Col Mary Feik Scholarship only for females?

[jeders]

So you're all for lowered standards of performance for females in this case?

No, I'm increasing access in a way which doesn't cost CAP a penny. I'm for helping an under-served populace in a way which doesn't make it any harder for anyone else. You seem to want to needlessly restrict access to ensure that females remain an under-served minority in aviation. I hope and am fairly certain that that's not the case, but that is how you come across.

Remember, these scholarships are not just for CAP flight academies. They are for any flight training.

[THRAWN]

So you're all for lowered standards of performance for females in this case?

No, I'm increasing access in a way which doesn't cost CAP a penny. I'm for helping an under-served populace in a way which doesn't make it any harder for anyone else. You seem to want to needlessly restrict access to ensure that females remain an under-served minority in aviation. I hope and am fairly certain that that's not the case, but that is how you come across.

Remember, these scholarships are not just for CAP flight academies. They are for any flight training.

Thats an insulting insinuation that you know is not true. It makes no difference what it is used for. Basing qualifications on gender is discriminatory. If it was the opposite, CAP sure as shootin wouldnt be featuring it on their website or admimistering the scholarship.

[LSThiker]

What I find interesting is that there was no response in CAP's continued support of the Sally Ride Science Festival, which is only open to female students.

Most people jump on the "women are underrepresented in the STEM fields", which is not true any more except for Engineering and Computer Science.  Women make up 60% of all bachelor degrees conferred today with nearly 60% of biology BS degrees going to women.  They make up 45% of Math and Physical Sciences degrees.  85% of Health Professions are women and 77% of psychology majors are women.  How many times do you hear people making fun of male nurses, but there is not a push to increase male nurses?  In addition, females now account for more Doctorate Degrees.  In the Health Sciences, 70% are women and Biological Sciences at 51%.  Social and behavioral sciences is at 60% women. 

Although, there are still some doctorate degrees where men dominate but women dominate at bachelor level.  For example, physics and math.


Although not STEM, women dominate in Public Administration (social work, public policy, etc) at 82% and Education at 79%.

Of course, boys are less likely to graduate from high school than girls.  These numbers seem to vary depending which study you look at.  But, according to NCES, 84% of females will graduate high school and 77% of males in 2010.

Also, looking at GPAs, males continue to have lower GPAs than females in high school:

Male vs Female GPA
English:  3.12 vs 3.38
Math:  3.04 vs 3.15
Social Science:  3.27 vs 3.39
Science:  3.11 vs 3.24
Overall:  3.07 vs 3.24

I would like to point out that a 50%/50% is not necessarily good or bad.  The world does not necessarily need to be 50/50.  On the other hand, continued institutional gender discrimination (whether it is male or female) is bad.  Nevertheless, may be we as a society need to stop pushing a 50/50 split and realize that boys and girls learn differently and have different interests.   


http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012/
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/09/14/doctorates
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2014/2014391.pdf
https://www.act.org/research/researchers/briefs/pdf/2014-12.pdf

[THRAWN]

Dont bring facts and statistics into this.

[Ned]

[Col Lee, pardon me if I'm not understanding you correctly here, but as "a legal kind of guy," you're "not seeing" discrimination with the Feik scholarship?

Your confusion is understandable.  I was not as clear as I could have been.  What I am not seeing is any sort of improper discrimination or a violation of CAP regulations or policy.

I can only agree that on a superficial level, the Feik Flight Scholarship is not available to male cadets.  My point was that is not improper for the donor to place those restrictions on the funds.  Male and female cadets can still apply for all the scholarships that are available under the traditional system.  Only the new, additional monies are restricted by the donor.

I suspect that we agree that discrimination, per se, is not improper even in CAP.  Heck, we do it all the time.  We discriminate against young people based solely on age (they can't join until they are 12 or in a middle school program, nor remain after their 21st birthday.)  We discriminate against cadets who are not maintaining a satisfactory academic record in school.  We discriminate against members who violate regulations or endanger other members.  And so on.

For the purposes of this discussion, no cadet is being deprived of anything based on gender.  Exactly the same number of male -eligible scholarships that were available before the donor provided the restricted funds are still there.  Not a nickel less.  If the donor withdraws the restricted funds or we somehow rejected them, the results would be the same. 


As others have pointed out, restricted scholarships are extremely common in education, including prestigious public institutions. 

Here is one from my alma mater, the University of California at Irvine, that is restricted to persons of Jewish Heritage.  Reasonable minds can certainly differ as to the wisdom of these kinds of things, but they are not improper or illegal.

As to Spam's "intended-to-be-provocative race question," of course it was intended to be provocative; he wanted to provoke an answer--one which you completely dodged.  I have absolutely no doubt that if the donors you suggested offered flight scholarship money, with the provision that only cadets of their race receive it, that CAP would take the money...  But that wasn't the question, and you know it.  If you are the "straight shooter" people here believe you to be, please acknowledge here, in this forum, that we all know there are some groups who are encouraged to discriminate in favor of their own and others who are prohibited.  We can leave the "who's" and "why's" for a different discussion.

