What hath McPeak Wrought?

[RogueLeader]

Forget all this USAF and TPU uniform nonsense.  Let's return to our heritage and go to the "Pink and Greens" of the old army air corps.  This was the sharpest uniform ever.

Where's the tallest tree in the states? Cuase when I get there . . . . .

[NAYBOR]

DNall,

OK, yes, it'd cost money.  No doubt.  My point was a uniform that was civilian but military enough to be discernable as an alternative to the AF service dress.  The uniform I discribe would look more like a corporate uniform of a civilian pilot.  Yes, it might be hideous to some, but no doubt it would scream "CAP Officer" and be completely distinct and discernable as a "CAP only" uniform.

Well, if you ain't gonna keep the "U.S." on the TPU (I still don't buy/get all the 'Geneva convention'/'AF told us to' stuff--I don't see anything legally wrong with have the "U.S." cutouts on our corporate uniforms.  It's on our corporate flight patches [command patch], it's now on our nametapes [AF-style/Corporate BDU], it sounds like it's gonna be on our nametags and flight tags [both AF-styleand corporate]--so what the heck is wrong with "U.S." on the TPU service coat?), at least take the "CAP" cutout off altogether for officers--it's not needed (keep it for cadets).  Put the last name first on the name tag, with "US Civil Air Patrol" under it (I'd much rather see US Air Force Auxilliary, but who the heck am I?).  Take that darn silver brade off of the sleeves and service cap--I'm sorry, it's out of place, and not needed.  Keep the Service cap the same as AF-style CAP service cap, and use the same blue commisioning braid as on the AF service coat.  If not that, no braid at all then (I'd much rather see the blue braid, though).  It'd still cost money, but no where as much as my original suggestion.  These suggestions would also keep much continuity between the AF service coat and the TPU.  It'd also keep continuity for older/larger cadets waering the TPU (I DID leave cadets out with my original suggestions).

DNall, remember--one psychological ploy to bargaining or asking for something is to first ask for something so outrageaous that when you ask for what you REALLY want, you usually get it...

[DNall]

OK, yes, it'd cost money.  No doubt.  My point was a uniform that was civilian but military enough to be discernable as an alternative to the AF service dress.  The uniform I discribe would look more like a corporate uniform of a civilian pilot.  Yes, it might be hideous to some, but no doubt it would scream "CAP Officer" and be completely distinct and discernable as a "CAP only" uniform.

None of which we want to be true. It is an AF based organization first & foremost. No uniform combination for cadet or adult should scream anything but part of AF, and be just barely different enough to make clear that UCMJ authority doesn't exist. That's it & nothing more, and AF is the sole determiner of what that means.

Well, if you ain't gonna keep the "U.S." on the TPU (I still don't buy/get all the 'Geneva convention'/'AF told us to' stuff--I don't see anything legally wrong with have the "U.S." cutouts on our corporate uniforms.  It's on our corporate flight patches [command patch], it's now on our nametapes [AF-style/Corporate BDU], it sounds like it's gonna be on our nametags and flight tags [both AF-styleand corporate]--so what the heck is wrong with "U.S." on the TPU service coat?), at least take the "CAP" cutout off altogether for officers--it's not needed (keep it for cadets).  Put the last name first on the name tag, with "US Civil Air Patrol" under it (I'd much rather see US Air Force Auxilliary, but who the heck am I?).  Take that darn silver brade off of the sleeves and service cap--I'm sorry, it's out of place, and not needed.  Keep the Service cap the same as AF-style CAP service cap, and use the same blue commisioning braid as on the AF service coat.  If not that, no braid at all then (I'd much rather see the blue braid, though).  It'd still cost money, but no where as much as my original suggestion.  These suggestions would also keep much continuity between the AF service coat and the TPU.  It'd also keep continuity for older/larger cadets waering the TPU (I DID leave cadets out with my original suggestions).

I'm not so sure about the Geneva convention thing either. DoD interprets what international law defines as mandatory elements of an officer uniform versus other combatants & non-combatants. The US cutouts were authorized on the service coat when the whole AF wore them, but now enlisted are back to distinctive cutouts, so they may have a problem with it staying that way on our uniform, which I think would really be a shame, especially since no one has ever cared about commissioning braid.

Otherwise I'd agree with most of your change recommendations. The silver braid has to go!!!, the grade slides should get CAP embroidered on them. The blue nametag used with this uniform should be the standard for all other uniforms (no change to silver tags on the two service coats), permission should be sought & achieved for wear of mil badges/ribbons on these uniforms... basic stuff.

DNall, remember--one psychological ploy to bargaining or asking for something is to first ask for something so outrageaous that when you ask for what you REALLY want, you usually get it...

That's not what happened though. They couldn't get their way & AF said NEVER possible no matter what CAP is, so CAP just went & did their own thing in loop hole mode. They aren't negotiating with the partner, and that's the chief complaint most of us have.

[DNall]

I still have a Mcpeak bag that was never worn.  Maybe I will dig it out and post pictures.  Another change he made was to make the pockets on the lower leg smaller, so that you couldn't carry your flight cap in it. 

Mine's too small for me bnow, but it's a little different then that. The map pockets are actually much deeper so the flight cap drops all the way in w/o sticking out. Leg pockets are gone in favor of zip thru to shorts pockets. No epaulets on mine, and doesn't look like they were removed unless it was some real expert work. The perma-creases are slick (never painful), though they aren't reinforced on the knee so they don't exist long in that spot. The overall cut is much sleeker & form fitting. It really looks good, not at all bag-like. I really really liked that, and really wish it were bigger than it is.

[AlphaSigOU]

...Leg pockets are gone in favor of zip thru to shorts pockets...

Happy pockets!      

The current blue CAP utility uniform available from Vanguard  is modeled after the McPeak flight suit with knife pocket on the lower leg and happy pockets. No epaulets or permacreases.

[LtCol White]

DNall, remember--one psychological ploy to bargaining or asking for something is to first ask for something so outrageaous that when you ask for what you REALLY want, you usually get it...

NOT true at all. When you do this, you more often than not lose credibility.