Florida Encampment Staff

[Ned]

  To call a cadet "Basic" is in fact demoting him for the time he is at encampment and against CAP Reg's.

If "basic" were a grade, I'd have to agree with you. 

But it isn't of course.  It is simply describing their role at encampment.  To suggest that that is somehow against regulations is just silly.

Are you suggesting I cannot address a flight commander by their title, either?

As in "Hey, flight commander, do you have a minute to go over the schedule with me?"

If a cadet MSgt is serving as a first sergeant, should I be disciplined for uttering the phrase "First Sergeant, come here please?"

I guess we could never call anyone a "flight sergeant" without risk of a 2b.


Sigh.

(And BTW, we do call them "cadets" as well when there is no risk of ambiguity or confusion.  Imagine that!)

The difference between "basic" and things like "smack" or "doolie" is that those terms are disrespectful and pejorative.  "Basic" was selected precisely because it is neither of those things.

But I bet you really knew that.  But as a lawyer I enjoy specious arguments as much as the next guy.

Ned Lee

[AirAux]

Well, last time I checked, Cadet Airman BASIC is a grade, so, I have a hard time agreeing with your reasoning.. At least according to my CAPM 52-16..

[HGjunkie]

Figure 2-3. Abbreviations for Cadet Grades.
Cadet Airman Basic C/AB                                Cadet Second Lieutenant C/2d Lt
Cadet Airman C/Amn                                     Cadet First Lieutenant C/1st Lt
Cadet Airman First Class C/A1C                    Cadet Captain C/Capt
Cadet Senior Airman C/SrA                           Cadet Major C/Maj
Cadet Staff Sergeant C/SSgt                        Cadet Lieutenant Colonel C/Lt Col
Cadet Technical Sergeant C/TSgt                 Cadet Colonel C/Col
Cadet Master Sergeant C/MSgt
Cadet Senior Master Sergeant C/SMSgt
Cadet Chief Master Sergeant C/CMSgt

Well, last time I checked, Cadet Airman BASIC is a grade, so, I have a hard time agreeing with your reasoning.. At least according to my CAPM 52-16..

Seems right.

[Ned]

Well, last time I checked, Cadet Airman BASIC is a grade, so, I have a hard time agreeing with your reasoning.. At least according to my CAPM 52-16..

Nice sharpshooting there, son.  Now try to respond to the actual reasoning and explain why "doolie", "smack," or "plebe" are appropriate and respectful forms of address.

And not inconsistent with our Core Value of Respect.

(I'll stand by . . . )

In the meantime, let me respond to the off-topic point:


Yes, "Cadet airman basic" is a grade.  (Of course, they are not found at encampment which requires at least a Curry to attend.) 

But "basic" standing alone is not a grade, and no more incorrect than using a phrase like "soldiers, sailors, and airmen."  When presidents use that phrase, they are describing functional catagories of folks, and not delivering a deliberate insult to USAF personnel in the grade of E-4 and above.

Thus I agree that addressing any cadet at encampment by the phrase "Cadet Airman Basic" would be incorrect.  (Assuming compliance with the regulation and no actual C/ABs are present.)


But I have never heard anyone at a CAWG encampment address a cadets as a "cadet airmen basics".  If for no other reason than that is a whole lot of syllables.

And there is no grade in CAP that is addressed by the term "basic" in any event.  The term of address for a C/AB is "airman."  (Look it up.)

To say that a cadet airman is insulted by referring them to as a "basic" makes as much sense as them taking offense if I ask to speak with them privately.

"Sir, I am not a private!  I am insulted by the comparison to a US Army soldier." 

But since this is a thread about Florida, let's try to stay on topic.

Please explain how calling a cadet at encampment a "doolie" complies with our Core Values, given the derivation of the term.

[FlyTiger77]

...one of the least insulting names they will be called at encampment..  If you disagree, you haven't been really involved in Basic Encampments..

What, exactly, are the more insulting names your cadets are being called at their basic encampment? What specific training objective(s) is/are being met by insulting 12-18 year old young people?

I am still curious as to what even more insulting names are being used.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Sir, (Ned) are the cadets refered to as "basic Smith" or do you mean as a term in general?

[davidsinn]

Sir, (Ned) are the cadets refered to as "basic Smith" or do you mean as a term in general?

I can't speak for the Colonel but what I have seen and done is this:

If I have C/Amn Smith and C/A1C Jones I call them by Airmen Smith and Jones. "Amn Smith and Jones go stand over with that group of basics please."

