The USO

[RADIOMAN015]

Yes.... Adult environment.  Alcohol served.  Not porn.    All the USOs Ive been to were basically a bar atmosphere.  Its a place for big kids. 

Regardless, Cadet or Senior, CAP absolutely should not take advantage of the USO.  Its for service members only.

The USO is not for CAP.  At all, ever.

I beg to differ.

The USO is for whomever USO decides it is for. I am not aware of them declaring that Internet forum posters had been delegated that responsibility on their behalf.

I coordinated outbound and inbound IACE at LAX for many years. The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

Now, that doesn't mean that any CAP member should feel free to quote this post and drop in at their local USO. But it does mean that <<The USO is not for CAP.  At all, ever>> is not a completely accurate statement.

Hmm it looks to me like this organization exists to provide support to military personnel and their families
http://www.uso.org/the-organization.aspx

CAP members (cadet or adults) unless they meet the eligibility requirements of military member or dependent really shouldn't be getting any benefit from this organization.

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .
RM     

[NIN]

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .

Yeah, shame on them for not forcing the airlines to change their schedules to accommodate IACE.

You clearly don't know who Bernie is, do you?  That makes it even funnier

[N Harmon]

CAP members (cadet or adults) unless they meet the eligibility requirements of military member or dependent really shouldn't be getting any benefit from this organization.

Why? Why does it make you so angry that this organization might give support to CAP in certain circumstances?

[PA Guy]

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .

Yeah, shame on them for not forcing the airlines to change their schedules to accommodate IACE.

You clearly don't know who Bernie is, do you?  That makes it even funnier

Nin, don't bother it would go right over RMs head.  After all, he is the final word on all things CAP because he was in the Real Military and must show us mere CAP types the true way.

[caphornbuckle]

Sounds like this thread is gonna get locked soon 

[NIN]

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .

Yeah, shame on them for not forcing the airlines to change their schedules to accommodate IACE.

You clearly don't know who Bernie is, do you?  That makes it even funnier

Nin, don't bother it would go right over RMs head.  After all, he is the final word on all things CAP because he was in the Real Military and must show us mere CAP types the true way.

a) The Chief Protector Arbiter of Those Who Are Allowed Entrance to the Grand USO.
b) The Chief Critic of Those Who Run NCSAs Involving Airline Travel for 17 Year Old Cadets Returning from Overseas Locations
(Note: Please do not mention the concept of connecting flights or layovers between the Point of Embarkation/Debarkation and Home Station.  It causes apoplexy and frothing at the mouth, and incessant ranting about escorts from door to door)

But from way out there in Western Mass, he can sure tell everybody else how to get it done.

Here's a great idea: Volunteer to run an NCSA. See how much better you do.  We'll wait, let us know how it goes.

[NIN]

Why? Why does it make you so angry that this organization might give support to CAP in certain circumstances?

Because. Everybody in CAP is a bunch of fakers.  You know that.

You faker.

Signed,

The guy who faked it in CAP for 28 years..

[Mitchell 1969]

Hmm it looks to me like this organization exists to provide support to military personnel and their families
http://www.uso.org/the-organization.aspx

CAP members (cadet or adults) unless they meet the eligibility requirements of military member or dependent really shouldn't be getting any benefit from this organization.

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .
RM   
[/quote]

Well...Unlike the East Coast IACE outbound, the West Coast has no gathering event (AKA tour of DC). Participants start their departure day at the crack of dawn or earlier, starting at Bugtussle Regional Airport, changing in Atlanta, Chicago or Dallas. They arrive at various times, dependent on flight schedules. They. An arrive at any one of 8 terminals and eventually have to meet up for their international departures.

The difference between arrival and departure could be anywhere from one to six hours. Sometimes they would arrive concurrently - time wise, anyway. But never terminal wise. No matter. They were all met and delivered to the gate or USO. I'd meet with them at some point. I did not stay with them all day. Mind you, I
Didn't travel with them from Bugtussle, Atlanta, Chicago and Dallas, either. Shame on me.

The process reversed when they got back. Considering that the youngest was 17, and they had my cell phone number, email address and a direct line into the Airport Police Dignitary Protection Unit, plus the USO, plus access to the airport employee cafeteria (about 100 yards from the USO), and also considering that they were Dynamic Americans and Aerospace Leaders, often with GT experience, I thought they might be able to survive ok. And, I guess National did, too, because they did the scheduling.

Wonder of wonders - we lost nary a one. However, since you seem to have discovered a problem that nobody else did, including the USO, how about helping out with the solution?

