FMF Badge on CAP uniforms

[FMFDOC]

Does anyone know if the FMF Warfare Pin is Authorized for wear on the CAP/AF Dress Blue Uniform. IM new getting back into CAP and can't find any guidance.


Dan Coleman
SM
HM1(FMF)/USN 98-10
OIF Disabled Veteran

[Pylon]

Doc! Welcome to the forums from a grunt who certainly appreciates our greenside Docs.


The military badges that can be worn on the CAP AF-Style dress blue uniform are controlled by the Air Force, not us.  There is a partial list of military badges that are authorized on page 116 of CAPM 39-1.  None the Navy badges (FMF Warfare, Surface warfare, submarine warfare...) are listed.  However, the last note on that page is to contact National Headquarters Membership Services for clarification on other badges to see if they are authorized.  So I'd say that's your answer: the regulation says (since it's not specifically authorized) contact NHQ for clarification.

[Stonewall]

Welcome, Doc.

If CAP ends up allowing the FMF Warfare Pin to be worn, you'll have to show proof that you're authorized the badge.

Personally, I think they should allow all official military badges be worn...not all at one time, of course :-)

[SARDOC]

I would hope that it would be...I think same genre as the Combat Infantyman's Badge of Combat Medic Badge.  However, I was told no to my Enlisted Aviation Warfare Specialist because it's not currently authorized on the USAF uniform.  I can however wear my Navy Aircrew because it's an Aeronautical badge.

It depends on if the ruling is it the Community Badge or not like the EAWS, Surface, etc...

Good Luck Doc.  Thanks for your service and Welcome back to CAP.

[stillamarine]

Heck I can't wear my gold wings. I have to wear a lead sled which sucks.

[Pylon]

Heck I can't wear my gold wings. I have to wear a lead sled which sucks.

Are you talking about the Navy/Marine Corps Parachutist Wings?  Those are an aeronautical badge and are covered by CAPM 39-1, Table 6-5, Item 1.  I have a squadron mate with dual cools and we checked with CAP/LMM, per Note 2 on Table 6-5 for any clarifications.  Their response was that the gold Navy/Marine Corps parachutist wings are, in fact, authorized for wear on the CAP AF-style uniform as an aeronautical badge.

[stillamarine]

Do you have a copy of that ruling? When I asked in 06 they told me no. If not I'll email them again so I can have it on paper. I know I can wear my scuba bubble but I choose not to and just wear my jump wings and observer wings.

[Texas Raiders]

Have any of our other Coasties already checked on devices such as Cutterman and Coxswain qualification badges?  I have both, but have yet to contact NHQ in regard to their wear. 

[PHall]

Do you have a copy of that ruling? When I asked in 06 they told me no. If not I'll email them again so I can have it on paper. I know I can wear my scuba bubble but I choose not to and just wear my jump wings and observer wings.

No ruling required. Like he said, they are an "Aviation Badge" and thus are authorized per the 39-1.
Check out the sections of the 39-1 that he quoted.

[SARDOC]

Do you have a copy of that ruling? When I asked in 06 they told me no. If not I'll email them again so I can have it on paper. I know I can wear my scuba bubble but I choose not to and just wear my jump wings and observer wings.

No ruling required. Like he said, they are an "Aviation Badge" and thus are authorized per the 39-1.
Check out the sections of the 39-1 that he quoted.

AFI 11-402 is the Air Force Instruction that covers "Aviation Badges" and "Parachutist badges"  While I think technically different by definition, I agree that since it appears to be approved for wear on the USAF uniform, I say go ahead and wear it.  You've earned it.

[Stonewall]

Have any of our other Coasties already checked on devices such as Cutterman and Coxswain qualification badges?  I have both, but have yet to contact NHQ in regard to their wear.

This may side track us a little, but I thought I'd add this.  There are companies like nametags4u.com that will make military badges with white on ultramarine (i.e. blue) for CAP uniforms.  In my squadron, we have a retired Army SF guy who had master blaster and SCUBA bubble made by Vanguard and they looks awesome! 

We had a former FMF Doc (Force Recon) who pinned on his "dual cool" badges on his CAP BDUs and I didn't think they  looked good, plus, is not CAP/USAF's practice to do so.  I asked if I could have them made for CAP uniform and he said "no, I'll wear them the right way".  Good dude whose career was cut short.  He got an NROTC scholarship but was hit by a drunk driver rendering him DQ'd from military service.  As a true Dual Cool Devil Doc, he is now wrapping up Med School.  OORAH!

