CAP ground teams

[brasda91]

just like slinging sandbags, is not a thing we should focus on.

I've filled sandbags in support of the Red Cross.  We were expecting some flooding and we were helping to be a head.  If there wasn't any victims in the "field" for a gt to search for and a shelter needed manning, my unit would help out.

[desert rat]

The biggest question is, Do we need cadets on ground teams?   For what real purpose will cadets serve on ground team missions?  Most places limit what youth can see, and they are not always available to task out.  Since cadets can't be mission pilots, scanners, or observers why are they allowed to be on ground team?  Why not open the scanner and observer jobs to them as well.

I like the cadets getting the ground team training because it is fun for them and simulates alot of the military field training that many seek.  Youth like to play Army and rough it in the field. For me I see ground team function as cadet training fun.  I don't see it so much as a mission based aspect.

We could easily roll UDF, ground radiological monitoring, and  flightline marshalling into the ground team member role.  Most of the same tasks are already done when training for ground team member.

[isuhawkeye]

um cadets can be on air crew.... if they are 18

[Tubacap]

We use cadets on Ground Teams all the time.  It's a force multiplier for sure, plus their training is just as good, sometimes better, than our senior officers.  True, when we finally make the find, there are definite restrictions and we luckily have a great debriefing procedure to go through, but they still make great contributions.

[sarmed1]

Pa is one of the more unique states that cadets play a huge role in the WSAR mission.  There are teams that are 90% cadet.  I havent seen it  lately, but WIWAC.....I remember seeing teams where a cadet was the team leader (and most experienced) and the senior along just to drive the van....

I certainly agree though that there needs to be a little thought put into cadet participation in ES.  Age is the easiest defining criterai to apply to a large number of personnel without having to take on each individual case by case sort of thing.
Basedon my experience both as a cadet and a senior; cadets on an operational ground team should be 16 or older (roping them in and trainnig them between 13-16 should be highly enbcouraged).  16 presents the advatage of maturity (yes I know I have seen immature 45 year olds) they have a likelyhood of be self transporting, plus adult sized expectations of physical ability in regards to lifting, endurance and attention spans

mk.

[RiverAux]

Actually, I think it is the norm that cadets make up a majority of ground team members. I think that ELT missions in the middle of the night are a bit more likely to be done by all-senior DF teams though. 

[Chris Jacobs]

I as a cadet go on almost any local ELT mission, and there is one other cadet south of me that is always on the team out of that unit.  but i would say that senior members make up most of the midnight teams.

[LTC_Gadget]

An additional thought regarding augmenting Red Cross efforts.. They have far greater public recognition than do we, at least in my part of the country (I grew up in the secret order of the CAP  ). Plus they are far better funded than are we. People give them millions even for specific disaster efforts. But no,  I'm not suggesting that throwing money at it solves the problem; just that those who suggest leaving traditionally RC missions to RC may have a point. So, don't we have to decide, at some point, possibly on a state-by-state basis, on what missions it is that we can make the most contribution for our limited resources, but sincere efforts, and maintain/increase competency on them?

[DNall]

I think the point the national organizaiton has been making as of late is that tehre should be exactly none of that state-by-state varriance, but rathr maximum standardization under a unified chain of command, that in fact the only reason we are divided along state lines is to account for varriables in state laws, but otherwise we are to be a national organization with national decision making, especially when it comes to missions & strategic priorities or vision.

[floridacyclist]

I see no problem with assisting RC on any of their missions even though I am not a huge fan of the ARC (ask me in PM if you want my true feelings); I just recognize that often they are the ticket to being allowed to play ball after a disaster.

I was even thinking that CAP could field damage assessment teams as sort of a RECON-lite since cadets (minors) are not allowed to serve on CAP RECON teams yet ARC allows them on damage assessment.

It wouldn't be totally out of line for us to put a SM as driver, with a navigator, MRO, logger, and 2 or more as assessors (observers) doing the RC-style of drive-by damage assessment.

We could also work comms; I have a question in with the national comm and legal staff as to whether we would be allowed to operate ham radios as part of our duties if we were assigned to assist W/ ARC since that is their primary method of comm.

[Earhart1971]

Was CAP left out of the high Visibility Boy Scout Search in North Carolina? Just wondering.

[IronRangerMN]

"The biggest question is, Do we need cadets on ground teams?   For what real purpose will cadets serve on ground team missions?  Most places limit what youth can see, and they are not always available to task out.  Since cadets can't be mission pilots, scanners, or observers why are they allowed to be on ground team?  Why not open the scanner and observer jobs to them as well.

I like the cadets getting the ground team training because it is fun for them and simulates alot of the military field training that many seek.  Youth like to play Army and rough it in the field. For me I see ground team function as cadet training fun.  I don't see it so much as a mission based aspect."

quote from desert rat

When i saw this i could not belive it. Cadets are all a ground team is, except for 1-3 seniors accompaning usually. You do need us, the cadets, sry to say desert rat.

It seems its more important to some people that the non-distress ELT's are found and not the missing person or body in the woods! Not only that but why push UDF or anything into GT??? Any good GT can do a DF'er as well as a UDF team. And why  should we scrap cadets as GT? Unlike many of the senior members, often cadets can get places in the wilderness and do things others could not do without having medical problems. Heck, I know also that untrained GT cadets can easily become problems. Thats why everyone needs to cut some of the AE from the cadets in there Squadrons and throw 'em out in the field. My squadron has a GT in place. We've got hundreds of hours of in-field training. And yes, this means in woods and swamp. We have even constructed a sweet, but not complete, obsticle course in the woods by our building. It will be a great thing to keep us well conditioned and agile. We do so much training that on a 4 day summer survival school, we saved a family stuck on a boat for 24-48 hours, with a baby i will add. For details pm me.

and DNall,

i like the points u make. One thing u said earlier about CAP providing money and gear for more advanced training. One reason we train more than any other squadron in MN is money does not seem to be required wen we train. We get into the thick woods and swamps of northern MN. We just walk or drive in POV's out to our training sites and we're off.

Another thing, we provide any squadron member with neccessary gear needed. At the moment we got like 30 LBE's set up and parts for mannnny more. (load bearing equipment) with pistol belts, y suspenders, 2 canteens with pouches, 2 m16 ammo pouches, compass pouch and ranger beads. We also issue 1 summer set of BDU's, 1 winter weight set, boots if we got the size, and gortex coats. We used to issue m-65 field jackets before we got like 40 gortex jackets. We got lots of current military issue ponchos, like 4 new litters, like 30 newish camo ALICE packs that r good to go. And we recently got a bouch of new military molle rucks with frame and suspenders. We also got many military artic sleeping bags, poncho liners, snow shoes, the list goes on. If the situation ever presented itself, we could supply like 200 guys with BDU's and 60+ guys with complete ground team stuff, not counting survival gear items. The team we got now is about 6 or more right now because 1 guy is in vegas for a job and another is at basic for the Guard right now.

Gear and money is no problem if your squadron is self-sufficient and knows how to do it without great cost etc, which sadly, most squadrons are not this squared away. At least I wish other cadet GT people would square away there field gear.

and all this gear does no good if everyone doesnt seem to be proffesional searchers with only the mission in mind. Its a steryotyping world we live in.