Cloth Squadron Command Badge

[arajca]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

And if and when CAP declines to provide said specs, Vanguard takes its best guess, which is how we end up with what we got. And the fault is STILL CAP's.

By that same logic, those who are ignorant of the law, the law favors, right? If I am ignorant of one of the hundreds of thousands of lines in the tax code and I deduct something that I shouldn't have, who does the judicial system favor? Me? No. They side with the government because the LAW IS THERE FOR ANYONE TO READ. By the same token, if VG doesn't get the material/pattern/template they need, CAP can claim ignorance, and VG gets the blame. BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ASK.

Laywered.

However, if VG did ask and CAP declines to provide the specs, is VG to blame for the crappy product?

Yes, because they can decline to provide a "Crappy product". Free market and all.

However, VG is required to carry ALL CAP insignia as part of the single supplier contract. The free market does not apply.

In theory, someone at CAP NHQ should be doing quality control checks on VG insignia. Presumably, the embroidered command badge passed that check, but I wouldn't guarantee someone is doing QC. So we get what we get.

[Garibaldi]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

And if and when CAP declines to provide said specs, Vanguard takes its best guess, which is how we end up with what we got. And the fault is STILL CAP's.

By that same logic, those who are ignorant of the law, the law favors, right? If I am ignorant of one of the hundreds of thousands of lines in the tax code and I deduct something that I shouldn't have, who does the judicial system favor? Me? No. They side with the government because the LAW IS THERE FOR ANYONE TO READ. By the same token, if VG doesn't get the material/pattern/template they need, CAP can claim ignorance, and VG gets the blame. BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ASK.

Laywered.

However, if VG did ask and CAP declines to provide the specs, is VG to blame for the crappy product?

Yes, because they can decline to provide a "Crappy product". Free market and all.

However, VG is required to carry ALL CAP insignia as part of the single supplier contract. The free market does not apply.

In theory, someone at CAP NHQ should be doing quality control checks on VG insignia. Presumably, the embroidered command badge passed that check, but I wouldn't guarantee someone is doing QC. So we get what we get.

Agreed. What were we fighting about again? 

[arajca]

Agreed. What were we fighting about again? 

Who's to blame for the crappy cloth Commander's badge.

[Luis R. Ramos]

And now, contenders, prepare for round 10 in this seemingly non-ending fight for the World Championship blah blah blah...

:angel:

[a2capt]

Spec or no spec, it's not like Vanguard hasn't seen these types of products before. Someone burning just a few braincells over it should come to the conclusion that "this" does not resemble much of anything and perhaps we should take the initiative and make the customer a better product so that the contractor will see that we more than value our business relationship.

[Garibaldi]

I'm not sure why I entered the argument, except that I will probably source my material elsewhere. I don't really have a dog in this fight since I will never, EVER, be a squadron commander.

[PHall]

Spec or no spec, it's not like Vanguard hasn't seen these types of products before. Someone burning just a few braincells over it should come to the conclusion that "this" does not resemble much of anything and perhaps we should take the initiative and make the customer a better product so that the contractor will see that we more than value our business relationship.

Problem is that Vanguard has either brought or run out of business just about all of their competators.
So if CAP decided to go somewhere else, where would that be?
Vanguard has us over a barrel and they know it.

[supertigerCH]

"I don't really have a dog in this fight since I will never, EVER, be a squadron commander."


NCO is the way to go!

[Eclipse]

Problem is that Vanguard has either brought or run out of business just about all of their competators.
So if CAP decided to go somewhere else, where would that be?
Vanguard has us over a barrel and they know it.

There's about eleventy twelveteen vendors who can make insignia, especially if US manufacturers are not a requirement.

[Private Investigator]

"I don't really have a dog in this fight since I will never, EVER, be a squadron commander."


NCO is the way to go!

Famous last words indeed.

Next meeting somebody will say, "can you hold this" as they pass you the Squadron flag and then we all run out the back door. 

