UPDATE: "HELP!!! its about the triangle-thingy "

[usafcap1]

Well my last post from a while back called "HELP!!! its about the triangle-thingy" ( http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14428.msg260694#msg260694 )
I said "My UC wants to put the triangle-thingy on our new sqdrn patch. I ask you wat should I do or say? H e wants feedback and reasons why something should or shouldn't be on it." well he didn't really care and did it anyways here is what it looks like.

[SarDragon]

We can't see the image, because it's only on your computer. It needs to be hosted somewhere on the web in order for anyone else to see it.

[usafcap1]

We can't see the image, because it's only on your computer. It needs to be hosted somewhere on the web in order for anyone else to see it.

ican't see it i figered its was because on my side. But I work on it.


Thanks

[usafcap1]

FIXED IT. THANK GOSH FOR FACEBOOK  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:   

[Dad2-4]

I don't care for it:
1. Doesn't conform to USAF squadron patch guidelines for shape. Shields and scrolls are generally reserved for major commands.
2. Colors are too dark.
3. To me the eagle looks reminiscent of a German Weimar eagle (also used by the Nazi party)
4. The triangle thingy. Better if the triangle was larger and the prop was completely inside it.

BTW, this design and the idea of a rap song for the squadron scream immaturity to me.

[capmaj]

Just a couple of questions  .................. Do you know if this patch was approved by Col Lehman, the Washington CC ? And isn't Paine Field actually 'Paine Field Composite Squadron'?

[RiverAux]

although we're not bound by AF heraldry standards, I seem to recall seeing that they don't allow to put existing symbols inside a patch design.  For example, they wouldnj't let you put that AF symbol inside an AF squadron patch.   I could be wrong as I don't have my reference material with me.

[Angus]

I don't care for it:
1. Doesn't conform to USAF squadron patch guidelines for shape. Shields and scrolls are generally reserved for major commands.

BTW, this design and the idea of a rap song for the squadron scream immaturity to me.

My old Squadrong had a shield with scroll that was approved with no trouble. 

It's also one of the few Squadron Patches that doesn't have the old three triangels with inner props.  They were given special permission to use another logo in it's place because of the city it's in.  The commander went for something a little iconic for those of us that are members of the Nation up here. 

[Eclipse]

And isn't Paine Field actually 'Paine Field Composite Squadron'?

It is today, and might not be next year, which is why I rarely put the unit type in the insignia. it's irrelevant to the public, and not even really that important internally in regards to a unit patch, etc.

My old Squadrong had a shield with scroll that was approved with no trouble. 

How long ago?  Awareness of, and adherence to, the guideline is relatively new in CAP, and a lot of wings still claim ignorance. 
Anyone aware of the proper usage should not  be submitting incorrect shapes, regardless of whether it might sneak through the Wing CC.

[Angus]

My old Squadrong had a shield with scroll that was approved with no trouble. 

How long ago?  Awareness of, and adherence to, the guideline is relatively new in CAP, and a lot of wings still claim ignorance. 
Anyone aware of the proper usage should not  be submitting incorrect shapes, regardless of whether it might sneak through the Wing CC.

They got it approved probably back in 1993 or so when the Squadron got started. 

[Eclipse]

They got it approved probably back in 1993 or so when the Squadron got started.

That makes sense, they most likely would not get it approved like that now.

My wing actually went as far as to publish a supplement that requires units to redesign non-compliant insignia before they are
allowed to order anything featuring it incurs a cost.

[abdsp51]

My first squadron had a shield squadron patch that was worn for as long as I can remember and I think it may still be worn today.

[Eclipse]

It's not that the colors are just too dark, they are actually incorrect, and I would posit that as presented
lean more towards the negative aspects of the color vs. the positive.

The guidlines have a number of comments in regards to color:
http://www.afhra.af.mil/documents/hgc3/index.asp

• Using Colors in Emblems
  The colors of an emblem often have significance but that is always secondary to the symbolism of the emblem. The colors of the Air Force, ultramarine blue and Air Force yellow, should appear in the design; the blue represents "the sky", the primary theater of Air Force operations, while Air Force yellow represents "the sun" and the excellence required of Air Force personnel. A note of caution, ultramarine blue, while it represents the sky, is not a light blue; an ultramarine blue shield or disc is fairly dark and requires charges of good contrast. A rule of thumb when assigning color to design elements is to use colors that contrast: dark on light, light on dark. Heraldry divides colors into metals -- gold (yellows) and silver (white, silver gray) -- and colors (reds, blues, greens). The cardinal rule of heraldry is no metal on metal and no color on color. The positive and negative association of twelve colors appears below for field personnel who are considering the design of organizational emblems.
  
  RED (heraldic GULES) Positive: blood of life, boldness, Christ, courage, hardiness, liberty, magnanimity, passion, patriotism, planet Mars, sentiment, strength, valor, warmth (of fire), and zeal. Negative: anarchy, blood (spilled), danger, death throes, Satan, fire (burning), passions, revolution, war, and wounds.
  
