A Song of Work and Time

[Майор Хаткевич]

I believe you are correct, a PAO is required.  Maybe one of the myriad items in the CAP quagmire that doesn't always, or even often, make sense?

You do know the "best kept secret in America" is a statement with a negative connotation, right?

[SunDog]

Just saying, CAP has real big problems with process, with procedure, with organization.  Our model for managment isn't working real well.  If we neeed constant heroics, in terms of hours required, to get the job done, we should be looking at the components of the job, get some serious analysis goping on the burden pushed down to the sqdn level. Bite the bullet, start looking at some business process re-engineering. Big time.

My thought was some staff functions are a drain on resources (people time), compared to the value returned.  One size fits all may not be smart; Riveraux mention once being CC of a good sized sqdn, and it sounded like they had a lot going on, plenty of moving parts.  Maybe a PAO and a PD officer provided a good return for that sqdn?

Smaller sqdn, maybe not so much?  Not completelty without value, just not worth diluting the hours available for things with more meaningful returns.  Not picking on PAO, or PD, for that matter, just a generic example of the bigger picture.

For my sqdn, it'd make sense to pass something up to a wing PAO, let them flog it around.  Lot's of things are "good ideas", stand alone, like flossing or washing your car.  Probably not as important as seeing to that pace-maker battery or replacing your brakes.  With limited resources (people, time), it seems like we should have some discipline about budgeting the FTEs we have, be smart enough to streamline our processes, tailor them to situations and reality.

It sounds like we're hurting for people, though I don't know the big picture.  I thinkj Eclipse mentioned we're loosing sqdns. We all know the books are cooked for membership count, at least regarding active, contributing members. 

My intutition is CAP is probaly well on the wrong side of the curve, as far as process management.  A glance at the list of Pubs, Forms, and Regs is a clear indication that we're in need of a makeover.  Whatever your area of interest, staff, ES, CP, whatever, you'll run into processes that wern't thought through for the last mile, or contain redundancy, or data collection that isn't used.

Tough to change a culture; some organizations try and fail, or resist and die. CAP will be here next year, change or no change. Probably be here in ten years, too, but perhaps with real tough changes made - imposed by circumstance, rather than self-initiated.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Smaller sqdn, maybe not so much?  Not completelty without value, just not worth diluting the hours available for things with more meaningful returns.  Not picking on PAO, or PD, for that matter, just a generic example of the bigger picture.

Smaller units are the ones that NEED a good PAO. Marketing, marketing, marketing. They need to get new members, not just "be", because that will lead to "were".

[raivo]

Tough to change a culture; some organizations try and fail, or resist and die. CAP will be here next year, change or no change. Probably be here in ten years, too, but perhaps with real tough changes made - imposed by circumstance, rather than self-initiated.

Indeed. The USAF ICBM community is experiencing this firsthand right now.

[SunDog]

Smaller sqdn, maybe not so much?  Not completelty without value, just not worth diluting the hours available for things with more meaningful returns.  Not picking on PAO, or PD, for that matter, just a generic example of the bigger picture.

Smaller units are the ones that NEED a good PAO. Marketing, marketing, marketing. They need to get new members, not just "be", because that will lead to "were".

Sigh. . .flip the binoculars around, forget the PAO thingy for now; Bigger picture issues, per OP? Deck chairs, Titanic, that sort of perspective?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well that's the thing. There's only 5-6 required positions. Grow with the unit on the rest.

[JeffDG]

Well that's the thing. There's only 5-6 required positions. Grow with the unit on the rest.

Commander
Safety (CAPR 62-1, 3(a)(1))
Supply (CAPR 174-1 1-6(j)(1))
Communications ((CAPR 174-1 1-6(j)(1))
Public Affairs (CAPR 190-1, 3(a))


Any that I'm missing?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Finance?

[NC Hokie]

Finance?

Yep, that's one too.

[SunDog]

It isn't the positions so much as it is the work they do - the value/impact/necessity of the time spent.  SUI, other paper chases, forms, administirvia, blockers in the way of mission accomplishment.

