CAP Talk

What do you do to hold the attention of seniors that may not have an investment of a child in CAP? (Seems allot of the time is invested in the youth) How do you get a new senior excited about serving? When a new prospective senior walks in the door, how do you get them interested in serving? What is your selling point? I guess this segway/segue right into retention?

Run an active program that meets the needs of the seniors from an ES and PD perspective.

Don't waste people's time.

There should be a full evolving calendar each year of training that gets the members where they want
or need to be.

Have meetings every week.  Units that fall into the "twice a month trap" can wind up with members they don't see for
months because of timing.

Don't wait for someone to ask for something.  Commanders should know what their people need PD-Wise, and what they
want ES-wise (FYI, is a senior isn't involved in the CP, then the only thing left is ES, few join to balance a checkbook
or track equipment as their sole role).  AE portends to be a separate thing, but it basically supports ES and CP.

If a Commander doesn't know the above, that's where you start.

You can accomplish a ton in a couple hours a week with good planning and motivated people.

Ask them what they're interested in. Some folks may want to learn about inventory management and serving as a logistics officer can be a resume enhancer, even if it is volunteer work. Ditto for Finance.

Be honest about what your unit can offer. Know what neighboring units can offer - they might be a better fit than your unit.

If you haven't already done so, check out the Recruiting and Retention webinars posted in the Learning Management System in the Online Learning section of eServices.  There is some good stuff in those.

There's even a play list of the darn things on YouTube!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSiWtr2p4TIZo1qzhogUc5Fd9v6nHyWUJ

Yeah, ask them what they want to do, but also show them all the other jobs that Civil Air Patrol has. Some of the names do not necessarily translate into jobs that people are familiar with. Nor do the tasks necessarily translate into the names well. I ask the seniors to look at the Pamphlets for all the Specialty Tracks. The first page or two gives a pretty good description of what that Track is all about.

People will surprise you.

I had a Finance Officer who was a retired banker in real life. Never wanted to do anything more than that in a thriving squadron. Only the accounting and the books. Then she attended SLS and decided that becoming an accomplished public speaker was something that she should strive for. She entered the Professional Development track and got to teach a few lessons at the next SLS and TLC classes offered over the next couple of years and has thrived. You never know so do not make assumptions.

Quote from: MacGruff on June 25, 2019, 08:41:38 PM

Yeah, ask them what they want to do, but also show them all the other jobs that Civil Air Patrol has. ..... People will surprise you.

For sure.  Have a guy who joined recently because of an interest in the sUAS Program, but then he started looking at other opportunities as well, and his eyes widened when he saw "Historian".

You just never know. Like MacGruff said, expose them to everything.

And when do you show them everything? I.E. Rooms, equipment? Is this typically when you hold an open house or after they have joined?

Quote from: etodd on June 25, 2019, 09:09:41 PM

Quote from: MacGruff on June 25, 2019, 08:41:38 PM

Yeah, ask them what they want to do, but also show them all the other jobs that Civil Air Patrol has. ..... People will surprise you.

For sure.  Have a guy who joined recently because of an interest in the sUAS Program, but then he started looking at other opportunities as well, and his eyes widened when he saw "Historian".

You just never know. Like MacGruff said, expose them to everything.

You're like a broken record.  You must truly be excited about the future sUAS program.  :D

Quote from: AndyA60 on June 26, 2019, 12:49:01 AM
And when do you show them everything? I.E. Rooms, equipment? Is this typically when you hold an open house or after they have joined?

Nobody joins because of rooms & equipment.  Nobody sees the room we share with the Sea Cadets until after they join.

"And we have a projector, and two laptops, and a nice Brother all-in-one printer, and a Bluetooth barcode scanner, and some file cabinets and...."

More on point to OP:

QuoteWhat do you do to hold the attention of seniors that may not have an investment of a child in CAP?

How about "don't recruit people who's motivations don't align with the organizations?" or "If someone isn't sure, and you're not sure, what interests them about CAP, how about don't sign on the dotted line?"

Too often, commanders will take anybody who can fog a mirror and write a check, no matter their interest level, potential skill set, needs of the unit, needs of the organization, etc.

