How Soon Will We see This New Style?

[Майор Хаткевич]

And as I've said 100 times before, institute a mandatory annual weigh-in for anyone who wants to wear the USAF combos and this problem will evaporate in a year.

But then we'll have complaints about buddies doing weigh-ins for buddies and fudging the paperwork. Then you'll end up with some new form and a requirement to be seen by your doctor for an official weight. Or only having one woman in your squadron and nobody to weigh her, or whatever.

It's a great idea, but those who intentionally and willfully ignore the rules will always find a way.

Public weigh in, clothes on...

[Holding Pattern]

Yep, I agree. The only caveat I omitted is that the cadets can meet the more restrictive standards of case 1, and still participate in case 2.

And if the USAF uniform is actually a draw, allow it for cadets as-is, with the totality of the leadership in corporate.

This is not unheard of in similar organizations, and ends the conversation quickly and easily.

And as I've said 100 times before, institute a mandatory annual weigh-in for anyone who wants to wear the USAF combos
and this problem will evaporate in a year.

Either A: those not in spec will be unable to pretend anymore.

B: Those charged with making the decisions will be held to the standard, and will push for a consolidated uniform.

Either way, big wing CAP, end of decades of problems.  Zero mission-centric cost.

Safe, Effective, efficient.

You think the uniform isn't a draw for SMs?

[Storm Chaser]

Yep, I agree. The only caveat I omitted is that the cadets can meet the more restrictive standards of case 1, and still participate in case 2.

And if the USAF uniform is actually a draw, allow it for cadets as-is, with the totality of the leadership in corporate.

This is not unheard of in similar organizations, and ends the conversation quickly and easily.

And as I've said 100 times before, institute a mandatory annual weigh-in for anyone who wants to wear the USAF combos
and this problem will evaporate in a year.

Either A: those not in spec will be unable to pretend anymore.

B: Those charged with making the decisions will be held to the standard, and will push for a consolidated uniform.

Either way, big wing CAP, end of decades of problems.  Zero mission-centric cost.

Safe, Effective, efficient.

You think the uniform isn't a draw for SMs?

It is for some. It shouldn't be for most. Or do you really think we would lose half of our senior members because of a uniform?

[RogueLeader]

Is it the uniform, or what the uniform represents that makes the difference?

[Holding Pattern]

Yep, I agree. The only caveat I omitted is that the cadets can meet the more restrictive standards of case 1, and still participate in case 2.

And if the USAF uniform is actually a draw, allow it for cadets as-is, with the totality of the leadership in corporate.

This is not unheard of in similar organizations, and ends the conversation quickly and easily.

And as I've said 100 times before, institute a mandatory annual weigh-in for anyone who wants to wear the USAF combos
and this problem will evaporate in a year.

Either A: those not in spec will be unable to pretend anymore.

B: Those charged with making the decisions will be held to the standard, and will push for a consolidated uniform.

Either way, big wing CAP, end of decades of problems.  Zero mission-centric cost.

Safe, Effective, efficient.

You think the uniform isn't a draw for SMs?

It is for some. It shouldn't be for most. Or do you really think we would lose half of our senior members because of a uniform?

As someone who doesn't wear the AF uniform, I would see a shift away from it as a further distancing of CAP from the AF. And if getting rid of uniforms for SMs was that high on the priority list instead of taking the time to solve any number of our outstanding problems in CAP as an org that have nothing to do with uniform debates that no one outside of captalk ever seriously entertain, I would personally view CAP as having their priorities so broken as to leave.

Not because of the uniform in and of itself, but of the intent to further distance CAP from the AF.

Thankfully, NHQ doesn't take its talking points from captalk, the uniform isn't going away, real issues are being solved, and because of that I'll keep volunteering time, money, and resources to the programs.

While I think that there are some parts of our strategic plan that could be better, there is nothing in it I objected to, and it is overall quite good.

[Storm Chaser]

Is it the uniform, or what the uniform represents that makes the difference?

Our uniform represents Civil Air Patrol and members should be proud of that and our heritage, which predates the U.S. Air Force. And while our AF-style uniform also represents our status as the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, a large number of our members can't wear that uniform. Are they any less part of the Air Force Auxiliary and Total Force?

[Storm Chaser]

Yep, I agree. The only caveat I omitted is that the cadets can meet the more restrictive standards of case 1, and still participate in case 2.

And if the USAF uniform is actually a draw, allow it for cadets as-is, with the totality of the leadership in corporate.