I don't care if they add 20 required positions, or eliminate all but two; if the processes stay broke, CAP stays stuck in the rut.  And the churn. Good weekend on ya. . . all. .

[Eclipse]

Well that's the thing. There's only 5-6 required positions. Grow with the unit on the rest.

Commander
Safety (CAPR 62-1, 3(a)(1))
Supply (CAPR 174-1 1-6(j)(1))
Communications ((CAPR 174-1 1-6(j)(1))
Public Affairs (CAPR 190-1, 3(a))


Any that I'm missing?

Isn't AEO required now?

Though the nuance between "required" and "can't be the CC" is lost on smaller units, I think the only one that can't be the CC as ADY is Finance.
All the rest can just be the CC.

[Eclipse]

I went and checked, there's just under 80 CAPRs that commanders are responsible for complying with.

I can't tell you how many frustrating conversations I've had with a staffer at a higher echelon where they were woefully misinformed
about their specific lane, when all they had one one reg or process to deal with.

"All you need to know is one CAPR. I have to know >all< of them..."

[Eclipse]

If it takes you more than half an hour to set up a CAPF 5 ride, something is radically wrong.

Seriously.

Your pilot records should be current and why would you need multiple FROs?

[SunDog]

Need to scan the docs and email 'em every year. I don't  have the check list with me right now, but it's a few FAA, and a couple CAP docs. I do recall front-and-back for my ticket, and perhaps the medical. More than one, less than six?  Honestly, the Form 5 isn't the worst process, just another clunky one. . . anyway;

C12 to fly to and from the checkride airport, normal FRO, two releases, two WMIRS, two 104, etc. . .

"A"  something or other for the checkride, has to be an IC. I hear that's peculiar to a few wings.

So, three sorties in WMIRS, of course. . .it's not bugging me that much this time; it's my last Form 5, so just gonna enjoy the x-ctry and the checkride. Doing recon for some buds on a new CP, since I have nothing to lose!

I almost let the system trip me up on an AFAM recently; on an out and back sortie (4+ hours), weather got hinky, wind came up, and there was a big runway, into the wind, right under me. And Flight Service telling me it was all gonna be good in about two hours.

I almost pressed on to home-drome, since I knew it'd be a mess for the IC; multiple aircraft on the missoin, sorties gacked/changed already, etc.  Then I realized I didn't care, actually - not my problem!  And besides, we had bio needs.  I wasn't listening to the CAP FM, but the MO was still talking a rope when we entered the pattern. . .They wanted "clarification" and "intentions" and RSVP; I bailed him out, told him to hang-up and help me look for traffic and listen for ATC calls. We had burgers.

But gad! They're still sorting that one out six weeks later - I got an email regarding Hobbs and fuel this morning. . ..

If I'd pranged the beast on the x-wind at home-dome, I'd be under the bus (probably rightfully so, and upset with myself). . .

[Eclipse]

You've got a lot of "not related to F5" in there mixed in with your F5.

...not my problem!

This seems to be a mantra with your CAP involvement, and for the record, telling an MO to "hang-up" on mission comms
and listen to ATC calls, especially when you're making a descision which breaks your sortie plan is not only >NOT< proper procedure,
but an excellent way to not have to worry about flying CAP planes for a while.

[SunDog]

Sometimes I'm not sure when you're serious, and when you are not. . . are you just trying to wind me up, for the entertainment value? I'd like to be a fly on the wall when an IC whined about it: (not that ours did - he's a good guy, with common sense. He understood we were busy and he'd have to wait. And that it was my call to make).

IC:  "That danged pilot decided to make a precautionary landing for weather, etc., and I want that SOB 2B'ed TODAY!"

WK: "Did they call in and tell you their plan?"

IC: "Yes, the arrogant, communist inspired, Volvo driving, Brie eating, no good. . .and he and the MO stopped answering the FM!"

WK: "Wasn't he about to enter the traffic pattern at a busy airport?"