[Garibaldi]

"I don't really have a dog in this fight since I will never, EVER, be a squadron commander."


NCO is the way to go!

Famous last words indeed.

Next meeting somebody will say, "can you hold this" as they pass you the Squadron flag and then we all run out the back door. 

They are all well aware that if they try to hand me command I will be out the door so fast it will bend the space-time continuum. Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey will not apply. No one wants me in charge. They'd rather turn it over to Kim Il Sun, or whatever that little demagogue's name is.

[jimmydeanno]

Really, ANYONE could be our supplier.  Vanguard is convenient because they also make the insignia.  But the reality is that we could put it out to bid and Amazon, or LL Bean, or Walmart could bid.  It's really just another SKU number to them.  The catch though, is that CAP would have to supply them with specs and such so they could source them from somewhere.  It'd just be another item in their long list of items that they keep in stock. 

The specs are what change the game, because Vanguard has a history of making uniform items, they have a general idea of what is expected.  But with a book of specs for a supplier, it just becomes a logistics game, and there are plenty of company's that are far better at logistics.

[Shuman 14]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

And if and when CAP declines to provide said specs, Vanguard takes its best guess, which is how we end up with what we got. And the fault is STILL CAP's.

I tried my hand at digitizing. It's not like decal creation. After you get the outline put in (scanned, drawn, imported, whatever) the digitizer then has to determine what stitch pattern, count, angle, etc for each distinct part of the design. Also, the material the design is being embroidered on plays a role as to the stitch count. Then, the design needs to be test run, ideally on the same type of machine the embroiderer will be using, and checked against the spec, if one exists. Rinse, lather, repeat until the design meets spec.

Keep in mind, the person who 'knows' what the end result should look like may 'see' the proper end result, even if no one else does. Kind of like an author proof-reading their own work.

And yet places like The Tiger Shop outside of Kadena AB, Japan have no trouble at all producing quality work from simple drawings.
Interesting...

Or any local embroidery shop near any major military installation.

[Private Investigator]

And yet places like The Tiger Shop outside of Kadena AB, Japan have no trouble at all producing quality work from simple drawings.
Interesting...

For those not familiar with the Tiger Shop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGm_YTwYhs

Or Kadena AB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn27REibQ_E

Enjoy my friends 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm not sure why I entered the argument, except that I will probably source my material elsewhere. I don't really have a dog in this fight since I will never, EVER, be a squadron commander.

The same for me.  I have been a Deputy CC, but they don't make a badge for that.

[PHall]

I'm not sure why I entered the argument, except that I will probably source my material elsewhere. I don't really have a dog in this fight since I will never, EVER, be a squadron commander.

The same for me.  I have been a Deputy CC, but they don't make a badge for that.

But they do, it's blue on blue...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm not sure why I entered the argument, except that I will probably source my material elsewhere. I don't really have a dog in this fight since I will never, EVER, be a squadron commander.

The same for me.  I have been a Deputy CC, but they don't make a badge for that.

But they do, it's blue on blue...

Lo-viz?

[PHall]

I'm not sure why I entered the argument, except that I will probably source my material elsewhere. I don't really have a dog in this fight since I will never, EVER, be a squadron commander.

The same for me.  I have been a Deputy CC, but they don't make a badge for that.

But they do, it's blue on blue...

Lo-viz?

No-viz.

[Papabird]

 Well, the AF Commander's Badge looks pretty neat & clean
http://www.vanguardmil.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_289_290_1834&products_id=17387

But the CAP version (even the image they have on the web) is pretty pathetic.
http://www.vanguardmil.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_2513_412_414&products_id=14420

I don't care why as much, as I care about what to do about it.  Because one has MilSpec and the other has NoSpec, isn't a good enough answer.  For me at least.
(EDIT) - Maybe this one reason we as an organization can't look professional, even when we try.

[Storm Chaser]

We really need a redesign of the CAP Commander's Badge.