Its like recruiting pilots for a unit with no plane and no plane for 150 miles:  What are they really going to do week to week? Not much.

QuoteHow do you get a new senior excited about serving? When a new prospective senior walks in the door, how do you get them interested in serving? What is your selling point? I guess this segway/segue right into retention?

This is an absolute seque into retention. If you get someone to join CAP and a) they're not excited about what they're doing; b) they don't have a clear understanding of why they're there; and c) the unit doesn't have place for them, in 12 months they're going to bail.

"I sat around and didn't do anything."

The selling point is: "Don't sell what you don't got."  If you're a cadet squadron in a state with no ground mission, don't sell ground team like its gallivanting around the woods plucking people off mountain tops.  If you're a unit without access to a plane or a long way from your wing's locus of training, it might not be a good idea to recruit people with the premise that they're gonna be aircrew because their training pipeline is going to require travel and its going to be difficult.

OTOH, if you're like my unit 15-16 years ago and you wanted to get a plane, but the two nearest airplanes were 25+ miles in opposite directions, you recruited pilots with the message "We don't have a plane here yet. We're trying to get one. We need x qualified and checked out pilots to do so, and it will require our pilots to travel to either of those two planes to get checked out and to fly the planes to remain CAP-current. If you're willing to be one of those pilots, great. I can't tell you when a plane would come, but with 5 pilots it will eventually happen."

We did get that plane, and we've kept it, and the unit has a great flying mission and sometimes we have TWO planes at our airport.  But it took being straight up with the pilots and finding the 5 guys who were willing to make it happen for us. (and we turned away more than a few who weren't willing to work that hard. and thats fine)

Quote from: Fester on June 26, 2019, 05:12:47 AM

Quote from: etodd on June 25, 2019, 09:09:41 PM

Quote from: MacGruff on June 25, 2019, 08:41:38 PM

Yeah, ask them what they want to do, but also show them all the other jobs that Civil Air Patrol has. ..... People will surprise you.

For sure.  Have a guy who joined recently because of an interest in the sUAS Program, but then he started looking at other opportunities as well, and his eyes widened when he saw "Historian".

You just never know. Like MacGruff said, expose them to everything.

You're like a broken record.  You must truly be excited about the future sUAS program.  :D

No.. You obviously missed the post where I discussed how, when the flurry of initial training is complete, these drones will just sit in the closet for months like all the other gear.

What I was excited about was the new member seeing the "Historian Track" and being happy about getting into it. Everyone needs multiple interests. That will certainly help retention. :)

Quote from: NIN on June 26, 2019, 11:40:42 AM


We did get that plane, and we've kept it, and the unit has a great flying mission ....

Fantastic success story. Time and determination wins!  :)

Now for balance, we need the story of the Squadron that lost their plane so you could get it. "Gotta keep those hours up boys!"

Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2019, 05:13:20 PM
Don't waste people's time.

I really want to translate this into latin and make it our squadron logo.

Quote from: Holding Pattern on June 26, 2019, 08:54:50 PM

Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2019, 05:13:20 PM
Don't waste people's time.

I really want to translate this into latin and make it our squadron logo.

Non dissipabit populus simul


;D

My favorite Latin(?) motto is - Illegitimi non Carborundum.

As a senior who doesn't have a cadet in the program...I'm not interested in ES.
I have another senior on staff who never had a cadet in the program.
Neither of us are former cadets.

It's not just about keeping it interesting and busy. The things you do need to make you feel like you have a sense of purpose and belonging...that what you do accounts for something.

Talk to yours seniors and ask them "Why did you join? Why are you still here? What do you think would continue to keep you here?"

This type of topic tends to tell me that those individuals 'back home' were never asked this, and we're trying to fix a problem without going to the source.

Quote from: SarDragon on June 26, 2019, 11:21:19 PM
My favorite Latin(?) motto is - Illegitimi non Carborundum.

I like the one we had for our Expeditionary Airlift Unit which was comprised of entirely Air Guard and Air Force Reserve members - Carpe' per Diem.