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking here.  But if you are suggesting that there may be some groups who hypothetically could offer scholarships with restrictions that we would consider improper, I can only agree.  Groups that advocate odious philosophies or unlawful actions would certainly be declined.

But that is not even remotely close to what happened here.  These were additional funds offered in honor of an acknowledged aerospace pioneer.

Thank you for your work with our cadets.

Ned Lee

On a side note, let us all be sure we are continuing the discussion in a calm, respectful way.  I think there were something like five new posts while I was drafting this one, and some of them seem to have been made in haste.

[jeders]

Basing qualifications on gender is discriminatory.

Yes it is, so what? I discriminate every single day and so do you. I choose Ford over Chevy, I choose Peterbilt over Freightliner, I choose Malt-O-Meal over General Mills (more sugar). We all discriminate all the time, and that's not a bad thing. Discrimination is only bad when it is used to deny something to someone. By discriminating in this case, we are increasing, not decreasing, access; meaning that the discrimination is good.

[Garibaldi]

Hopping on the devil's advocate horse for a moment.

I don't honestly see what the big deal is. Sure, it's a "restrictive" scholarship, but not one that encompasses all aspects of CAP. It's not a CAP scholarship, not administered by CAP. It is simply one of the many scholarships available to CAP cadets.

How would it work if an organization came to us with a scholarship for Islamic students interested in ROTC? Or one targeted towards lower-income cadets interested in attending Embry-Riddle?

Perfectly honest opinion here, women have been getting the short end of the stick for centuries, and it's only now, within the last 30 years or so that things are changing. Why shouldn't there be a scholarship set aside for worthy female cadets? Some of the qualifiers in it are a bit restrictive, but let's face it: you have to have qualifiers or the award becomes meaningless.

Jeders has a point, but I disagree with some of it. I don't call having a choice of Ford over Chevy discrimination, but you can use your criteria for choosing one over the other as "your discriminating taste", to quote some 50's ads.

We did have an issue at the end of last year. It was proposed that the female cadets come up with an OTY award for them, but we quashed it as discriminatory towards the males, as we don't have a "male" cadet/NCO/officer OTY award.

[CAPDCCMOM]

So, in the interest of Unicorns and PC compliance. We would never want to have anyone left out. (Please note hint of sarcasm). If I hvae a male Cadet that identifies as a female, then he is allowed to apply for the Feik Scholarship and the "male" scholarships. 

[xray328]

So, in the interest of Unicorns and PC compliance. We would never want to have anyone left out. (Please note hint of sarcasm). If I hvae a male Cadet that identifies as a female, then he is allowed to apply for the Feik Scholarship and the "male" scholarships. 

Now there's an idea [emoji5]

[Garibaldi]

So, in the interest of Unicorns and PC compliance. We would never want to have anyone left out. (Please note hint of sarcasm). If I hvae a male Cadet that identifies as a female, then he is allowed to apply for the Feik Scholarship and the "male" scholarships. 

Unicorns don't exist, ergo your attempt at using that simile are fallacious and seditious. 

[CAPDCCMOM]

On the Job Training is not real either but we still talk about it.

[THRAWN]

Hopping on the devil's advocate horse for a moment.

I don't honestly see what the big deal is. Sure, it's a "restrictive" scholarship, but not one that encompasses all aspects of CAP. It's not a CAP scholarship, not administered by CAP. It is simply one of the many scholarships available to CAP cadets.

How would it work if an organization came to us with a scholarship for Islamic students interested in ROTC? Or one targeted towards lower-income cadets interested in attending Embry-Riddle?

Perfectly honest opinion here, women have been getting the short end of the stick for centuries, and it's only now, within the last 30 years or so that things are changing. Why shouldn't there be a scholarship set aside for worthy female cadets? Some of the qualifiers in it are a bit restrictive, but let's face it: you have to have qualifiers or the award becomes meaningless.

Jeders has a point, but I disagree with some of it. I don't call having a choice of Ford over Chevy discrimination, but you can use your criteria for choosing one over the other as "your discriminating taste", to quote some 50's ads.

We did have an issue at the end of last year. It was proposed that the female cadets come up with an OTY award for them, but we quashed it as discriminatory towards the males, as we don't have a "male" cadet/NCO/officer OTY award.

CAP is administering it and managing the application process. Want to give away a pile of money to a specific demographic? Great. But CAP should not be involved other than to say that the fund exists.

As for the qualifiers, they are less restrictive than the others. Again, that's fine, but don't make it appear as if CAP is endorsing the program.