  ORANGE (heraldic Tenne) Positive: ambition, benevolence, earthly wisdom, endurance, fire, flames, hospitality, marriage, pride, and strength. Negative: malevolence and Satan.
  
  GOLD (heraldic OR) [interchangeable with YELLOW] Positive: honor, majesty (royalty), mystic aspects of the sun, riches, and wisdom. Negative: idolatry.
  
  YELLOW (also heraldic OR)  Positive: constancy, dissemination, divinity, elevation of mind, excellence, highest values, honor, illumination, intellect, intuition, justice, light, loyalty, magnanimity, riches, ripened grain, sun, supreme wisdom and wisdom. Negative: cowardice and treachery.
  
  BROWN . Positive: the earth and lesser nobility. Negative: Barrenness and poverty.
  
  GREEN (heraldic VERT). Positive: adaptability, auspiciousness, gladness, fertility of fields, freshness, hope, immortality, joy, love, life, nature, prosperity, sympathy, vegetation, planet Venus, wisdom, and youth. Negative: disgrace, envy, jealousy, lividness, madness, opposition, and sinisterness.
  
  BLUE (heraldic AZURE). Positive: (light blue) calm seas, charity, cold, constancy, daylight, devotion, innocence, planet Jupiter, justice, loyalty, piety, sincerity, sky, thinking, and truth. Negative (dark blue): doubt, discomfort, night, and stormy seas.
  
  PURPLE (heraldic PURPURE). Positive: empire, humility, jurisdiction, love of truth, loyalty, memories, planet Mercury, nostalgia, patience, power, rank, royalty, sacrifice, and spirituality. Negative: martyrdom, mourning, penitence, regret, resignation, and sublimation.
  
  BLACK (heraldic SABLE). Positive: constancy, dignity, determination, divine doctrine, fertilized land, humility, mighty, night, prudence, regality, planet Saturn, sophistication, sorrow, and starkness. Negative: death, despair, evilness, grief, morbidity, nothingness, penitence, sickness, sin, and void.
  
  GRAY (heraldic ARGENT). Positive: discretion, humility, maturity, penitence, renunciation, and retrospection. Negative: barrenness, depression, egoism, grief, indifference, inertia, neutralization, old age, and winter.
  
  SILVER (heraldic ARGENT). Positive: charity, chastity, clear conscience, faith, moon, innocence, purity, and test of truth. Negative: blank, cold, ghostly, spectral, and void.
  
  WHITE (also heraldic ARGENT). Positive: daylight, innocence, perfection, purity, truth, and wisdom. Negative: same as for silver above.
  
  Note: GRAY, SILVER, and White are all ARGENT and interchangeable.

[usafcap1]

Just a couple of questions  .................. Do you know if this patch was approved by Col Lehman, the Washington CC ? And isn't Paine Field actually 'Paine Field Composite Squadron'?

Yes it was approved by wing. and I don't why it doesn't say Composite Squadron, But I'm guessing it was because of spacing.

[A.Member]

I don't care for it:
1. Doesn't conform to USAF squadron patch guidelines for shape. Shields and scrolls are generally reserved for major commands.
2. Colors are too dark.
3. To me the eagle looks reminiscent of a German Weimar eagle (also used by the Nazi party)
4. The triangle thingy. Better if the triangle was larger and the prop was completely inside it.

Concour! 

Is there any actual heraldry associated with the design?  It doesn't appear so.

[Eclipse]

It would appear that your unit already has an insignia.



And I would say the existing one is infinity preferable to the one you say is the "new" one.
Better detail, better colors, more appropriate design. Throw that in the proper shape
on an ultramarine field and you'd really have a nice insignia.

[usafcap1]

It would appear that your unit already has an insignia.



And I would say the existing one is infinity preferable to the one you say is the "new" one.
Better detail, better colors, more appropriate design. Throw that in the proper shape
on an ultramarine field and you'd really have a nice insignia.

well i'v never seen that one before. The old patch was just the eagle. And in the middle  said Paine Field EAGLES 049. Try sewing that on. the wings were h311

[usafcap1]

It would appear that your unit already has an insignia.



And I would say the existing one is infinity preferable to the one you say is the "new" one.
Better detail, better colors, more appropriate design. Throw that in the proper shape
on an ultramarine field and you'd really have a nice insignia.

Wait. . . did you use Photoshop to make that?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Don't know the software,  but Eclipse has designed patches in the past, and yes, I'm assuming he's using what you currently have, and made a "proper" unit patch in something like photoshop.

[Eclipse]

Yes, just an example - the eagle is the unit insignia from your unit's web page, and very sharp IMHO.
It also look less 70's then the "new" one.

The below is just one quick example of a proper disc with rockers.

A proper update would respect the lineage of the old patch while making it compliant.