 :clap: :clap:

Quote from: SarDragon on June 26, 2019, 11:21:19 PM
My favorite Latin(?) motto is - Illegitimi non Carborundum.

As a former Roman Catholic Altar Boy my Latin is still terrible, but shouldn't there be an "est" at the end of that motto?

topic drift

Quote from: NIN on June 28, 2019, 12:04:22 AM
topic drift

"Semper Topic Mutatione (et Vestium Scholarium)"

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on June 26, 2019, 11:33:55 PM
As a senior who doesn't have a cadet in the program...I'm not interested in ES.
I have another senior on staff who never had a cadet in the program.
Neither of us are former cadets.

It's not just about keeping it interesting and busy. The things you do need to make you feel like you have a sense of purpose and belonging...that what you do accounts for something.

Talk to yours seniors and ask them "Why did you join? Why are you still here? What do you think would continue to keep you here?"

Here is my question still. I am seeing this program be more about getting the KIDS to join, to get them into the JrROTC mind set, so the military can have fresh picking. Seems the whole program , specially within the composite squadrons is about the "kids"...which is fine, but those of us, like you have to buy into that. I also notice that yes, S&R is more the adult thing but if they are not wooing adults, then its looking like CAP is mostly just a military recruitment tool of kids. Correct me if I am wrong, but that seems to be the heavy of it. I wish they would be honest with adults who join thinking they will make a difference, in that is NOT the main focus anymore apparently. I see they use methods of keeping the kids excited and wanting to join, but do NONE of that with perspective adults.


[fixed quote tag]

Sadly, the last 2 Composite Squadrons that I was a Member of (5 yrs ago) had no Senior program whatsoever. The Unit served the Cadet program, and only the Cadets. Every meeting was Cadet-centered and all were expected to 'pitch in' to 'help' the Cadets. Seniors showed up once a week to have coffee and had nothing to look forward to.

Fast-forward 2 years: 80% of seniors had not renewed, moved to another unit, or moved onto Group/Wing staff. Those 6 that stayed were 100% devoted to the Cadet program... in a Composite Unit.

Quote from: CAP9907 on September 21, 2019, 02:41:38 AM

Fast-forward 2 years: 80% of seniors had not renewed, moved to another unit, or moved onto Group/Wing staff. Those 6 that stayed were 100% devoted to the Cadet program... in a Composite Unit.

No pilots? No airplane? Makes it more difficult to train any of the ES routes.

pilots left and Wing took the plane shortly thereafter as it wasn't being flown

Sadly I too will probably be bailing only after a short while. Already I have seen other seniors say "never mind" or "I am not a baby sitter of other peoples kids" It has clearly just evolved into a YOUTH recruitment tool to build the military. (change my mind). I do not see a search and rescue program with adults running it, it will go by way of the horse and buggy too. I do not even see a large number of parents wanting to be involved. Yes, I am seeing this whole thing just turn into a jrROTC program.

CAP is decidedly local.

If you don't see a senior program, and you want one, make one.

Quote from: AndyA60 on September 21, 2019, 05:12:33 PM
Sadly I too will probably be bailing only after a short while. Already I have seen other seniors say "never mind" or "I am not a baby sitter of other peoples kids" It has clearly just evolved into a YOUTH recruitment tool to build the military. (change my mind). I do not see a search and rescue program with adults running it, it will go by way of the horse and buggy too. I do not even see a large number of parents wanting to be involved. Yes, I am seeing this whole thing just turn into a jrROTC program.

You seem to be fixated on CAP being a "...recruitment tool to build the military." Yet, USAF does not consider that to be so and the number of cadets NOT joining the military far exceeds those who do. (FWIW, JROTC is no longer considered as a recruitment source).

Sadly, you appear to be categorizing all things in CAP, a nation-wide organization, based on your limited exposure to what goes on at the local level. You should get out more.


