Hazing Subsitute?

[Kerrbie]

So Im at a little bit of a loss. If been thinking of a way to disciplin without hazing my cadets and the only thing I can think of is to have them write a paragraph or something of the importance of what they did wrong or why I asked them to do something.  I need some way to get through to them. It's not big stuff. Just forgetting items that I asked them to bring or not coming to the meeting at the time I told them.

[lordmonar]

There are all sorts of way of correcting behavior with out resulting to hazing.

- basic feed back techniques...tell them what they did wrong, how to do it right, and when you want to see the expected change.

- removal of privileges....no fun stuff until the bad behavior is corrected.

- withhold promotions

- Personal essays (explain why you screwed up, why it is wrong, and what you will do to correct it)

It is not really all that hard.  You just need to make sure that they know the standard, that they know that they failed to meet it, and what the need to do to correct it.

Any punishment simply need to be appropriate for the offense, timely and not cross any of the hazing lines.

The hazing rules do not mean you can't call out a cadet for screwing up...it simply means we need use effective corrective tools to get the desired behavior.

[arajca]

So Im at a little bit of a loss. If been thinking of a way to disciplin without hazing my cadets and the only thing I can think of is to have them write a paragraph or something of the importance of what they did wrong or why I asked them to do something.  I need some way to get through to them. It's not big stuff. Just forgetting items that I asked them to bring or not coming to the meeting at the time I told them.

If the cadet forgets to bring something they are told to, do you provide it? If so, STOP PROVIDING IT! When they can't complete whatever task requried them to bring the item, they'll stop forgetting.
Is there an impact if the cadet shows up late? If not, why should they be on time? The unit I work with requires cadets to report for testing (if they want to take a test) between 1830 and 1840. If they're not in line to report at 1840, they don't test. Simple. Not hazing. Not really even disciplining. Putting a direct cause/effect relationship in place that they can understand.

[Kerrbie]

Well They know why they need to get there the time i tell them too. and they know why i need them to bring what i ask and I certinlly DON'T provide it. Their not bad cadets Im really proud of them actutally its just the little things i cant get into their head ><

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well They know why they need to get there the time i tell them too. and they know why i need them to bring what i ask and I certinlly DON'T provide it. Their not bad cadets Im really proud of them actutally its just the little things i cant get into their head ><

Little things like what? Coming to attention? Drill movements? General knowledge?


Those would fall under withholding promotions until performance is satisfactory.

[Kerrbie]

Oooo no no not stuff like that. There like the only cadets that know drill and know their customs. They just cant remember what time they need to be there as many times as I, my flight sgt, and even my element leader as told them. >< as well as what they need to bring when i tell them to bring something.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Oooo no no not stuff like that. There like the only cadets that know drill and know their customs. They just cant remember what time they need to be there as many times as I, my flight sgt, and even my element leader as told them. >< as well as what they need to bring when i tell them to bring something.

Send an e-mail. Explain that late attendance/being unprepared without reason is a factor in consideration for promotions.

[Kerrbie]

That is a good idea because it is really starting to get on my nerves. Just watching our cadets in our squadron drill last week almost gave me an anerism.  I just transfered over to this one from another one and this one is pretty much re building so yeah.

[Eclipse]

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an allergic reaction occurs. Seek medical help right away.
drill gets worse or lasts more than 10 days.
redness or swelling is present.
testing lasts more than 3 days.
new symptoms occur.
ringing in the ears or loss of hearing occurs.


Notice: Individual results may vary. You should always consult with your Commander before starting this product or any cadet-related program.
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[raivo]

"I Can't Believe It's Not Hazing!"

[Kerrbie]

There are times i wish we could make them do push ups >< I always think it works

[Eclipse]

There are times i wish we could make them do push ups >< I always think it works

A topic oft discussed.

How does a punishment unrelated to the mistake fix the mistake?

(i.e. push-ups for dirty boots might give you stronger arms, but not clean boots)

[Kerrbie]

Oh no I compleatly agree with you. It's just frusterating some times.

[AirAux]

Welcome to leadership..

[Fuzzy]

Welcome to CAP 

Seriously I know you probably have a lot of experiance. Just a joke on CAP.

[JC004]

I don't see why CAP doesn't allow hazing.  There must be thousands of corporations that make their employees do push-ups when they don't show up to work on time. 

Why did you need to use hazing again?

An excellent start is finding out what the problem is.