Point being, I really appreciate it when our veterans wear their military badges in true CAP form, white on ultramarine.  YMMV.

Personally, I wear one military and one CAP badge.

[Flying Pig]

Do you have a copy of that ruling? When I asked in 06 they told me no. If not I'll email them again so I can have it on paper. I know I can wear my scuba bubble but I choose not to and just wear my jump wings and observer wings.

Ahhhh man!!! You gotta wear the SCUBA with the observer wings!  From the air on land and sea baby!!!! 

[stillamarine]

Do you have a copy of that ruling? When I asked in 06 they told me no. If not I'll email them again so I can have it on paper. I know I can wear my scuba bubble but I choose not to and just wear my jump wings and observer wings.

Ahhhh man!!! You gotta wear the SCUBA with the observer wings!  From the air on land and sea baby!!!!

Lol, Just for you I'll wear it on my blues at the Wing Conference next month, which'll be the next time I wear blues probably.

[Stonewall]

Lol, Just for you I'll wear it on my blues at the Wing Conference next month, which'll be the next time I wear blues probably.

Don't you still owe me a drink?  I'll see you there.

The retired SF Master Sergeant that wears his bubble will be there too, he wears it with his pilot wings.

Hold on, I thought you were in FLWG.  I just saw your signature and it says ALWG.

[stillamarine]

Nah I moved to AL when I got hired by Birmingham PD in 2008.  Next time I'll be down your way at all will be Orlando in July for vacation/conference. If you can make your way by there, I'll have a couple with you!

[GroundHawg]

Navy and Marine Corps Parachute Wings are not authorized on the USAF uniform, therefore they are not authorized on the CAP uniform. What you can do however, is wear standard parachute wings in whatever level you are authorized (basic, senior, or master)

Whenever you recieve your answer from national about your FMF Badge, can you please send a copy? I was told flat out that the EFMB cannot be worn, I am curious if they will allow the FMF.

[Stonewall]

FWIW - if you have military badges that ARE authorized for wear, you can have them made white on ultramarine...



Spur Name Tapes 1800nametapes.com.   They look identical to the standard military badges.  Just call them and tell them exactly what you want, "white on ultramarine blue Airborne and Air Assault".  Again, they perfectly done and only at $2 a set.


And then there's Nametags4u.com

[GroundHawg]

^ I ordered a bunch of different badges from them for me and a few prior service guys in my squadron. All were amazing!

[Stonewall]

^ I ordered a bunch of different badges from them for me and a few prior service guys in my squadron. All were amazing!

I just ordered CAP and LAST NAME tapes from them.  I ordered some from Vanguard and they started using the "fabric strip" instead of the webbed tapes.  Not sure why the change, but they look HORRIBLE.

Example:



And Vanguard's GTM badges are ridiculous looking now.  The wreath ("wings") look all spiky/pointy now.

[GroundHawg]

Thanks for the heads up, I refuse to wear the fabric or the ones with the "borders". I like webbed and that is all.

[Slim]

Bro,

I got some of the fabric tapes from Spur a couple years ago, and was very pleased with them.  Unlike the webbed tapes, these don't shrink up and pucker when you run them through the laundry, the quality of the embroidery was exactly what I always got from Spur, don't seem to be fading, and they're a pretty close match to the wings, badges and grade-exact, in my case.

^ I ordered a bunch of different badges from them for me and a few prior service guys in my squadron. All were amazing!

I just ordered CAP and LAST NAME tapes from them.  I ordered some from Vanguard and they started using the "fabric strip" instead of the webbed tapes.  Not sure why the change, but they look HORRIBLE.

Example:



And Vanguard's GTM badges are ridiculous looking now.  The wreath ("wings") look all spiky/pointy now.

[Eclipse]

The fabric issue must be a VG issue, because I've ordered a bunch from Spur as well, in ultramarine, black, orange, and dark blue, and
they are far superior to the webbed ones.  No pucker, the color stays nice and bright, and Spur always does a great job with the
embroidery.  I would not go back to the webbed.

I ordered on Gold on Olive for my son today, will post the quality when I get them.

[Devil Doc]

FMF Pin? What is that?

[Pylon]

I'm assuming he means the FMF Enlisted Warfare Specialist badge for hospital corpsmen, which you're displaying in your signature.  Maybe Docs have a different nickname for it?

[Texas Raiders]

FMF= Fleet Marine Force.  The Fleet Marine Force Enlisted Warfare Specialist Device (FMFEWS) is a qualification insignia of the United States Navy earned by enlisted U.S. Navy sailors assigned to the Fleet Marine Force of the U.S. Marine Corps who have successfully completed the necessary requirements of the Enlisted Fleet Marine Force Warfare Specialist (EFMFWS) Program per OPNAV Instruction 1414.4B. This involves serving one year with a Marine Corps Unit (two years for reserves), passing the Marine Physical Fitness Test (PFT), a written test, demonstrating skills used in service with the Marines such as weapon breakdown and familiarization, land navigation, combat communications and an oral examination by senior enlisted sailors who are FMF qualified. The Enlisted Fleet Marine Force Warfare Specialist designation is most commonly awarded to the Hospital Corpsman (HM) and Religious Programs Specialist (RP) ratings, although it is also awarded to other sailors who support Marine Corps Commands. 

It is indeed pictured in the HM3's signature.

[Devil Doc]

I know I was being Sarcastic, LOL. Gotta get my thread count up ya know.

[PHall]

I know I was being Sarcastic, LOL. Gotta get my thread count up ya know.

Dude, the emoicon with the devils horns is there for a reason.... 

Get with the program Popeye!       

[Stonewall]

FWIW - if you have military badges that ARE authorized for wear, you can have them made white on ultramarine...



Spur Name Tapes 1800nametapes.com.   They look identical to the standard military badges.  Just call them and tell them exactly what you want, "white on ultramarine blue Airborne and Air Assault".  Again, they perfectly done and only at $2 a set.


And then there's Nametags4u.com

I had ordered new name tapes and CAP tapes a week or so ago and got an email saying they can't even make CAP tapes anymore (I ordered some a year ago).   

After getting some rank from Vanguard, I ordered some Lt Col from Spur and they are 10x better than the ones from Vanguard.

I got new military badges (white on blue) and Lt Col rank.  HIGH QUALITY!

[PHall]

You can get CAP tapes from AAFES these days. I don't think they have to worry about a C&D letter.

[J2H]

I ordered my SF function badge from a company that was linked through here, still waiting on it to see how it looks

[68w20]

The topic reminded me of a question I had a while back.  Table 6-5 of M39-1 specifies that the Combat Infantry Badge (CIB) may be worn, but also refers to an "Army Medical Badge."  Anyone know off hand if they were referring to the Expert Field Medical Badge (EFMB) or Combat Medic Badge (CMB)?  Both?

[Duke Dillio]

It has always been my interpretation that you can wear both however it never hurts to check the KB or give National a call if you have a question.  I would also assume that there will be guidance in the future regarding the CAB.  I have not heard anything otherwise.

[Flying Pig]

I know I was being Sarcastic, LOL. Gotta get my thread count up ya know.

Dude, the emoicon with the devils horns is there for a reason.... 

Get with the program Popeye!       

GUYS!!  ..... Devil Doc has the FMF pin in his signature block picture with his ribbons..... Geeeeeezzzz.  Dont worry Devil..... I got ur back!  At least Pylon was on the ball!

[SarDragon]

Bob, he's a Buzz Butt. They don't grok Canoe Club stuff.

[Stonewall]

GUYS!!  ..... Devil Doc has the FMF pin in his signature block picture with his ribbons..... Geeeeeezzzz.  Dont worry Devil..... I got ur back!  At least Pylon was on the ball!

As the one who designed and hosts his signature block, I too was on the ball.  And I'm not a Devil Dawg!  I just know stuff.

[GroundHawg]

The topic reminded me of a question I had a while back.  Table 6-5 of M39-1 specifies that the Combat Infantry Badge (CIB) may be worn, but also refers to an "Army Medical Badge."  Anyone know off hand if they were referring to the Expert Field Medical Badge (EFMB) or Combat Medic Badge (CMB)?  Both?

The EFMB and CAB "should" be automatic as Air Force  personel can and do earn them. I would assume that since the CIB can be worn that the CMB can be worn as well. Since there is no ryme or reason behind the decisions Ive seen made by national or KB regarding prior and other service badges, maybe not.

[Stonewall]

The Air Force only allows you to wear the CIB, CMB, or CAB when you are assigned to an Army unit.  As an example, a TACP would be assigned to an Army unit and may be awarded a CAB, but upon returning to his unit, it would have to be removed.  That said, while assigned to the Army unit, he would either wear ACUs or Multi-Cams (not ABUs).  These devices are not authorized for wear on ABUs or AF Blues.

