Chaser]

I saw the list. The largest size for men trousers was 46 and for women was 22.

[Garibaldi]

All adult personnel wanting a free uniform should be required to weigh-in before receiving it.

Fully, 100% agree. I've self-policed with a little guidance and challenge from Spam. Neither of us will wear any AF style until we've lost a little girth. Hurts like he** but I'm not going to dishonor the uniform any longer by wearing it improperly.

[Brit_in_CAP]

All adult personnel wanting a free uniform should be required to weigh-in before receiving it.

Fully, 100% agree. I've self-policed with a little guidance and challenge from Spam. Neither of us will wear any AF style until we've lost a little girth. Hurts like he** but I'm not going to dishonor the uniform any longer by wearing it improperly.

:clap: :clap:

Good for you.  I keep an eye on my weight with help from our workplace nurse to keep it honest, for the same reasons.

[Майор Хаткевич]

All adult personnel wanting a free uniform should be required to weigh-in before receiving it.

Fully, 100% agree. I've self-policed with a little guidance and challenge from Spam. Neither of us will wear any AF style until we've lost a little girth. Hurts like he** but I'm not going to dishonor the uniform any longer by wearing it improperly.

:clap: :clap:

Good for you.  I keep an eye on my weight with help from our workplace nurse to keep it honest, for the same reasons.

As of today I'm 25lbs away from compliance. It's a long road, but it's certainly better than when I was 60+ lbs away from it.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm a little less concerned with complying with actual weight and height requirements, than I am with members wearing their uniforms correctly to include wearing the right size. Some members may be out of standard by a few pounds, but present a professional military image while wearing the uniform. Others, unfortunately, wear uniforms a size or two too small or wear their uniforms incorrectly, which presents an unprofessional image and reflects poorly on the organization.

[Eclipse]

I'm a little less concerned with complying with actual weight and height requirements, than I am with members wearing their uniforms correctly to include wearing the right size. Some members may be out of standard by a few pounds, but present a professional military image while wearing the uniform. Others, unfortunately, wear uniforms a size or two too small or wear their uniforms incorrectly, which presents an unprofessional image and reflects poorly on the organization.

Yeah, you just can't win, and ultimately it defeats the very purpose CAP is trying for.

Members too heavy "size-up" and look fine, while others in weight cheap out and try to wear their cadet
uniform to their Lt Col pinning.  I'll take the former over the latter, too, but ultimately it's about a number not
the appearance.

Someday someone will explain the heartburn over an annual weigh-in for those who want to wear the USAF combos.
If appearance, not to mention integrity, are "important", then hold people to the standard or drop the standard.

CAP is too concerned about alienating members who willfully violate the regs, but has no issue alienating those
who follow the rules and watch others flagrantly violate them?

[Майор Хаткевич]

CAP is too concerned about alienating members who willfully violate the regs, but has no issue alienating those
who follow the rules and watch others flagrantly violate them?

Yes.

[Storm Chaser]

If appearance, not to mention integrity, are "important", then hold people to the standard or drop the standard.

I agree. The Air Force got rid of its weight and height standard years ago. Why is CAP still clinging to ours? I think the standard either needs to be dropped or modified to better reflect our reality as an organization. Otherwise, we should go to a non AF-style uniform that EVERYONE can wear.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If appearance, not to mention integrity, are "important", then hold people to the standard or drop the standard.

I agree. The Air Force got rid of its weight and height standard years ago. Why is CAP still clinging to ours? I think the standard either needs to be dropped or modified to better reflect our reality as an organization. Otherwise, we should go to a non AF-style uniform that EVERYONE can wear.

Wasn't the "generous" (at the time) standard pushed on us by the AF?

[Ned]

The Air Force got rid of its weight and height standard years ago. Why is CAP still clinging to ours?

Not really.  The AF no longer uses H/W charts (with the attendant weigh-ins, certified tapers, etc.), but reaches the same effect with their fairly vigorous PT test, which includes a waist measurement. 

Based on my conversations with multiple AF senior leaders, including the Vice Chief of Staff, they would actually be delighted if we used the same standards.  However, they realize that is unrealistic in a volunteer force that was historically formed out of folks that did not meet the requirements for military service.

Hence the current compromise.  We use what was then (but no longer) the current AF standard plus 10%.  And we have adopted other uniforms to accommodate members who cannot wear the USAF-style.  Unlike the AF's restrictive standards, this allows all of our  members to serve.  They AF kicks larger, unfit members out (after a process).  We are far more inclusive, and welcome the contributions of all our members, regardless of size or grooming choices.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm very familiar with the history of this standard, but the fact remains that even those who are considered overweight in the Air Force can and do wear the Air Force uniform. Furthermore, there are waivers for those who can't complete one or more parts of the physical fitness tests, although waivers are becoming less prevalent and many have been relieved from service for failing the fitness test multiple times. The bottom line is that, while the Air Force has a standard, it affects service not uniform wear. I realize that standard wouldn't work for CAP, hence we're stuck with the old standard.

[Storm Chaser]

If appearance, not to mention integrity, are "important", then hold people to the standard or drop the standard.

I agree. The Air Force got rid of its weight and height standard years ago. Why is CAP still clinging to ours? I think the standard either needs to be dropped or modified to better reflect our reality as an organization. Otherwise, we should go to a non AF-style uniform that EVERYONE can wear.

Wasn't the "generous" (at the time) standard pushed on us by the AF?

Very possible. But just like the ABUs CAP said we couldn't have even though we never asked (until now), it's also possible we haven't ask the Air Force to relax this standard to allow more members to wear the AF-style uniform.

If we're unable or unwilling to change the standard or go to a single uniform everyone can wear, then how about correcting the omissions on the current corporate uniform such as the lack of a standardized color and type/cut of trousers, the lack of a corporate service dress coat, and the lack of a hat other than the "infamous" CAP baseball cap.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If appearance, not to mention integrity, are "important", then hold people to the standard or drop the standard.

I agree. The Air Force got rid of its weight and height standard years ago. Why is CAP still clinging to ours? I think the standard either needs to be dropped or modified to better reflect our reality as an organization. Otherwise, we should go to a non AF-style uniform that EVERYONE can wear.

Wasn't the "generous" (at the time) standard pushed on us by the AF?

Very possible. But just like the ABUs CAP said we couldn't have even though we never asked (until now), it's also possible we haven't ask the Air Force to relax this standard to allow more members to wear the AF-style uniform.

If we're unable or unwilling to change the standard or go to a single uniform everyone can wear, then how about correcting the omissions on the current corporate uniform such as the lack of a standardized color and type/cut of trousers, the lack of a corporate service dress coat, and the lack of a hat other than the "infamous" CAP baseball cap.

I think the G/W changes are DOA, as the stated purpose is to be able to fling this thing together on a moments notice based on goodwill rack/closet availability. As to the standards, I agree to an extent. We've had members retire in Blues from the AF one day, and slip into G/Ws in CAP the next, simply because their size doesn't work our chart. Doesn't seem right. As has been posted, a lot of overweight members may look better in the uniform than those within the standards with the right size. But the rules are rules at this time, and I wish more people had the integrity to follow them.

[Storm Chaser]

If we make the corporate service dress coat and hat optional and keep the current uniform configurations available, then it wouldn't defeat that purpose, but expand and provide additional options for those who want them.