CAP and Employers????

[Major Carrales]

"That still exists?  I knew it was around in WWII, but I didn't know it was still around."
"What is Civil Air Patrol?"
"Are you guys like the Air National Guard/Air Force Reserve, where I'm gonna have to let you go for two weeks or more a year?"

I said this in a previous thread, but I've had employers who didn't hire me because I was in CAP (based on their reaction), my CAP status helped me get a job (my boss/interviewer was retired USAF), and I had one particular employer who was very hostile about my CAP involvement.

Sounds like basic ignorance about the nature of CAP.

[Eclipse]

I said this in a previous thread, but I've had employers who didn't hire me because I was in CAP (based on their reaction), my CAP status helped me get a job (my boss/interviewer was retired USAF), and I had one particular employer who was very hostile about my CAP involvement.

I'd say that any place where CAP is considered a negative, is not a place where someone who is active would want to work anyway, and the
interview process did its job for both sides.

[bflynn]

It's been raised many times about CAP having a cultural problem and/or a leadership problem.  I'd suggest that CAP also has an image problem.  A large number of people don't know about us, but of those who do, a large percentage - possibly even a majority - have a negative opinion. 

If you read the red, blue and purple aviation boards, go look at the recent threads there about us.  The results - from other pilots - are not flattering.  It's probably 70% negative, 10% positive and 20% CAP members sticking up for it.

Does that carry through to the general public?  As I said, I'd bet that most people don't know about us.  But I'd also bet that those who do know have opinions slightly better than the pilot community.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'd say that any place where CAP is considered a negative, is not a place where someone who is active would want to work anyway, and the
interview process did its job for both sides.

True enough.  But as I stated elsewhere, the situation I refer to was a very odd one.

The young woman who hired me (and was to have been my boss) had been in the AF.  However, in the few days between my interview and my first day at work, she got fired!

I would take my uniform on unit nights and change in the men's room before going to CAP.  Too often I'd hear cracks like "go play Army on my taxpayer dime."

[Major Carrales]

It's been raised many times about CAP having a cultural problem and/or a leadership problem.  I'd suggest that CAP also has an image problem.  A large number of people don't know about us, but of those who do, a large percentage - possibly even a majority - have a negative opinion. 

If you read the red, blue and purple aviation boards, go look at the recent threads there about us.  The results - from other pilots - are not flattering.  It's probably 70% negative, 10% positive and 20% CAP members sticking up for it.

Does that carry through to the general public?  As I said, I'd bet that most people don't know about us.  But I'd also bet that those who do know have opinions slightly better than the pilot community.

That is why we as CAP members have to be leaders in the General Aviation community...leaders, not annoying or obnoxious.   Sometimes, however, there are things that CAP is doing that they cannot be a part of...like certain CD and HLS things.  I have read these same forums of "rubber neckers" trying to see what we are up to and asked to leave.

We are usually very helpful, or as helpful as we can be, to others at the General Aviation airports.

[bflynn]

Sometimes, however, there are things that CAP is doing that they cannot be a part of...like certain CD and HLS things.  I have read these same forums of "rubber neckers" trying to see what we are up to and asked to leave.

I've never heard of someone getting upset by that.  I think most pilots understand that operating two aircraft in close proximity has inherient risks.

This is things like CAP doing an exercise in close proximity to a non-towered airport without talking on the CTAF to tell anyone what they're doing.  Then on top of that, having a real life emergency where an airplane went down short of the that runway and CAP not reacting.

There are multiple instances of cadets providing security at airshows where they've caused issues because they were inflexible.  In one instance, delaying a performing pilot from getting to his airplane and setting the airshow schedule off.

A lot of the stories come from former members.  You can say they're just disgruntled, but there seem to be an awful lot of them. 

Maybe these are isolated instances that get told to hundreds of people.  But how they get spread is irrelevant - the fact is, CAP does have an image problem, especially in the pilot community.  I understand it, but I'm not sure I can accurately talk about it right now - I know it stems from culture, it stems from inflexibility and a demand that others comply for the purpose of compliance.

[754837]

Unfortunately I concur with the image problem statement from the above post.

[johnnyb47]

A little google searching yielded some interesting results on this subject;
It seems general aviation has an image problem in the commercial pilot community.
It seems the boy scouts have an image problem in the CAP cadet programs community.
It seems CERT has an image problem in the SAR/DR communities.
It seems that public school teachers have an image problem in the homeschool community.
It seems homeschoolers have an image problem in the public school community.
Etc
Etc

Lesson learned: people from all walks have problems with what the people on the other side of the fence are doing and everyone makes mistakes (CAP, as you can see, can be guilty of both). The only way to combat this is to do the best that you can in your individual and group efforts and avoid generally unhappy people at all cost. I can do the first part... the second part is a little trickier.

[RADIOMAN015]

I said this in a previous thread, but I've had employers who didn't hire me because I was in CAP (based on their reaction), my CAP status helped me get a job (my boss/interviewer was retired USAF), and I had one particular employer who was very hostile about my CAP involvement.