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I haven't been a member of a squadron in about 30 years, however I know that interest lies in giving a member something of value; what ever that may be.  Opportunities for learning, relating, and performing lead to a successful program.  Yes, it is that simple.  The hard part is actually doing it.   ;D

Quote from: AndyA60 on September 21, 2019, 05:12:33 PM
It has clearly just evolved into a YOUTH recruitment tool to build the military. (change my mind). I do not see a search and rescue program with adults running it, it will go by way of the horse and buggy too. I do not even see a large number of parents wanting to be involved. Yes, I am seeing this whole thing just turn into a jrROTC program.

I can't change your mind because I'm not in your squadron (or in your area), at least I don't think am. I have been in CAP for a very long time, just reached 32 years this year. While many of the hundreds of cadets that have come through my squadrons joined the military, I would say maybe (a big MAYBE) only half have.  Here's the thing, I'm a military guy...been in for 25 years and in two branches, and yet, I have never been a commander, deputy commander for cadets, or in any position for that matter, where I or my staff have focused on being a recruiting tool for the military. Is it a tool, sure. I've known more people in the military that were Boy Scouts than were in CAP, probably a 5 to 1 ratio (just a WAG, here).

I've been in five squadrons and four wings, and have served at Wing HQ, and EVERYWHERE I've been, to include squadrons where I held a significant leadership role, have mostly been equally balanced between the three missions of CAP. Sure, some may lean toward one area than the other, but I've known a lot (too many, in fact) of squadrons who are "drill team squadrons" or "ES only squadrons." 

Currently, we have 58 cadets in our squadron and we meet on an Air Force base. Without taking a formal poll of our cadets, my guess would be that maybe, another BIG MAYBE, 1/3 of our cadets see themselves joining the military. We are working on strengthening our ES (ground ops, we don't have planes) capabilities and have about 15 cadets actively working towards their GTM-3 rating. We have two Cadet GTLs, and one in training to be a GBD. On the senior side, we have a few GTLs and one GBD (I'm in training to re-qualify as a GBD).  We have about five senior member aircrew members as well (only one pilot, a recent transfer).

We have a good AE program, but it could be stronger. But it's better than most I've seen. We have 12 cadets working toward their Model Rocketry badge, too.

Our cadet program is as strong as I've seen in three decades. In fact, I'd say it's more organized than most I've seen. We have cadet public affairs officers, cadet ES NCOs, a Model Rocketry NCOIC, Great Start Flight Commander and Flight Sergeant (just got 16 new cadets in Great Start, too).

So, while I can't speak to your squadron turning into a JROTC program, our large-ish squadron (72 members) is far from that. I'm not bragging on my squadron, we have room for improvement, but I'm here to say that ours does not serve solely as a recruiting tool for the military. We encourage our cadets to look into and consider all options after high school. We have two cadets who are also in AF ROTC (college level - one sophomore, one junior), and a couple other cadets in college or taking college courses while in high school. In the 13 months I've been in this squadron, we've had ONE, ONLY ONE, cadet join the military (Air Force, as an air traffic controller).

Clearly, your mileage may vary.

We split the program, cadets on one day, Seniors on a different day. Cadet program tracked SMs and admins attend the cadet day, everyone else attends the senior day.

We recruit to both sides with vigor and fun. Not as organized yet as we want, but with a 20% increase we are having fun! (100% year over year, the 20% is in the last month!)

Quote from: AndyA60 on September 21, 2019, 05:12:33 PM
Sadly I too will probably be bailing only after a short while. Already I have seen other seniors say "never mind" or "I am not a baby sitter of other peoples kids" It has clearly just evolved into a YOUTH recruitment tool to build the military. (change my mind). I do not see a search and rescue program with adults running it, it will go by way of the horse and buggy too. I do not even see a large number of parents wanting to be involved. Yes, I am seeing this whole thing just turn into a jrROTC program.

I'm sorry nobody here has yet been able to de-program you from your pre-conceived (incorrect) notion that CAP is a "military recruitment tool."  I, too, could quote how few cadets I've known have gone that path.  But judging by your stubborn decision to ignore the others who have tried, I'll refrain from wasting my time.  :)

If you have members bailing without decent cause, your unit needs a reboot.  Run the program well, and people won't bail.  Run the program badly, your unit will end up dead or on the verge of death.  I command a Cadet Squadron with 49 cadets and 21 seniors.  Yes, most of the seniors are parents of cadets, but they ALL have the desire to learn and grow outside of the Cadet Program.  Feeding the desire of both cadet and seniors is part of your Commander's job.  If he is failing at that, he should correct it or step aside.