There are dozens of flight scholarships. If CAP is going to "feature" one like this on their website, why not the others? Let CAP manage and administer the CAP flight scholarship. Let the I Wanna Fly Like a Pteradon Foundation manage and administer their own. If CAP is going to list flight scholarships, then list all of the ones that they can find. Don't limit it just because it features the name of a CAP colonel.

[Ned]

There are dozens of flight scholarships. [ . . . ]  If CAP is going to list flight scholarships, then list all of the ones that they can find. Don't limit it just because it features the name of a CAP colonel.

Great idea!


In fact it is such a good idea, we already do it here on the CP website., including listings for scholarships offered by the Ninety-Nines, AOPA, Girls with Wings, AFROTC, and others.

If anyone knows of other scholarship opportunities for cadets, drop us a line at NHQ and we'll link to it.

Scholarships for our cadets are important.


Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

[THRAWN]

I got this link from an inspector in my FSDO:
https://www.faa.gov/education/grants_and_scholarships/

I did a bit of poking and found that some of the resources here may be right what you're looking for. The best part is that it includes a section on "grants". Free money.

This is one of the links that I found from that site: https://sites.google.com/site/money2fly/youth and it's a big list of youth related scholarships.

[Alaric]

Basing qualifications on gender is discriminatory.

Yes it is, so what? I discriminate every single day and so do you. I choose Ford over Chevy, I choose Peterbilt over Freightliner, I choose Malt-O-Meal over General Mills (more sugar). We all discriminate all the time, and that's not a bad thing. Discrimination is only bad when it is used to deny something to someone. By discriminating in this case, we are increasing, not decreasing, access; meaning that the discrimination is good.

Jeders you are interchanging two of the definitions of discrimination (From the Cambridge Dictionaries Online)



discrimination noun   (WORSE TREATMENT)

› the ​treatment of a ​person or ​particular ​group of ​people ​differently, in a way that is ​worse than the way ​people are usually ​treated: Some ​immigrants were ​victims of discrimination.The ​law made ​racial discrimination in ​employment a ​serious ​crime.She ​claims she is a ​victim of ​age discrimination.

› politics & government Discrimination is also ​prejudice against ​people and a ​refusal to give them ​their ​rights.


discrimination noun   (SEEING A DIFFERENCE)

› the ​ability to ​judge the ​quality of something ​based on ​its ​difference from other, ​similar things: He ​showed discrimination in his ​reading ​habits.
 
(Definition of discrimination from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary © Cambridge University Press)


Choosing a Ford over a Chevy is an example of the 3rd definition; holding women to a different standard than men is an example of the 1st

[Garibaldi]

There are dozens of flight scholarships. [ . . . ]  If CAP is going to list flight scholarships, then list all of the ones that they can find. Don't limit it just because it features the name of a CAP colonel.

Great idea!


In fact it is such a good idea, we already do it here on the CP website., including listings for scholarships offered by the Ninety-Nines, AOPA, Girls with Wings, AFROTC, and others.

If anyone knows of other scholarship opportunities for cadets, drop us a line at NHQ and we'll link to it.

Scholarships for our cadets are important.


Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

I put up a link to some flight scholarships available in Georgia in another thread. Here is it again:

http://www.gbaa.org/scholarships

$40,000 available.

[jeders]

Choosing a Ford over a Chevy is an example of the 3rd definition; holding women to a different standard than men is an example of the 1st

Except that we aren't holding women to a different standard as men. The general flight scholarship which is open to both genders requires a Mitchell Award. The Feik scholarship, which is an entirely different award with an entirely different set of standards and targeted to an entirely different set of individuals does not. Now if the general scholarship required Mitchel for males and Wright Brothers for females, then we would be setting different gender based standards, but that's not the case.

Jeders you are interchanging two of the definitions of discrimination (From the Cambridge Dictionaries Online)

That's exactly the point; people are throwing around the word discrimination as if it is automatically a bad thing. We must all remember that words have meanings and they are important.

[Nuke52]

So, in the interest of Unicorns and PC compliance. We would never want to have anyone left out. (Please note hint of sarcasm). If I hvae a male Cadet that identifies as a female, then he is allowed to apply for the Feik Scholarship and the "male" scholarships. 

Now that right there is BRILLIANT!  You're going to give the lefty crowd on here fits!

[CAPDCCMOM]

^^^^ Would I try to get leftist brains to explode ... No I am just trying to balance the field a little...in my own unique way

[Thonawit]

CAPDCCMOM - I have been told on numerous occasions that I am so conservative that I make Rush Limbaugh look liberal...

That being said, We have a Cadet in our squadron who is male and identifies as female in our squadron. Is said Cadet eligible for the Feik Scholarship? Poses an interesting question that most don't want to touch with a 10' pole.

What is CAP policy about people who identify as the opposite sex wanting to apply for Scholarships for the sex they identify with?