Miscellaneous Badges.
10.5.1. Miscellaneous Badges. A listing of miscellaneous badges authorized to be worn onthe BDU uniform as indicated.10.5.1.1.

Combat Infantry, Combat Medical and Combat Action Badge.
Wear onlywhile permanently assigned to and performing duties with sister services components.
Note: Combat Infantry, Combat Medical and Combat Action badges are not authorizedon ABU.10.5.1.1.1. Permanent assignment denotes non TDY status. This applies to otherbadges or patches i.e., Army Combat patches earned or awarded by sister servicecomponents.10.5.1.1.2. Upon Permanent Change of Station (PCS) to an Air Force unit, memberwill remove all sister service patches. OPR is Sister Service Directive; ArmyMilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS etc.10.5.1.2.

Pathfinder Badge and Ranger Tab.
Wear only while permanently assigned toand performing duties with sister services components.10.5.1.2.1. Permanent assignment denotes non TDY status. This applies to otherbadges or patches; i.e., Army Combat patches earned or awarded by sister servicecomponents.
Note: Patches are not authorized on ABU.10.5.1.2.2. Upon Permanent Change of Station (PCS) to an Air Force unit, memberwill remove all sister service patches. OPR is Sister Service Directives, ArmyMilPERCEN, Navy; BUPERS, etc.10.5.1.3.

US Army Air Assault Badge.
Authorized permanent wear of black US ArmyAir Assault badge on the BDUs only, regardless of duty assignment. Air Force membersare authorized to wear badge upon graduation from Air Assault school.10.5.1.3.1. US Army Air Assault badge is not authorized for wear on the ABU.10.5.1.3.2. Upon Permanent Change of Station (PCS) to an Air Force unit, wear of Army Air Assault badge is optional. OPR is Sister Service Directive; ArmyMilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS etc.

[PHall]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  The above pretty much says it all.  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Duke Dillio]

CAPM 39-1:
6-7. US Military Badges. CAP members may wear only the US military badges authorized for wear
on the US Air Force uniform when earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority for
service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies. The military
badges authorized for wear on the CAP uniform and BDU are listed in Table 6-5. Before wearing any
badge not listed in this table, contact National Headquarters/LMM for clarification. US Military badges
are not authorized for wear on any of the CAP distinctive uniforms.

Since no CAP member is permanently assigned to an Army unit on behalf of the Air Force, wouldn't that mean that you couldn't wear them?

[GroundHawg]

CAPM 39-1:
6-7. US Military Badges. CAP members may wear only the US military badges authorized for wear
on the US Air Force uniform when earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority for
service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies. The military
badges authorized for wear on the CAP uniform and BDU are listed in Table 6-5. Before wearing any
badge not listed in this table, contact National Headquarters/LMM for clarification. US Military badges
are not authorized for wear on any of the CAP distinctive uniforms.

Since no CAP member is permanently assigned to an Army unit on behalf of the Air Force, wouldn't that mean that you couldn't wear them?

Been saying this for years. I think this would be true, except they specifically list the CIB as authorized. And it still bothers me that when a member of the USAF wears the CAB, they have to wear it below their occupational badges. Just not right.

http://www.nationalguard.mil/news/archives/2010/08/080410-Airman.aspx

[Stonewall]

Here's the deal. If you are in the Air Force, you will get the Air Force Combat Action Medal if you are in direct combat with an enemy force.  Same thing in the Marine Corps/Navy, you get a Combat Action Ribbon. The Army, instead, is badge crazy and issues you a badge.

It pisses me off when AF people say "I earned my CAB".  No, you earned a combat action medal and the Army gave you a CAB as a gift.  Same thing for combat patches.  Neither te AF nor CAP have combat patches, ie they don't wear them, so don't get butt hurt over not being able to wear them. 

[Duke Dillio]

If it were me, knowing what TACP's do and where they are embedded, I would give them CIB's instead.  They are basically infantryman with different radios in my mind.  The CAB was designed b/c someone got butt hurt that they couldn't earn a CIB or CMB.  Horrible way to do business.  I'd tell them people, if you are butt hurt go join the infantry and earn your CIB and stop complaining about the food.