[Kerrbie]

My cadets are amazing, they just can't seem to remember to get to the meeting when I tell them too and they cant seem to remember to bring materials for flight time. As many times as I, my Flight Sgt, and Element leader tell them during the meeting, during call downs, and a reminder before the meeting. -.- ><


Im gonna try sending an email this week and see if that helps. If not prob an essay. But I want to know what I can do instead of making them write an essay.

[Eclipse]

Do you have an easily accessible calendar that indicates what your activities will be and what they need?

Are you involving the parents in the notifications?

[Kerrbie]

Well it's just the cadets in my flight im concerned with. Im just a flight commander.  As for activties I have them all planned out but I dont know what Im going to be doing till a few days or even the day before the meeting. Our squadron is still rebuilding itself so stuff like the events and the ops orders are still in the works of being re done.

[Eclipse]

As for activties I have them all planned out but I dont know what Im going to be doing till a few days or even the day before the meeting.

The answer is in your question.

Cadets should know for at least 13 weeks ahead what is expected of them, not 13 hours.

Time to start working further ahead, and this is not your problem - the cadet commander and commander should be setting the schedule for the unit as a whole.

[Kerrbie]

haha oh trust me i know. My old squadron we actutally had a cadet ops officer that had the scedual at least 5 months ahead. Every meeting he would bother us and be like what are you doing on this week with your cadets. haha

[DC]

Does the time they are required to show up and/or does basic loadout of stuff they need change on a frequent basis?

[Kerrbie]

Not at all. The time has always been the same. Theres maybe 2 cadets who show up ontime. As for what to bring I havn't been their flight commander long so we havn't had much time to do anything else besides drill. So the materials I ask them to bring has only been for 2 meetings so far.

[JC004]

Did you ask them why?

[lordmonar]

Not at all. The time has always been the same. Theres maybe 2 cadets who show up ontime. As for what to bring I havn't been their flight commander long so we havn't had much time to do anything else besides drill. So the materials I ask them to bring has only been for 2 meetings so far.

Simple fix....."until you can show that you can be on time with the right equipment ready to do your assigned task....you will not be promoted!"

On the specific issue here though.....how long have you been with the unit?  Did you just walk in 2 weeks ago an evaluate that this is your only major problem.....or have you just been promoted/assigned to the job and this problem has been going on (under another Flight Commander) for a long time?

Ahhh....the joys of command.

It is possible that your predecessor allowed these guys to ignore the standards...or he did not effectively communicate said standards......it is also possible that this is an anomaly.  Two meetings does not necessarily make a trend.

But there are easy steps to keep it from becoming a trend.

1) Make sure your fecal matter does not stink....that is make sure you are always on time, ready, with the right equipment.
2) Explain to everyone exactly what your expectations are, what the standards are, and what the repercussions are. (this is something that every new leader should do from day one of being assigned to a new job/unit).
3) Give them and yourself a reasonable time period to make the adjustment (I would say a month) for the cadets to transition to the (new?) standards.
4) Observe them during the transition...providing corrective feed back and encouragement.
5) After the transition period then you can start on more strenuous corrective actions.

[Short Field]

^^^ AND discuss this problem with your chain of command and let them know how you intend to fix it.  A lot of people confuse this with asking for help but it is really just keeping your boss informed.  It might also keep you out of trouble in the future. 

[lordmonar]

^^^ AND discuss this problem with your chain of command and let them know how you intend to fix it.  A lot of people confuse this with asking for help but it is really just keeping your boss informed.  It might also keep you out of trouble in the future.

There you go again....keeping your leadership in the loop!  One would suspect that you are trying make CAP a professional organisation or something! 

[Kerrbie]

Well basiclly the situation is that when their flight commander was leaving to go into the mariens I walked in, and being an officer as well as being quiallifed and just slipped into the job.

As for the problems; the being there at a different time is something new that happened after I got there and every time a cadet walks in late im right on their butt asking why. They know my expectations because I made sure to make that clear.  But i was able to evaluate them a few weeks before officially taking the position.

[lordmonar]

Well there you go....time to lower the boom!

They know the standard.
They know what you expect of them.
They undersand the possible repercussions.

Time to go talk to your CC or DCC....explain the situation, explain that you wish to hold back their promotions, bar them from any "fun" activities, or maybe demote them.

There are lots of ways to punish people with out humiliating them or making them do push ups.

[Cecil DP]

 Get all your cadets together for a briefing by the  CC, DCC, or Cadet Commander to set the standards and let everyone know what is expected, and the consequences of failing to meet those standards. Onre rule for everybody, not just for your flight.

p.s. Kerbie:  Please use spell and grammar check

[Kerrbie]

Thanks guys!! This has been a big help.  :clap: