A time when flying was still exciting...
Airline: The Story of Pan Am (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5w62jHUovM#ws)
On October 24, 1978, President Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_deregulation,) prompting the same
sort of disruptive industry change as would soon come to the telephone system with the divestiture of the Bell System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System) in 1982.
"In 2011, Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer (who worked with Senator Kennedy on airline deregulation in the 1970s) wrote:
What does the industry's history tell us? Was this effort worthwhile? Certainly it shows that every major reform brings about new, sometimes unforeseen, problems. No one foresaw the industry's spectacular growth, with the number of air passengers increasing from 207.5 million in 1974 to 721.1 million last year. As a result, no one foresaw the extent to which new bottlenecks would develop: a flight-choked Northeast corridor, overcrowded airports, delays, and terrorist risks consequently making air travel increasingly difficult. Nor did anyone foresee the extent to which change might unfairly harm workers in the industry. Still, fares have come down. Airline revenue per passenger mile has declined from an inflation-adjusted 33.3 cents in 1974, to 13 cents in the first half of 2010. In 1974 the cheapest round-trip New York-Los Angeles flight (in inflation-adjusted dollars) that regulators would allow: $1,442. Today one can fly that same route for $268. That is why the number of travelers has gone way up. So we sit in crowded planes, munch potato chips, flare up when the loudspeaker announces yet another flight delay. But how many now will vote to go back to the "good old days" of paying high, regulated prices for better service? Even among business travelers, who wants to pay "full fare for the briefcase?"
But that doesn't mean we can't miss the "good old days", just a little.
Yea, the people of America got what they wanted and asked for: "greyhound of the skies" flight experience. Thanks.
-An airline captain
Some things we had prior to deregulation
1. Interchangeable tickets; If there was a cancellation or long delay with your flight, you could go to a competitor and exchange the ticket to fly on theirs
2. Eastern Shuttle: Hourly $10 flights between Boston, New York, and Washington, DC. When the flight was full, they'd pull up another aircraft and keep boarding.
3. Friendly Sky's
4. Leg room between seats.
Quote from: MSG Mac on April 19, 2013, 11:12:30 PM
Some things we had prior to deregulation
1. Interchangeable tickets; If there was a cancellation or long delay with your flight, you could go to a competitor and exchange the ticket to fly on theirs
2. Eastern Shuttle: Hourly $10 flights between Boston, New York, and Washington, DC. When the flight was full, they'd pull up another aircraft and keep boarding.
3. Friendly Sky's
4. Leg room between seats.
Don't forget junior pilot wings, decks of cards, gromming kits for layovers and all the cool stuff with airline logos -- sorry, I've collected junior pilot wings since college and use them now as an AE lesson.
I remember when flying on an airliner was something that you dressed up for and were treated royally. My two favorite airlines were United and Northwest Orient, the latter being the one who took me to and back from overseas in the Air Force.
Imagine my surprise in 2009 when I went to NSC at Maxwell, got herded on to a Delta aircraft that had seen better days, you paid for everything, and the flight attentents were wearing jeans......?
I got better sevice aboard a C-130 with red jump seats!
Sometimes it feels like Greyhound with wings
The last Greyhound I rode in had more legroom than the last plane I had a ride in. :(
But you know, when I fly on Southwest I get exactly what I pay for, minus a bunch of added on fees. On-time transportation from point A to point B.
Quote from: PHall on April 21, 2013, 02:34:49 PM
But you know, when I fly on Southwest I get exactly what I pay for, minus a bunch of added on fees. On-time transportation from point A to point B.
No different than any other airline. The fees are just different places. If it cost X to fly the flight, the airline will charge that amount.
"One major reason Southwest prices can seem higher than competitors, he noted, is because Southwest doesn't charge fees to check baggage or penalties to change tickets. Check one bag for $25 each way and a Southwest ticket that is $50 higher than another airline may, in fact, cost the same."
I cant even imagine what it was like to fly on the old Pan Am, those were the days that being an airline pilot was like being a god.....
Quote from: Leading_Edge on April 29, 2013, 02:10:38 AM
I cant even imagine what it was like to fly on the old Pan Am, those were the days that being an airline pilot was like being a god.....
Get a copy of the recent series; it's on DVD now -- pretty accurate. I just can't believe that I remember when the 707s and DC-8s were new.
Quote from: flyboy1 on April 20, 2013, 11:53:04 PM
Don't forget junior pilot wings, decks of cards, grooming kits for layovers and all the cool stuff with airline logos -- sorry, I've collected junior pilot wings since college and use them now as an AE lesson.
I remember when flying on an airliner was something that you dressed up for and were treated royally.
True enough. My experience with Pan Am goes back to the 50's when I flew from Honolulu (my home at the time) to SF and back on board a Boeing 377 Stratocruiser. I was in grade school at the time so it was a real treat. We rode in 1st class as my rich aunt paid the freight for our family.
Quote from: flyboy1 on May 01, 2013, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: Leading_Edge on April 29, 2013, 02:10:38 AM
I cant even imagine what it was like to fly on the old Pan Am, those were the days that being an airline pilot was like being a god.....
Get a copy of the recent series; it's on DVD now -- pretty accurate. I just can't believe that I remember when the 707s and DC-8s were new.
Uhh, not THAT accurate. They had the Navigator sitting at the Flight Engineer's (aka Second Officer) panel.
On the 707 the Flight Engineer is on the right side of the aircraft and the Navigator is on the left.
In the early 60's when the 707's were new there were four guys in the cockpit.
Pilot (Captain), Co-Pilot (First Officer), Flight Engineer (Second Officer) and the Navigator (Third Officer).
As soon as the first INS systems started coming on-line, the Navigators were an endangered species.
My one and only ride on Pan Am was in June 1959, from Frankfurt to Munich, Germany: on my way to my first duty station after the Basic Officers Course. If I remember correctly, the aircraft was a DC-7C.
Phil: as an additional bit of trivia, as of my Space A trip to Korea in Sept, 1996, the C-5 didn't carry a navigator.
Quote from: bosshawk on May 02, 2013, 03:26:18 AM
Phil: as an additional bit of trivia, as of my Space A trip to Korea in Sept, 1996, the C-5 didn't carry a navigator.
Oh, you had a "Navigator". It was an Navigator-in-a-box, aka Carosel Mk IV INS!
Oh, yes, I realize that: in fact, triply redundant. It also got us there in one piece. I got to ride in the former Navigator's seat for the landings and takeoffs. Wierd to realize that the cockpit was 75 feet above the runway when we flared. We had INS in our later model Mohawks: never got to fly one.
The World Port (Pan AM) Terminal at JFK is now listed as an "endangered historic site by the NTHP:
http://www.preservationnation.org/issues/11-most-endangered/locations/worldport-terminal.html (http://www.preservationnation.org/issues/11-most-endangered/locations/worldport-terminal.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldport_(Pan_Am) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldport_(Pan_Am))
(http://www.everythingpanam.com/images/1980s%20Worldport%20from%20above%20blk&wht.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o4nqvo_ZF5g/TBo16XZQDFI/AAAAAAAAAws/dTLGZ-Ax_OU/s1600/PAN+AM+WORLDPORT+ZODIAC+SCREEN.jpg)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/flypanam/ngy8BmQwBKBY9y8TmrelYg1OUnCcYUhYYPHH8LjXahKdw7FEWS2B1KWHDXlc/worldport.jpg.scaled.1000.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1371666252&Signature=9NpNgvNvqUMx%2BCWT1Vx5wbiDpro%3D)
(http://www.brandlandusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/scan20001.jpg)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj3gsgOs6m1qgpcw5o1_1280.jpg)
(http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/224/071/224071376_640.jpg)
Economy class seating in a 1970 Pan Am 747:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2da5dce3ad142a2679fba19d7b143a9d/tumblr_mt2myeQ9Qz1ruu90ro1_500.png)
http://midcenturymodernfreak.tumblr.com/post/61211969616/c-1970-economy-class-seating-on-a-pan-am-747-via (http://midcenturymodernfreak.tumblr.com/post/61211969616/c-1970-economy-class-seating-on-a-pan-am-747-via)
Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA) used to have a $60 round trip from LAX to SFO. Meanwhile, Pan-Am had a few flights that came in from foreign countries, landed at LAX, continuing to SFO.
PAA often had empty seats. So they sold them as domestic from LAX to SFO at a bargain rate. I think they were $20. Or....first class for $30, same as PSA economy.
Pretty popular for those who knew about it - and we kept it quiet.
Quote from: Eclipse on September 14, 2013, 07:40:44 PM
Economy class seating in a 1970 Pan Am 747:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2da5dce3ad142a2679fba19d7b143a9d/tumblr_mt2myeQ9Qz1ruu90ro1_500.png)
http://midcenturymodernfreak.tumblr.com/post/61211969616/c-1970-economy-class-seating-on-a-pan-am-747-via (http://midcenturymodernfreak.tumblr.com/post/61211969616/c-1970-economy-class-seating-on-a-pan-am-747-via)
How timely, I just flew to DC a couple of weeks ago in coach; I would have loved to of had this much room. I was then fortunate enough to sneak into the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum just before the shutdown and really enjoyed looking at their Pan AM & Airlines display. If only air travel were that fun again.
Ah...back when people dressed up to fly.
Quote from: HeadHunter06 on October 11, 2013, 03:55:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on September 14, 2013, 07:40:44 PM
Economy class seating in a 1970 Pan Am 747:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2da5dce3ad142a2679fba19d7b143a9d/tumblr_mt2myeQ9Qz1ruu90ro1_500.png)
http://midcenturymodernfreak.tumblr.com/post/61211969616/c-1970-economy-class-seating-on-a-pan-am-747-via (http://midcenturymodernfreak.tumblr.com/post/61211969616/c-1970-economy-class-seating-on-a-pan-am-747-via)
How timely, I just flew to DC a couple of weeks ago in coach; I would have loved to of had this much room. I was then fortunate enough to sneak into the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum just before the shutdown and really enjoyed looking at their Pan AM & Airlines display. If only air travel were that fun again.
What really impressed me on the first 747's was that they had a piano lounge in both first class and coach
Pan Am flies again
http://www.mpkelley.com/pan-am-flies-again (http://www.mpkelley.com/pan-am-flies-again)
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/5313aafbe4b06c7ef09c62c1/t/53543851e4b0b045e6883ea7/1398028372769/?format=1000w)
"In an attempt to share this legacy with the world, I worked with Anthony Toth, one of the world's foremost experts on aviation history, to bring Pan Am back to life in 2014. This is the story of Pan Am Flight 120, from Los Angeles International (LAX) to London Heathrow (LHR) on a Boeing 747-200, Clipper Gem Of The Ocean."
http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/07/05/the-guy-who-built-a-1970s-pan-am-airplane-in-his-garage/ (http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/07/05/the-guy-who-built-a-1970s-pan-am-airplane-in-his-garage/)
(http://www.insidesocal.com/aviation/files/2013/07/panam1-L.jpg)
(http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/www.messynessychic.com/static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/1000x615xpanamreplica1.jpg.pagespeed.ic.qkZ0wyyIMb.jpg)
http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130221/redondo-beach-mans-lifelike-model-recreates-pan-am-747-in-city-of-industry-warehouse (http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130221/redondo-beach-mans-lifelike-model-recreates-pan-am-747-in-city-of-industry-warehouse)
Pan Am shut down in 1991. That was a class outfit. Thank you for sharing. 8)
Quote from: Private Investigator on November 26, 2014, 08:26:16 AM
Pan Am shut down in 1991. That was a class outfit. Thank you for sharing. 8)
Pan Am is alive and well, as a railroad!
Several years ago the owner of Guilford Transportation Systems brought the rights to the name and the trademarks for the logos.
He then changed the name of his railroad to Pan Am Railways. This railroad operates in the Northeast up around Boston.
Quote from: PHall on November 26, 2014, 05:51:45 PM
Quote from: Private Investigator on November 26, 2014, 08:26:16 AM
Pan Am shut down in 1991. That was a class outfit. Thank you for sharing. 8)
Pan Am is alive and well, as a railroad!
Several years ago the owner of Guilford Transportation Systems brought the rights to the name and the trademarks for the logos.
He then changed the name of his railroad to Pan Am Railways. This railroad operates in the Northeast up around Boston.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Pan_am_railways_603.jpg)
That is interesting. Thanks for sharing. 8)
Don't forget the food was really good in those days with real silverware.. Geeeesh, I miss those days.
Quote from: AirAux on December 10, 2014, 03:03:50 PM
Don't forget the food was really good in those days with real silverware.. Geeeesh, I miss those days.
I ended up with some of that silverware a year or so ago.
Quote from: JC004 on December 10, 2014, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: AirAux on December 10, 2014, 03:03:50 PM
Don't forget the food was really good in those days with real silverware.. Geeeesh, I miss those days.
I ended up with some of that silverware a year or so ago.
I was flying from Chicago to Japan 3 years ago. The in-flight meals had metal spoons, forks, and butter knives for all three sections of passengers. I was shocked.
In fact, whenever I fly internationally, I carry my titanium spork for use on the aircraft. No one has had a problem with it. After I am done, I wipe it off and stow it
I'm surprised you can get it through TSA.
This most recent flight to the Great White North was the first time my knees were honestly up in the
back of the guy in front of me.
ERJ 145:
(http://www.embraercommercialaviation.com/PublishingImages/ERJ135/ERJ_Interior.jpg)
I have no idea what these people are so happy about.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 10, 2014, 05:17:30 PM
...
I have no idea what these people are so happy about.
They are paid.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 10, 2014, 05:17:30 PM
I have no idea what these people are so happy about.
They are paid models.
I've just flown on one of those this past weekend from Houston to Pittsburgh. 2 and a half hours of sitting in my friendly neighbor's laps! Also, have you noticed that people today bring to the cabin all their worldly belongings?
???
Quote from: MacGruff on December 10, 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 10, 2014, 05:17:30 PM
I have no idea what these people are so happy about.
They are paid models.
I've just flown on one of those this past weekend from Houston to Pittsburgh. 2 and a half hours of sitting in my friendly neighbor's laps! Also, have you noticed that people today bring to the cabin all their worldly belongings?
???
Yeah, it's ridiculous, all to save a couple bucks or couple minutes at baggage.
Granted when I go someone else is normally paying the fees, but that doesn't explain people
on SouthWest who can check bags for free and still drag everything on the plane.
Give me curbside check every time, please. $2 and a smile and you're walking right past
a 2-snake line inside towards Precheck.
On this 145, though, even my tactical purse was tight in the overhead. I've gotten in the habit
of pulling the drive out of my notebook and checking it in my luggage, with just a small
tac purse with a tablet and some other "stuck in the airport" essentials. This last couple trips,
though, I've had too much weight in the checked bag to add the computer.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 10, 2014, 05:17:30 PM
I'm surprised you can get it through TSA.
This most recent flight to the Great White North was the first time my knees were honestly up in the
back of the guy in front of me.
ERJ 145:
(http://www.embraercommercialaviation.com/PublishingImages/ERJ135/ERJ_Interior.jpg)
I have no idea what these people are so happy about.
Lots of 145s out of here...
I don't mind them, always get the single-seat by myself, don't have to worry about a neighbour.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 10, 2014, 05:17:30 PM
I'm surprised you can get it through TSA.
Forks are kind of a grey area. They are sharp and pointy, which in general are prohibited. However, they are not specifically mentioned on the prohibited item list. Spoons and butter knives (specifically on the exempt list) are allowed. Then if you combine that spoon and fork for a spork, it gets really grey. TSA just let it go.
http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/prohibited-items (http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/prohibited-items)
Although, now I am told fork is allowed and specifically stated on the TSA app, but cannot really say for sure since I do not have the app.
Quote from: AirAux on December 10, 2014, 03:03:50 PM
Don't forget the food was really good in those days with real silverware.. Geeeesh, I miss those days.
... and having a cigarette after the meal. ::)
Quote from: LSThiker on December 10, 2014, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: JC004 on December 10, 2014, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: AirAux on December 10, 2014, 03:03:50 PM
Don't forget the food was really good in those days with real silverware.. Geeeesh, I miss those days.
I ended up with some of that silverware a year or so ago.
I was flying from Chicago to Japan 3 years ago. The in-flight meals had metal spoons, forks, and butter knives for all three sections of passengers. I was shocked.
In fact, whenever I fly internationally, I carry my titanium spork for use on the aircraft. No one has had a problem with it. After I am done, I wipe it off and stow it
I'm cheaper then you, I use the plastic sporks that I throw away after the meal and TSA has no problem with at all!
It's a little habit I picked up from flying as a AMC aircrewmember for almost 30 years.
Quote from: PHall on December 11, 2014, 04:04:05 PM
Quote from: LSThiker on December 10, 2014, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: JC004 on December 10, 2014, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: AirAux on December 10, 2014, 03:03:50 PM
Don't forget the food was really good in those days with real silverware.. Geeeesh, I miss those days.
I ended up with some of that silverware a year or so ago.
I was flying from Chicago to Japan 3 years ago. The in-flight meals had metal spoons, forks, and butter knives for all three sections of passengers. I was shocked.
In fact, whenever I fly internationally, I carry my titanium spork for use on the aircraft. No one has had a problem with it. After I am done, I wipe it off and stow it
I'm cheaper then you, I use the plastic sporks that I throw away after the meal and TSA has no problem with at all!
It's a little habit I picked up from flying as a AMC aircrewmember for almost 30 years.
Cut my life into pizzas, this is my plastic spork.
Quote from: Private Investigator on December 11, 2014, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: AirAux on December 10, 2014, 03:03:50 PM
Don't forget the food was really good in those days with real silverware.. Geeeesh, I miss those days.
... and having a cigarette after the meal. ::)
The cigarette is one thing I don't miss. Glad those days are behind us.