To guarantee that they all arrive, gather and stay together, supervised, they will each need a hotel room. In fact, two. One outbound, one inbound. Will that be cash, credit, or do you just want NHQ to bill you?

Thank you for your concern and generosity.

[RADIOMAN015]

Hmm it looks to me like this organization exists to provide support to military personnel and their families
http://www.uso.org/the-organization.aspx

CAP members (cadet or adults) unless they meet the eligibility requirements of military member or dependent really shouldn't be getting any benefit from this organization.

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .
RM   

Well...Unlike the East Coast IACE outbound, the West Coast has no gathering event (AKA tour of DC). Participants start their departure day at the crack of dawn or earlier, starting at Bugtussle Regional Airport, changing in Atlanta, Chicago or Dallas. They arrive at various times, dependent on flight schedules. They. An arrive at any one of 8 terminals and eventually have to meet up for their international departures.

The difference between arrival and departure could be anywhere from one to six hours. Sometimes they would arrive concurrently - time wise, anyway. But never terminal wise. No matter. They were all met and delivered to the gate or USO. I'd meet with them at some point. I did not stay with them all day. Mind you, I
Didn't travel with them from Bugtussle, Atlanta, Chicago and Dallas, either. Shame on me.

The process reversed when they got back. Considering that the youngest was 17, and they had my cell phone number, email address and a direct line into the Airport Police Dignitary Protection Unit, plus the USO, plus access to the airport employee cafeteria (about 100 yards from the USO), and also considering that they were Dynamic Americans and Aerospace Leaders, often with GT experience, I thought they might be able to survive ok. And, I guess National did, too, because they did the scheduling.

Wonder of wonders - we lost nary a one. However, since you seem to have discovered a problem that nobody else did, including the USO, how about helping out with the solution?

To guarantee that they all arrive, gather and stay together, supervised, they will each need a hotel room. In fact, two. One outbound, one inbound. Will that be cash, credit, or do you just want NHQ to bill you?

Thank you for your concern and generosity.
[/quote]

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.    I salute you for stepping forward and doing this :clap:   Surely, there's some fine organization that will make exceptions to what they are organized for, sort of like "mission creep".

HOWEVER, that being said (and as you indicate as a disclaimer), again the USO isn't organized to support Civil Air Patrol cadets or senior members as part of its' regular mission.  Hopefully with your post, there won't be more attempts to pawn off CAP's responsibilities for cadets to more USO's.
RM
 

[PhoenixRisen]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

My WAG is that friend RM15 wants CAP, both as an organisation and as individuals, to be completely divorced from any connection with any of the five military services, except where funding for ES missions is involved.

[RADIOMAN015]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

And again that is VERY NICE, that the USO organization at that location is willing to step up to help CAP, since CAP is unwilling/unable to help itself and again I personally salute the USO for their efforts in doing this :clap:   

Now IF it was mentioned that a few CAP senior members stay with the cadets, than I would have a different opinion.   I'm definitely not against the USO, they are great organization.  HOWEVER, Civil Air Patrol has a responsibility for those cadets in transit, it is NOT a USO responsibility  (and frankly I've had my share of long lay overs and it isn't very comfortable).  I guess we have no CAP senior members in the LAX area that could help out .  That's my point in these postings.   
RM

[PA Guy]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

Logic, ignorance and a healthy dose of arrogance have never gotten in his his way in the past.  He fancies himself quite the contrarian.

[Mitchell 1969]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

And again that is VERY NICE, that the USO organization at that location is willing to step up to help CAP, since CAP is unwilling/unable to help itself and again I personally salute the USO for their efforts in doing this :clap:   

Now IF it was mentioned that a few CAP senior members stay with the cadets, than I would have a different opinion.   I'm definitely not against the USO, they are great organization.  HOWEVER, Civil Air Patrol has a responsibility for those cadets in transit, it is NOT a USO responsibility  (and frankly I've had my share of long lay overs and it isn't very comfortable).  I guess we have no CAP senior members in the LAX area that could help out .  That's my point in these postings.   
RM

Oh, I was about as close to the LAX area as anybody possibly could be. And i do mean anybody. And I do mean as close as possible.

That's how I chose to set it up. USO had no problem with it. NHQ had no problem with it. None of the participants had any problem with it. And I am not the least bit interested in entertaining you having a problem with it.