I'd say that any place where CAP is considered a negative, is not a place where someone who is active would want to work anyway, and the
interview process did its job for both sides.

Well that's really an individual's decision.   

Surely with some senior members living at home with their parents with no real career, other than a CAP 'volunteer' career (whatever the heck that means), they can be more flexible it finding new employment.  For those CAP members that have families to support, I think getting & keeping the job is likely more important than playing "military dress up" or "rescue ricky" (and when that former regional commander was told by his bosses make a choice, CAP activities or take the promotion and produce, he made the logically choice).

I also seem to think that the current law on guard/reserve military personnel, also is an abused law.  That law was originally meant for unit involuntary call ups,  --- it wasn't made for johnny guardman & janie reserve woman to voluntarily put in to deploy somewhere (and some do this volunteering on a regular basis) .   There's also those types that can't make a decision on whether they want a civilian career or a military career.   In today's dog eat dog work environment, the emphasis is on what that individual does for the company/organization/public agency, not what they do volunteering away from the workplace.   ANYONE who thinks otherwise is naive
RM

   
       

[Ned]

I also seem to think that the current law on guard/reserve military personnel, also is an abused law.  That law was originally meant for unit involuntary call ups,  --- it wasn't made for johnny guardman & janie reserve woman to voluntarily put in to deploy somewhere (and some do this volunteering on a regular basis) .   There's also those types that can't make a decision on whether they want a civilian career or a military career.   In today's dog eat dog work environment, the emphasis is on what that individual does for the company/organization/public agency, not what they do volunteering away from the workplace.   ANYONE who thinks otherwise is naive
RM

Sir, you indicate that you have military experience.  So what do you think is the effect on a Reserve or Guard career if one never volunteers for a tour or school, resists any deployment unless ordered to go, and otherwise strives to put in the absolute minimum of time?

Are these the kinds of reservists who get selected for promotion (and the schools and assignments necessary to be "best qualified" for promotion)?

As you must surely know, reservists make countless decisions about balancing work and family with their Reserve and Guard careers, ultimately sacrificing a little of each for the greater good of our nation.

I'm truly sorry if you think that is "abusive."

Talk about naive . . .

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I also seem to think that the current law on guard/reserve military personnel, also is an abused law.  That law was originally meant for unit involuntary call ups,  --- it wasn't made for johnny guardman & janie reserve woman to voluntarily put in to deploy somewhere (and some do this volunteering on a regular basis) .

Really?

Better kibosh Airman Leadership School and stay at E-4 forever.  You don't need those extra stripes, nor that extra pay that goes to help feed your family and pay the rent.

And if you have plans to become an OFFICER...best wait until you're ordered to OTS or AMS.  12 weeks or 6 weeks away just to get shiny new butterbars...doesn't cut it in the corporate world.

Also of note: When I worked at my CAP-unfriendly employer, I was not living at home with my parents.  I lived alone in an apartment.

I'm fully in line with what Ned says on the subject.

[RADIOMAN015]

I also seem to think that the current law on guard/reserve military personnel, also is an abused law.  That law was originally meant for unit involuntary call ups,  --- it wasn't made for johnny guardman & janie reserve woman to voluntarily put in to deploy somewhere (and some do this volunteering on a regular basis) .   There's also those types that can't make a decision on whether they want a civilian career or a military career.   In today's dog eat dog work environment, the emphasis is on what that individual does for the company/organization/public agency, not what they do volunteering away from the workplace.   ANYONE who thinks otherwise is naive
RM

Sir, you indicate that you have military experience.  So what do you think is the effect on a Reserve or Guard career if one never volunteers for a tour or school, resists any deployment unless ordered to go, and otherwise strives to put in the absolute minimum of time?

Are these the kinds of reservists who get selected for promotion (and the schools and assignments necessary to be "best qualified" for promotion)?

As you must surely know, reservists make countless decisions about balancing work and family with their Reserve and Guard careers, ultimately sacrificing a little of each for the greater good of our nation.

I'm truly sorry if you think that is "abusive."

Talk about naive . . .

I think many who are in the reserve or national guard are at a disadvantage in securing employment if he/she looses their current job and retains reserve/guard membership.   (I believe there's a large national trucking firm that always hired military reservists/guardsman that had a serious staffing problem for awhile when many of them deployed).  This also applies to Civil Air Patrol members who talk too much about CAP during interviews or the way they place this on their resumes.

I think most HR departments that have military veterans and or military retirees in them will try to help the veteran/military retiree presenting at the door looking for a job, in getting a job (as long as everything else checks out ok).    HOWEVER, one does hire people that are expected to be on the job every day meeting the appropriate objectives.   Not many employers are thrilled when a guardsman or reservist go off to "voluntary" duty (and most can find that out).   I agree with you that surely for the Guardsman/Reservist it's very difficult for them.  Maybe guard, reserve, and even CAP members can sell their training to their employers, who will see it as a win situation for the business/non profit organization/government agency .   
RM