[Stonewall]

If it were me, knowing what TACP's do and where they are embedded, I would give them CIB's instead.  They are basically infantryman with different radios in my mind.  The CAB was designed b/c someone got butt hurt that they couldn't earn a CIB or CMB.  Horrible way to do business.  I'd tell them people, if you are butt hurt go join the infantry and earn your CIB and stop complaining about the food.

Here's the deal.  Each branch has their own way of recognizing its fighters for serving in direct combat.  They are equal in meaning, but worn differently.

A CIB is for an Army Infantryman serving in an 11 series MOS.
A CAB is for an Army Soldier who is engaged in direct combat, but is NOT an 11 series (Infantryman).
a CMB is for an Army medic serving in a 91 series MOS (it may be different series now)

The Air Force, Marine Corps, and Navy had it right all along, it just doesn't look as cool because it's a ribbon.

In the USMC, whether you're an Infantryman or a Tank Mechanic, if you are in direct combat, you get the CAR (Combat Action Ribbon).  Same for the Navy, a Corpsman and a Master at Arms will get the same CAR.

In the AF, whether you're a TACP, PJ, CCT, or a cook that happened to go outside the wire, you're going to get the CAM (Combat Action Medal). 

They are ALL for the same thing...direct enemy combat.

[AlphaSigOU]

In the AF, whether you're a TACP, PJ, CCT, or a cook that happened to go outside the wire, you're going to get the CAM (Combat Action Medal). 

They are ALL for the same thing...direct enemy combat.

Ex-Air Force cook... DEATH FROM WITHIN!!! 

[68w20]

If it were me, knowing what TACP's do and where they are embedded, I would give them CIB's instead.  They are basically infantryman with different radios in my mind.  The CAB was designed b/c someone got butt hurt that they couldn't earn a CIB or CMB.  Horrible way to do business.  I'd tell them people, if you are butt hurt go join the infantry and earn your CIB and stop complaining about the food.

A CIB is for an Army Infantryman serving in an 11 series MOS.
A CAB is for an Army Soldier who is engaged in direct combat, but is NOT an 11 series (Infantryman).
a CMB is for an Army medic serving in a 91 series 68 series MOS (it may be different series now)

FTFY.

[Hawk200]

And it still bothers me that when a member of the USAF wears the CAB, they have to wear it below their occupational badges. Just not right.

Nothng says it has to be. I've seen CMB's, CIB's, worn by airman both ways(above and below.)  Seen a number of Air Guardsmen wearing EIB's below occupational badges. Might be a case of "Well, you shouldn't be wearing it, but at least you're wearing ours higher."

[LGM30GMCC]

I suspect it's more of a 'most people don't realize the CIB, CAB, and CMB are supposed to come off when you are no longer assigned to an Army unit' thing.

Despite what some may think, most USAF folks I know don't go wandering around with a 36-2903 with us. I'm a little less worried about an Airman I'm not interacting with or have assigned to me and which badges he has on as I am about 'what the heck is a 'weekly lighting check' and how the hell do I need to accomplish one for the controlled area I am now in charge of?'

The NCO or officer that airman works for can/should be aware of that. If I am having to dig in and figure it out, especially at a glance. Now I'm aware of the rule so I can be more aware of it...but prior to now I really had minimum reason to give a crap.

[Flying Pig]

When I was in the Marines....   We had the 82nd Airborne come up to Lejuene for a royal butt spankin.... but I digress....  Anyway, they had TACPs with them that wore the 82nd patch.  Some had been in combat in the first gulf war.   This was in 94, so it was only a couple years later.  They had their stripes plus the 82nd patch on both sleeves in their BDUs.  It actually looked pretty cool. 

[Stonewall]

  They had their stripes plus the 82nd patch on both sleeves in their BDUs.  It actually looked pretty cool.

This was (and still sort of is) the norm back when we wore BDUs.  Now, TACPs are required to wear their ABUs when training and/or in CONUS.  And Army patches don't go on AF ABUs.  However, if they deploy and are wearing ACUs or Multi-Cams, then yes, they'll wear the unit patch of the Army unit they're supporting.  In fact, ALL Air Force personnel do this if they're attached to an Army unit.

My uniform in Afghanistan at the time was ABSGs, a special deployment uniform that had Velcro on the sleeves.  We fell under an Army unit and while unauthorized, many of the Airmen threw on the Army unit's patch to the Velcro.  I personally got handed one from their Sergeant Major, but only threw it on my back pack.  When my old Army Division (29th ID) came rolling through, I had to snatch one of their patches and proudly wore that off and on since I spent 5 years in the unit to include a deployment.