Jackets worn with the CAP distinctive uniform

[Eclipse]

3. I don't think this black jacket with grade is authorised for grey/whites.  However, it is authorised for the soon-to-be-toast  CSU (blue/white) with standard grey epaulettes epaulet sleeves.

It is not for the whites, yes on the CSU.

4. If you wear the Navy black windbreaker sans insignia, it is indistinguishable from a civilian outergarment WRT 39-1, so, yes, you could wear it in that mode.

Non-concur - it is no different than the blue one - a military garment and therefore prohibited for wear with the whites, distinguishable or not.

Unless cooler heads prevail, the CSU is gone as of 1 January 2012.  Due to that, I would not be surprised to see motions to make the black windbreaker/pullover sweater part of the G/W uniform.

I doubt it will happen, but would be nice - it is a sharp jacket with or without grade on it.

[RVT]

AF blue windbreaker not authorised for grey/whites.

And neither is the pullover sweater, but for some unknown bizarre reason the cardigan sweater is.  Its the only example of a USAF uniform component being mixed with CAP corporate clothing (after the end of the year anyway) ind its right there in the regulations though WHY I cannot guess.

I don't think this black jacket with grade is authorised for grey/whites.  However, it is authorised for the soon-to-be-toast  CSU (blue/white) with standard grey epaulettes.

The blue flight jacket with all insignia IS authorised and is essentially interchangable with the black leather jacket.

If you wear the Navy black windbreaker sans insignia, it is indistinguishable from a civilian outergarment WRT 39-1, so, yes, you could wear it in that mode. Unless cooler heads prevail, the CSU is gone as of 1 January 2012.  Due to that, I would not be surprised to see motions to make the black windbreaker/pullover sweater part of the G/W uniform.

All they have to do is allow the slide on rank to be used.  With no insignia these are already ok.

[Thom]

AF blue windbreaker not authorised for grey/whites.

And neither is the pullover sweater, but for some unknown bizarre reason the cardigan sweater is. Its the only example of a USAF uniform component being mixed with CAP corporate clothing (after the end of the year anyway) and its right there in the regulations though WHY I cannot guess.

Actually, there is at least one other: the AF Blue Flight Cap (with CAP device) is allowed with the Blue Corporate Flight Suit. Not sure why, but it's in the manual.



Thom

[cap235629]

AF blue windbreaker not authorised for grey/whites.

And neither is the pullover sweater, but for some unknown bizarre reason the cardigan sweater is. Its the only example of a USAF uniform component being mixed with CAP corporate clothing (after the end of the year anyway) and its right there in the regulations though WHY I cannot guess.

Actually, there is at least one other: the AF Blue Flight Cap (with CAP device) is allowed with the Blue Corporate Flight Suit. Not sure why, but it's in the manual.



Thom

where?

[Eclipse]

^ Heh...

[Spaceman3750]

AF blue windbreaker not authorised for grey/whites.

And neither is the pullover sweater, but for some unknown bizarre reason the cardigan sweater is.  Its the only example of a USAF uniform component being mixed with CAP corporate clothing (after the end of the year anyway) ind its right there in the regulations though WHY I cannot guess.

Just because those of us that wear the gray & whites are potentially big and furry doesn't mean that we don't need a jacket to wear... Why is it odd that they specified a uniform jacket that you can wear grade on for a corporate uniform?

[SarDragon]

If you wear the Navy black windbreaker sans insignia, it is indistinguishable from a civilian outergarment WRT 39-1, so, yes, you could wear it in that mode. Unless cooler heads prevail, the CSU is gone as of 1 January 2012.  Due to that, I would not be surprised to see motions to make the black windbreaker/pullover sweater part of the G/W uniform.

All they have to do is allow the slide on rank to be used.  With no insignia these are already ok.

There are two black Navy jackets. The "windbreaker" has a pointed collar and button cuffs, and does NOT have epaulets. This jacket is for wear by E-6 and below.

The "relax fit" jacket has a stand-up knit collar and knit cuffs and bottom, and epaulets, and is primarily for officers and CPOs. It may be optionally worn by E-6 and below with the new Service Uniform.

So, which one are we talking about here/ The mix in terminology is confusing the discussion.

[SarDragon]

Actually, there is at least one other: the AF Blue Flight Cap (with CAP device) is allowed with the Blue Corporate Flight Suit. Not sure why, but it's in the manual.

Thom

where?

Table 4-5 of CAPM 39-1, Line 6.

[cap235629]

Actually, there is at least one other: the AF Blue Flight Cap (with CAP device) is allowed with the Blue Corporate Flight Suit. Not sure why, but it's in the manual.

Thom

where?

Table 4-5 of CAPM 39-1, Line 6.

But in the circular world of CAPM 39-1, if the flight suit is not made of NOMEX, it is considered a utility uniform and the only headgear authorized is a ball cap.

Like anyone would know what material your clothes are made of at first glance.  My Tru-spec polycotton Utility Uniform looks just like the Navy Blue NOMEX flightsuit Vanguard sells.  You can't tell the difference until you feel it or read the the tag.

[Eclipse]

Like anyone would know what material your clothes are made of at first glance.  My Tru-spec polycotton Utility Uniform looks just like the Navy Blue NOMEX flightsuit Vanguard sells.  You can't tell the difference until you feel it or read the the tag.

or...