IC: "Just an excuse . .we still needed critical information regarding the sortie - some real 'can't-wait' stuff, like wheels up time. . .and such."

WK: "Didn't he call you from his cell after parking the airplane - like in five minutes or so?"

IC: "Correct - he delayed our critical decision making for his own convenience; he has to go Colonel!"

WK: "What were the winds at home-drome?"

IC:  "15, gusts to 24. But the x-wind component was only 19 or so; and that runway is 25 feet wide! I can park my Studebaker in my driveway, and THAT's only 8 feet wide!"

WK: "Heck, that car weighs more than the airplane; you must be a heck of a driver! This guy sounds lame. . How many aircraft were still up/"

IC: : "Uh, no others. He was last one in."

WK: "O.K. to summarize, this guy landed out for winds and bio break, after a 4 hour sortie, told you all about it, where he was, where he was landing,  then went off-line at or near pattern entry time? Then called you with down-safe, in something like less than 10 minutes or so?"

IC: "Sadly, it gets worse. Earlier, he made us wait while he was talking to Flight Service.  The MO told US to standby while the MP was yammering on VHF over weather or some other trivia. . .

WK: "Wow. Self absorbed jerk, sounds like. . ."

IC: "Exactly! AND - he skipped the change of command and always wears a polo and grays!"?

WK: "Oh yeah, he's gotta go. Gimme the form. . ."

[SunDog]

But we digress from OP again!

Someone, anyone, (other than Eclipse or me) suggest one process that is inefficient ot excessivley time consuming, a good candidate for re-engineering? 

[Eclipse]

Sometimes I'm not sure when you're serious, and when you are not. . . are you just trying to wind me up, for the entertainment value? I'd like to be a fly on the wall when an IC whined about it: (not that ours did - he's a good guy, with common sense. He understood we were busy and he'd have to wait. And that it was my call to make).

Both, since you make them conveniently accessible.

MO's are not "co-pilots" and don't need to be on ATC for any reason - that takes them >OFF< the radio
they are assigned to be on.  A PIC negotiating a complex pattern and talking to ATC does not in any
way impact or negate the MO's need to stay in contact with mission base, assuming that is part of the
sortie profile.

This kind of nonsense is why we have constant issues with radio panels being changed around
from the preferred configurations and less experienced MOs not being able to communicate and/or
Beckers tuned to commercial radio stations.

But we digress from OP again!

Actually this is pretty much on-topic.

One of the reasons the regulations are so complex and in some places convoluted is because of
members over the years "knowing better", forcing the leadership to add more verbiage
to accommodate the anticipated nonsense of people who can't jsut follow the rules and use
common sense without every action being a political statement about who's in charge,
or which procedures are actually "optional" in the eyes of a given "empowered" individual.

[Alaric]

Well that's the thing. There's only 5-6 required positions. Grow with the unit on the rest.

Commander
Safety (CAPR 62-1, 3(a)(1))
Supply (CAPR 174-1 1-6(j)(1))
Communications ((CAPR 174-1 1-6(j)(1))
Public Affairs (CAPR 190-1, 3(a))


Any that I'm missing?

Isn't AEO required now?

Though the nuance between "required" and "can't be the CC" is lost on smaller units, I think the only one that can't be the CC as ADY is Finance.
All the rest can just be the CC.

Safety can not be the CC

[Eclipse]

Safety can not be the CC

CAPR 5-4 Page 1
b. "Should" indicates a non-mandatory or preferred method of accomplishment
[nondirective].

CAPR 62-1 Page 2
(1) Every chartered unit (except region HQ and wing 000 and 999) shall formally
appoint a safety officer in eServices with qualifications appropriate to that unit's operational
activities. Members in command positions should not simultaneously serve as that unit's safety
officer. Whenever possible, and especially in flying units, members with flying experience
should be selected as a safety officer. Safety officers will report directly to the commander
(reference CAPR 20-1, Organization of Civil Air Patrol).