Quote from: AndyA60 on September 20, 2019, 09:42:55 PM

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on June 26, 2019, 11:33:55 PM
As a senior who doesn't have a cadet in the program...I'm not interested in ES.
I have another senior on staff who never had a cadet in the program.
Neither of us are former cadets.

It's not just about keeping it interesting and busy. The things you do need to make you feel like you have a sense of purpose and belonging...that what you do accounts for something.

Talk to yours seniors and ask them "Why did you join? Why are you still here? What do you think would continue to keep you here?"

Here is my question still. I am seeing this program be more about getting the KIDS to join, to get them into the JrROTC mind set, so the military can have fresh picking. Seems the whole program , specially within the composite squadrons is about the "kids"...which is fine, but those of us, like you have to buy into that. I also notice that yes, S&R is more the adult thing but if they are not wooing adults, then its looking like CAP is mostly just a military recruitment tool of kids. Correct me if I am wrong, but that seems to be the heavy of it. I wish they would be honest with adults who join thinking they will make a difference, in that is NOT the main focus anymore apparently. I see they use methods of keeping the kids excited and wanting to join, but do NONE of that with perspective adults.


[fixed quote tag]

The CAP Cadet Program is a JROTC-like program. That's very basis of the program is to provide a youth leadership development curriculum under an Air Force-style structure in both practical leadership application (i.e., chain of command; at times, subject matter) and conduct (i.e., traditions; courtesies). That's where the "military part" ends. There is no pressure to join the military. There is no paperwork indicating as such. There is no contract.

I literally just presented to new parents 3 days ago—the day before you made this post—how CAP is not a military recruitment program; however, it does come with benefits for those who want to pursue a military career by means of a number of available persons to be able to approach with questions seeking guidance. There are a number of CAP cadets who do wish to go a military route, whether direct enlistment after high school, ROTC in college, service academy, or officer candidate program after college. CAP can help prepare teens to pursue those options by developing them as young professionals, addressing deficiencies in interviewing and essay writing, and other areas that may be graded or evaluated as they undergo various career or scholastic application processes. Many cadets elect not to go into the military and seek similar guidance in becoming aeronautics majors, or studying mechanical engineering, or IT infrastructure management, or automobile maintenance trades (among many other career paths). CAP has a vast amount of resources to turn to in its adult membership and former cadet contacts who can assist in providing information and support so that cadets can enter into higher education, the workforce, or military after high school.

If you're upset with any decline in cadet involvement in Emergency Services—if there is one (I have no clue)—then that's something to address as far as the enthusiasm and promotion of other programs which are not directly linked to the Cadet Program but may be opportunistic.

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on September 22, 2019, 02:25:13 PM
The CAP Cadet Program is a JROTC-like program. That's very basis of the program is to provide a youth leadership development curriculum under an Air Force-style structure in both practical leadership application (i.e., chain of command; at times, subject matter) and conduct (i.e., traditions; courtesies). That's where the "military part" ends. There is no pressure to join the military. There is no paperwork indicating as such. There is no contract.

Sort of. Having been in both, JROTC was much more recruitment oriented, much less academic in orientation, totally lacking in moral leadership / CD  (as a subject matter). Both great experiences, but CAP is the far, FAR better and more complete program.

Quote from: AndyA60 on June 25, 2019, 05:09:24 PM
What do you do to hold the attention of seniors that may not have an investment of a child in CAP? (Seems allot of the time is invested in the youth) How do you get a new senior excited about serving? When a new prospective senior walks in the door, how do you get them interested in serving? What is your selling point? I guess this segway/segue right into retention?

Commander's can make or break a members participation and membership.

Realize the most valuable thing they give CAP is their time. Treat them with Respect, Do your best to match their desire with the Mission.

If they begin to back off on their support then ask why and not make assumptions.

Recognize their efforts because they don't have to be there. IF CAP doesn't then someone else probably will.