[Eclipse]

Well, last time I checked, Cadet Airman BASIC is a grade, so, I have a hard time agreeing with your reasoning.. At least according to my CAPM 52-16..

You're going to hurt yourself stretching this hard...

"Doolie" is insulting and meant to put a cadet in their "place".  It is borderline hazing.

"Basic Cadet" is a category, not a grade, and does not suffer from the above.

[PHall]

Sir, (Ned) are the cadets refered to as "basic Smith" or do you mean as a term in general?

They are addressed as "Cadet Smith".  Basics are what we call the cadets who are at the encampment for the first time.
It is a category. The other categories are Line Staff, Support Staff and Seniors.

[Slim]

Sir, (Ned) are the cadets refered to as "basic Smith" or do you mean as a term in general?

They are addressed as "Cadet Smith".  Basics are what we call the cadets who are at the encampment for the first time.
It is a category. The other categories are Line Staff, Support Staff and Seniors.

For clarification, think of it this way....

Encampment commander walks out of his office and asks the training section where his troops are:

"Sir, CLS is on the O course, Rocketry is in the classroom, and the basics are at the firing range." 

Think of the scene in stripes where CPT Stillman asks his clerk where his people are, and the clerk rattles off the locations of his three platoons.  Sgt Hulka wasn't the only one on the O course, he meant Sgt Hulka's platoon.

We use the same type of terminology as CAWG, though I don't know that we got it from them as we've been using it at least 27 years.  It's a description, not an identifier or grade, if you will.  You wouldn't say "Basic Snuffy, who is your flight commander?"  But you could say "Someone go ask that group of basics where they're supposed to be."

[DBlair]

So, who else is applying for FLWG Winter Encampment Staff?

I myself am throwing around the idea.

[HGjunkie]

So, who else is applying for FLWG Winter Encampment Staff?

I myself am throwing around the idea.

Me!

[DakRadz]

It's a description, not an identifier or grade, if you will.  You wouldn't say "Basic Snuffy, who is your flight commander?"  But you could say "Someone go ask that group of basics where they're supposed to be."

BAM.

This is it.
The description "basic" was introduced to GAWG this year, I believe. Trying to clean up encampment, avoid hazing, etc.
I was addressed by staff cadets as either Chief or Radz*.
"Radz, you're second element leader."
"Chief Radz is going to show you how to mop." (Only Chief when I got to demonstrate something  )
Actually, I used the term basic to describe myself more than staff used it. Essentially making sure the 12 year old C/Snuffy isn't scared that a C/CMSgt is in the same room as a first time encampment attendee.
"Calm down Snuffy, I'm a basic cadet here just like you. Please stop calling me sir. It's Radz, and I don't bite."

[WrightOne]

I know the deadline has just passed but I have been trying all day to upload my application (Sr.) and my daughters......... Anyone have problems? I have made sure the files are named correctly, what else can I try?
We did send in trouble inquiries, so I am hoping that covers that but any help now would be appreciated!!!

[BillB]

Email the Encampment Commander and explain that you're unable to upload the application and will snail mail it. I saw his phone number and mailing address somewhere, but you might ask him for the address to mail the applicaions to. His email is listed on the Winter encampment web page.

[Capt Ford]

So, who else is applying for FLWG Winter Encampment Staff?

I myself am throwing around the idea.

I applied for Flight TACO as a primary; Squadron TACO and Administrative Officer as secondaries, which I thought there was only a Flight TACO, but Squadron TACO was in the application so I thought why not.

Does anyone by any chance know when they will be posting the Senior staff roster for the winter encampment?

[caphornbuckle]

Ok...I don't know if this was answered or not but I am curious...what do you call your cadets who are first time attendees at an encampment to distinguish them from the cadet staff when referring to them in general?  Could the term "Trainee" be acceptable?

[AirAux]

Well, since nobody likes the term "Doolies", let's try "Zoomies".  The Zoomie News is the news of the day with the USAFA Graduate Association, so it can't be all bad, right??

[BillB]

Does that mean the Florida Encampment daily newsletter will be changed from "Daily Doolie" to "Daily Zoomie"? "Daily Doolie" has been in use for 60 years

[Eclipse]

Ok...I don't know if this was answered or not but I am curious...what do you call your cadets who are first time attendees at an encampment to distinguish them from the cadet staff when referring to them in general?  Could the term "Trainee" be acceptable?

Basic...

...cadets...

Or simply "cadets".

"Trainees" isn't necessarily appropriate, either as many are far beyond "trainee" status, and all come into the encampment with at least their Curry.