[davidsinn]

Like anyone would know what material your clothes are made of at first glance.  My Tru-spec polycotton Utility Uniform looks just like the Navy Blue NOMEX flightsuit Vanguard sells.  You can't tell the difference until you feel it or read the the tag.

or...

That's not a good reason to have two separate standards for an otherwise identical uniform. It would be like having different patches and headgear for winter weight BDUs vs summer weight.

[SarDragon]

Flight suits are for flying. Utility suits are utility-ing.

Different uses, different materials, different names.

What's so hard about that?

[davidsinn]

Flight suits are for flying. Utility suits are utility-ing.

Different uses, different materials, different names.

What's so hard about that?

OK, then why do they have different hats? They look the same at anything past arms length. A "flight suit" looks weird without a flight cap.

[cap235629]

Flight suits are for flying. Utility suits are utility-ing.

Different uses, different materials, different names.

What's so hard about that?

I have never seen a navy blue nomex flight suit.  Every blue flight suit I have seen is actually a utility uniform.  Cost is the primary reason.  Most of the flying I see is being done in the CAP polo anyway.....

[SarDragon]

Flight suits are for flying. Utility suits are utility-ing.

Different uses, different materials, different names.

What's so hard about that?

OK, then why do they have different hats? They look the same at anything past arms length. A "flight suit" looks weird without a flight cap.

According to the reference above, now quoted:

Flight cap or CAP baseball cap for both male and female.

Per Table 4-6, Line 6:

Headgear is not required, but the CAP baseball cap may be worn.

What's the problem?

Flight suits are for flying. Utility suits are utility-ing.

Different uses, different materials, different names.

What's so hard about that?

I have never seen a navy blue nomex flight suit.  Every blue flight suit I have seen is actually a utility uniform.  Cost is the primary reason.  Most of the flying I see is being done in the CAP polo anyway.....

I suppose that depends on the definition of Navy Blue. The flight suit I have, alleged to be that color, is a lighter shade than all the Navy Blue stuff I wore WIWOWD. These blue Nomex flight suits are available from Gibson & Barnes (flightsuits.com), and on eBay, where I got mine.

This one is royal blue, the one we can no longer wear.. Mine is a darker shade.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Most of the flying I see is being done in the CAP polo anyway.....

YMM really, really V to the nth degree.

There are people who wear the blue utility jumpsuit for flying clothing, again because of cost.

There are also people who wear B/BDU's for flying clothing.

There are also people who wear G/W for flying clothing.

There are also people who dislike uniforms so much that they just wear civvies to fly in with a CAP hat to be "compliant" with regs.

My blue jumpsuit from Tru-Spec, unless one would use a microscope, looks no different fabric-wise to my sage green Nomex bag.

I do not understand why the flight cap is not allowed with the blue jumpsuit.  The Air Force had to be at least minimally involved with that decision, since it's their flight cap.

Eclipse: Respectful non-concurrence.  Unless someone looks at the government-issue tag, the black Navy light jacket could easily be confused with an MA-1 or (more likely) L2B.

Here's a hopefully-better pic of the RAF jacket I originally posted (which was a photo from Evilbay):



http://www.allarms.co.uk/product.php?c=8&s=18&p=47

I do have to question, though, how efficacious it would be for those of us living Stateside to get a uniform item from the UK.

[Eclipse]

Eclipse: Respectful non-concurrence.  Unless someone looks at the government-issue tag, the black Navy light jacket could easily be confused with an MA-1 or (more likely) L2B.

Here's a hopefully-better pic of the RAF jacket I originally posted (which was a photo from Evilbay):



http://www.allarms.co.uk/product.php?c=8&s=18&p=47

Both the MA-1 and L2B are shiny / smooth jackets, while the windbreakers are cloth / flat.  You'd have to be really far away to not be able to tell.
For me it is not about tags but about the spirit of the reg, and certainly that is what the USAF people (who know to know) see as well.  With as many (arguably better) civilian choices as their are available, why push things just to make a point?  Sure you might have a coffee-house argument about the label and manufacture, but the cut is designed to have a military look, which for those not in a uniformed service or organization might be "ok", but isn't cricket for us.

[RVT]

Just because those of us that wear the gray & whites are potentially big and furry doesn't mean that we don't need a jacket to wear... Why is it odd that they specified a uniform jacket that you can wear grade on for a corporate uniform?

I actually wear the G/W more than anything else just because I like it.  I am well within height, weight & grooming to wear AF blue, I just usually don't.

The blue flight jacket is authorized over this uniform and that's what I use.  The USAF blue cardigan is also authorized, but is what I call a "Grandma sweater"  It was not originally intended to ever be worn exposed and why they put epaulets on it so you could wear it as an outergarment never made sense to me, especially when they are so clear that the pullover sweater cannot be used.  Why?

[Spaceman3750]

Like anyone would know what material your clothes are made of at first glance.  My Tru-spec polycotton Utility Uniform looks just like the Navy Blue NOMEX flightsuit Vanguard sells.  You can't tell the difference until you feel it or read the the tag.

or...

By the way... Either this guy forgot what PASS means or his aim just sucks. I hope I'm never in a fire with him behind the extinguisher .

[MIKE]

The RAF GPJ is far too similar to the lightweight blue jacket.  I have both, and I challenge you to tell the difference at a comfortable distance.  Sportsman's Guide sells them on occasion, that's how I got mine.