Answer emails, return calls, and know that they are Volunteers who want to make a difference and if they don't feel that way then they will find somewhere else to go.

The Civil Air Patrol hasn't been utilized by the Air Force for recruitment purposes, and we have always had existing specialties for seniors that want to do something that doesn't involve paper pushing. And let's be honest with ourselves, the seniors exist for two things; SAR, and the cadet program.

Quote from: Jim Lahaie on September 24, 2019, 01:35:10 PM
The Civil Air Patrol hasn't been utilized by the Air Force for recruitment purposes, and we have always had existing specialties for seniors that want to do something that doesn't involve paper pushing. And let's be honest with ourselves, the seniors exist for two things; SAR, and the cadet program.

Oh the "Radio Police" are going to be after you! >:D  Don't you know the fourth and most important mission is Communications! :o

Quote from: Jim Lahaie on September 24, 2019, 01:35:10 PM
The Civil Air Patrol hasn't been utilized by the Air Force for recruitment purposes, and we have always had existing specialties for seniors that want to do something that doesn't involve paper pushing. And let's be honest with ourselves, the seniors exist for two things; SAR, and the cadet program.

CAP isn't marketed has a primary recruitment source, but there's no question it's a recruiting tool.  Both directly and indirectly.

As to what Seniors do, I don't disagree as shorthand, but just as only ~3% of the USAF flies, the seniors "keep the doors open" on all aspects
of the program.

Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2019, 03:14:52 PM

Quote from: Jim Lahaie on September 24, 2019, 01:35:10 PM
The Civil Air Patrol hasn't been utilized by the Air Force for recruitment purposes, and we have always had existing specialties for seniors that want to do something that doesn't involve paper pushing. And let's be honest with ourselves, the seniors exist for two things; SAR, and the cadet program.

Oh the "Radio Police" are going to be after you! >:D  Don't you know the fourth and most important mission is Communications! :o

Comms is part of ES in the same way AE is really just a part of of ES and the CP.

Quote from: Eclipse on September 24, 2019, 03:40:54 PM

Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2019, 03:14:52 PM

Quote from: Jim Lahaie on September 24, 2019, 01:35:10 PM
The Civil Air Patrol hasn't been utilized by the Air Force for recruitment purposes, and we have always had existing specialties for seniors that want to do something that doesn't involve paper pushing. And let's be honest with ourselves, the seniors exist for two things; SAR, and the cadet program.

Oh the "Radio Police" are going to be after you! >:D  Don't you know the fourth and most important mission is Communications! :o

Comms is part of ES in the same way AE is really just a part of of ES and the CP.

AE also includes a community outreach program, which is separate from ES and the CP.

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on September 24, 2019, 05:40:47 PM
AE also includes a community outreach program, which is separate from ES and the CP.

Yes, that's the rhetoric, but it's not really a "mission" in the way that CP and ES are, which are both independent
from the other (beyond sharing the same people).

If you peel out the CP & ES-related parts of AE, and it went away as a "mission", few would even notice.

Quote from: Eclipse on September 24, 2019, 05:58:52 PM

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on September 24, 2019, 05:40:47 PM
AE also includes a community outreach program, which is separate from ES and the CP.

Yes, that's the rhetoric, but it's not really a "mission" in the way that CP and ES are, which are both independent
from the other (beyond sharing the same people).

If you peel out the CP & ES-related parts of AE, and it went away as a "mission", few would even notice.

Maybe that's a motivation/retention item for a unit to focus on: find a senior member willing to tackle AE outreach.

Wings are really starting to take notice of AEM recruitment. There are some senior members who spend 50% of their CAP efforts doing just that.

Quote from: Jim Lahaie on September 24, 2019, 01:35:10 PM
The Civil Air Patrol hasn't been utilized by the Air Force for recruitment purposes, and we have always had existing specialties for seniors that want to do something that doesn't involve paper pushing. And let's be honest with ourselves, the seniors exist for two things; SAR, and the cadet program.

Never say "hasn't." The CAP cadet program has been used for recruiting purposes in the past, both by the Army Air Corps and the USAF


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