[RADIOMAN015]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

And again that is VERY NICE, that the USO organization at that location is willing to step up to help CAP, since CAP is unwilling/unable to help itself and again I personally salute the USO for their efforts in doing this :clap:   

Now IF it was mentioned that a few CAP senior members stay with the cadets, than I would have a different opinion.   I'm definitely not against the USO, they are great organization.  HOWEVER, Civil Air Patrol has a responsibility for those cadets in transit, it is NOT a USO responsibility  (and frankly I've had my share of long lay overs and it isn't very comfortable).  I guess we have no CAP senior members in the LAX area that could help out .  That's my point in these postings.   
RM

Oh, I was about as close to the LAX area as anybody possibly could be. And i do mean anybody. And I do mean as close as possible.

That's how I chose to set it up. USO had no problem with it. NHQ had no problem with it. None of the participants had any problem with it. And I am not the least bit interested in entertaining you having a problem with it.

Again that's great, you don't mention if you are a CAP member or not, so perhaps that the confusing part of this.  I salute you and the USO for willing to help the CAP organization :clap: :clap: :clap:
RM 

[NIN]

My WAG is that friend RM15 wants CAP, both as an organisation and as individuals, to be completely divorced from any connection with any of the five military services, except where funding for ES missions is involved.

RM15 would be most happy if, during any point where any Civil Air Patrol member must, for some completely unknown and unfathomable reason (to him), wear a USAF-style uniform, there would be someone walking behind that member carrying a large blaze orange sign that had a gigantic arrow pointing down at the person in the USAF-style uniform that said "Hey, this person is a big fat military faker. They're not military, so please, for the love of all that is holy and right with the world, do not salute this person, call them 'sir' or 'ma'am', imply in any way shape or form that they are possibly connected with any of the uniformed services and especially not the United States Air Force, and whatever you do, don't give them a discount for being in uniform, and if you're particularly feeling saucy today, call the FBI and report them as being a big fat faker, mmmkay?"

[RADIOMAN015]

My WAG is that friend RM15 wants CAP, both as an organisation and as individuals, to be completely divorced from any connection with any of the five military services, except where funding for ES missions is involved.

RM15 would be most happy if, during any point where any Civil Air Patrol member must, for some completely unknown and unfathomable reason (to him), wear a USAF-style uniform, there would be someone walking behind that member carrying a large blaze orange sign that had a gigantic arrow pointing down at the person in the USAF-style uniform that said "Hey, this person is a big fat military faker. They're not military, so please, for the love of all that is holy and right with the world, do not salute this person, call them 'sir' or 'ma'am', imply in any way shape or form that they are possibly connected with any of the uniformed services and especially not the United States Air Force, and whatever you do, don't give them a discount for being in uniform, and if you're particularly feeling saucy today, call the FBI and report them as being a big fat faker, mmmkay?"

We seem to be getting off topic, but the Air Force has a clear review of the status of Civil Air Patrol personnel, and that is defined in Air Force Instruction 10-2701, Chapter 1.   For those adults that like to 'play military dress up', it is what it is :angel:
RM

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We seem to be getting off topic, but the Air Force has a clear review of the status of Civil Air Patrol personnel, and that is defined in Air Force Instruction 10-2701, Chapter 1.   For those adults that like to 'play military dress up', it is what it is :angel:
RM

I keep a printout of AFI 10-2701 in my CAP binder.

Do you mean this part?

1.3.2. Uniform Wear and Personal Appearance. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP or Air Force-style uniforms in accordance with CAP regulations (civilian clothing may be worn when specific missions dictate). The Air Force controls the configuration of the Air Force-style uniform worn by CAP members.


It says nothing about "wanna bes," or "adults wanting to "play military dress up."

Nor does it say anything about any kind of relationship between CAP and the USO being verboten.

[RADIOMAN015]

We seem to be getting off topic, but the Air Force has a clear review of the status of Civil Air Patrol personnel, and that is defined in Air Force Instruction 10-2701, Chapter 1.   For those adults that like to 'play military dress up', it is what it is :angel:
RM

I keep a printout of AFI 10-2701 in my CAP binder.

Do you mean this part?

1.3.2. Uniform Wear and Personal Appearance. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP or Air Force-style uniforms in accordance with CAP regulations (civilian clothing may be worn when specific missions dictate). The Air Force controls the configuration of the Air Force-style uniform worn by CAP members.


It says nothing about "wanna bes," or "adults wanting to "play military dress up."

Nor does it say anything about any kind of relationship between CAP and the USO being verboten.

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

RM

[FlyTiger77]

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

RM

Which has absolutely no impact on how the USO, also a civilian organization, operates its (wonderful) business. The USO is no more bound by an AFI than McDonald's is.

Now, having said that, there should be no routine expectation that CAP is entitled to use the (wonderful) services of the USO. However, the USO, at its perogative, can (and has) make its (wonderful) services available to CAP.