Can a CAP NCO command a unit?

[Trung Si Ma]

This came up in another context - Is there an official (cite-able) prohibition to a CAP NCO commanding a unit?

To further muddy the waters - what if said NCO has a GRW; has a Crossfield; been a cadet officer; been an MC (in the OLLLLD days); and in a past CAP life has already commanded several units (multiple squadrons and groups)?

If you're giving an opinion, please say so; if you're quoting a reg, please give a cite.

Don

[DeputyDog]

There is no regulation that prohibits it.

CAPR 35-5, Section C, Paragraph 13 (c) and (d) states that you may be promoted concurrent with an appointment to squadron or group command, but doesn't demand that you must be.

CAPR 35-5, Section C, Paragraph (a) and (b) does state that promotion is concurrent with the appointment to wing or region command.

So a NCO can command a squadron or group, but not a wing or a region.

[BillB]

:::::waiting for a MSgt to be promoted to Colonel as Wing CC:::::::

[lordmonar]

I'll say there is no regulation to prohibit it....but it is against the spirit of the regulations.....else why would they give squadron commanders immediat promotion to 1st Lt and a fast track to Capt?

The intent is, IMHO, that squadrons should be commander by Capts and never by anyone lower than 1st Lt.

[MIKE]

I guess it's a myth that unit commanders have to be at least 21, and officers.  I had thought there was an age restriction in there somewhere.

[Al Sayre]

There is at least one FO type Squadron Commander who posts on this board...

[Eclipse]

Technically a brand-new, 18 year old SMWOG grade could be a wing commander.

The regulations regarding requirements say right in them they are discretionary to the region cc, so if no Majors w/ Level 5 are available, they can start drilling down the list.

I suppose once they were appointed to a Wing /CC job they would be an 18 yro COL, first.   

[Cecil DP]

If anyone remembers COL Julie Goldman who commanded MAWG and NER in the 60's and 70's. He was recruited into CAP to be the Wing Commander. As he told me he had no respect for CAP, because they had a bad reputation and didn't pay their bills. One day a plane landed at his FBO and the NER Commander and an Air Force General got out. The Region Commander introduced Col Goldman to the National Commander as "The new Massachusetts Wing Commander" and he didn't become a member until a week later.

[ammotrucker]

Technically a brand-new, 18 year old SMWOG grade could be a wing commander.

The regulations regarding requirements say right in them they are discretionary to the region cc, so if no Majors w/ Level 5 are available, they can start drilling down the list.

I suppose once they were appointed to a Wing /CC job they would be an 18 yro COL, first.   

While discrestionary how can you justify the rest of the REG>
CIVIL AIR PATROL CAP REGULATION 35-9 (E)
SECTION B – WING COMMANDER SELECTION PROCESS
3. These suggested guidelines are designed to assist region commanders in carrying out this responsibility in a timely, judicious manner and to standardize the selection process. The final decision concerning selection still rests with the region commander concerned. A suggested timeline is shown in figure 1.
4. Minimum qualifications for consideration as wing commander are:
a. Hold at least the CAP grade of major.
b. Completed Level IV of the Senior Member Training Program.
c. Three years command and staff experience at any level within a wing.
d. Budget and asset acquisition knowledge gained within or outside CAP.
e. Five years supervisory experience gained within or outside CAP.
f. Five years total CAP membership with no less than three continuous years of service prior to appointment.
g. Prior to appointment as wing commander, individual must complete a successful fingerprint rescreening.

[Eclipse]

I'm not sure what you are asking.

It says right in your quote that that those are only suggested guidelines.

[ammotrucker]

I'm not sure what you are asking.

It says right in your quote that that those are only suggested guidelines.

Okay, If a region commander would do that and place an 18 yo SM in a position of Wing Commander.  I give him all the right to do so.  But, I think if that was done without a #&%^ good reason I beleive that the Region Commander should be replaced.  For the fact that he was trying to make a point and not do what was best for the Wing.   This is MHO

[O-Rex]

I'm not sure what you are asking.

It says right in your quote that that those are only suggested guidelines.

Okay, If a region commander would do that and place an 18 yo SM in a position of Wing Commander.  I give him all the right to do so.  But, I think if that was done without a #&%^ good reason I beleive that the Region Commander should be replaced.  For the fact that he was trying to make a point and not do what was best for the Wing.   This is MHO

I'm a firm believer that Wing Commanders & above should be somewhat gray of hair & crinkly of eye: there is no substitute for experience, CAP or otherwise.

I've seen more bad wunderkind/shake-n-bake Wing CC's than good ones.

[Eclipse]

Under no circumstances would I advocate such an action - I think the guidelines as written are appropriate, only pointing out that there are no actual requirements.

[jimmydeanno]

I'm a firm believer that Wing Commanders & above should be somewhat gray of hair & crinkly of eye: there is no substitute for experience, CAP or otherwise.

I've seen many wing CCs that met those criteria, but don't necessarily do a good job.  Our current wing CC has us set up in very regmented levels and color coded even.  So the green guys shouldn't talk to the red guys and the blue guys can talk to the red but not the yellow, etc.  In fact, it is one of the worst CAP environments I've ever been in - no communication, no pre-planning of anything all our PD courses get canceled because they announce them a week prior and don't get enough students...worst of all they have this stupid idea that the squadron is there to support the wing...

Experience I agree with, someone should have some low level command experience, whether from CAP or not.  But at the same token, they really should have a clue and just because you are old and crinkly doesn't give you a clue.