This is not unheard of in similar organizations, and ends the conversation quickly and easily.

And as I've said 100 times before, institute a mandatory annual weigh-in for anyone who wants to wear the USAF combos
and this problem will evaporate in a year.

Either A: those not in spec will be unable to pretend anymore.

B: Those charged with making the decisions will be held to the standard, and will push for a consolidated uniform.

Either way, big wing CAP, end of decades of problems.  Zero mission-centric cost.

Safe, Effective, efficient.

You think the uniform isn't a draw for SMs?

It is for some. It shouldn't be for most. Or do you really think we would lose half of our senior members because of a uniform?

As someone who doesn't wear the AF uniform, I would see a shift away from it as a further distancing of CAP from the AF. And if getting rid of uniforms for SMs was that high on the priority list instead of taking the time to solve any number of our outstanding problems in CAP as an org that have nothing to do with uniform debates that no one outside of captalk ever seriously entertain, I would personally view CAP as having their priorities so broken as to leave.

Not because of the uniform in and of itself, but of the intent to further distance CAP from the AF.

Thankfully, NHQ doesn't take its talking points from captalk, the uniform isn't going away, real issues are being solved, and because of that I'll keep volunteering time, money, and resources to the programs.

While I think that there are some parts of our strategic plan that could be better, there is nothing in it I objected to, and it is overall quite good.

I agree that the uniform should not be a priority in CAP. Yet, the fact that we continue to debate this subject leads me to believe that the sooner we resolve this uniform disparity the sooner we'll be able to move on and focus on what really matters, our mission.

[yuccakev]

Can anyone cite an example where the AF uniform has detracted from a mission?

[Storm Chaser]

Can anyone cite an example where the AF uniform has detracted from a mission?

Other than members who continue to wear the AF-style uniform even though they don't meet the weight and height standards, or members who wear insignias not authorized by CAPM 39-1 or AFI 36-2903, or wear their uniforms improperly giving CAP a bad name, or don't follow proper customs and courtesies giving our cadets a poor example to follow, I really can't think of one. But I do have plenty of examples of members who are active contributors, follow the rules, make a difference to the organization, yet are still excluded from wearing the AF-style uniform.

[Holding Pattern]

Yet, the fact that we continue to debate this subject leads me to believe that the sooner we resolve this uniform disparity the sooner we'll be able to move on and focus on what really matters, our mission.

We continue to debate this subject on captalk because there is nothing better for us to do on captalk.

Discuss the finer points of missions? FOUO.
After action reports? FOUO.
SUI? FOUO.
Build a knowledgebase from CAP resources! FOUO.
Discuss better recruiting strategies? Too much work, unless you are NIN.
Discuss cyberpatriot programs? All the IT people are still in hiding.
etc.

And then of course we have new people who come to CAPTALK with a question that gets usually a "Did you Read That Fine Manual/Regulation?" type of response.

So it is entirely unsurprising to me that captalk talks so much about uniforms.

It can't do anything else.

[Holding Pattern]

Can anyone cite an example where the AF uniform has detracted from a mission?

Other than members who continue to wear the AF-style uniform even though they don't meet the weight and height standards,

Last time I saw a photo the bigger issue was people complaining that they thought someone didn't meet the h/w standards when they did.

[Eclipse]

Last time I saw a photo the bigger issue was people complaining that they thought someone didn't meet the h/w standards when they did.

Actually, some thought they didn't, some thought they did.  Which is still an issue, since the USAF-style, especially service dress is
very unforgiving.  A lot of members seem to think that if they can find a jacket that fits, they are still OK.  A 52-Long on someone 5-8
doesn't fly, so to speak. If you're close, you're likely walking the line on the tables on a given day.

The shirts are tapered and the jacket is a drape cut, if it doesn't look right, you're likely over or really close.  Either way the impression is the same.

However no one needs to use marginal examples when so many blatant ones are regularly posted in the NHQ flicker pool and the
new release page(s).

[USACAP]

Citadel Considering Allowing Hijab w/Uniform
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/the-citadel-considers-first-ever-uniform-exception-allowing-a-muslim-hijab-1395734?site=full
The Citadel is considering a request from an admitted student that she  be allowed to wear a hijab in keeping with her Muslim faith, a move that  would be an unprecedented exception to the school's longstanding  uniform requirements.

If the request for the traditional Muslim hair covering is granted, it  apparently would be the first exception made to the Citadel's uniform,  which all cadets at the storied public military college in South  Carolina are required to wear at nearly all times.