When do I get to wear...?

[LtCol Hooligan]

Can I wear the BBDU without the nametape? One of the charts in the back of CAPM39 seemed to make it sounds like it was optional... the reason I ask is that the Hock is not sending the tape for another 3 weeks and I really hate wearing the golf shirt uniform that my squadron prefers.

I say no- you should not wear any uniform incomplete.  It looks unprofessional and should not be done.  Since you have an alternate uniform, I recommend wearing that until your patches arrive.  CAPM 39-1 Reads:

3. Cloth Name Tape: Ultramarine blue with white letters, worn centered immediately above the right breast pocket (only last name will be used). Tape will be the width of the pocket with raw ends folded under.

[Hawk200]

How about another uniform question -

Can I wear the BBDU without the nametape? One of the charts in the back of CAPM39 seemed to make it sounds like it was optional... the reason I ask is that the Hock is not sending the tape for another 3 weeks and I really hate wearing the golf shirt uniform that my squadron prefers.

You can get nametapes from a few different companies. They just won't make a "Civil Air Patrol" tape. Spur, and 1-800-NAMETAPE come to mind. With those, if you ordered today, they'd be in your mailbox Friday. There are a few others, too.

They won't make a CAP specific tape for you, they got C&D letters from National.

[alamrcn]

Personally, I would not wear the CAT EYED "Pluto Patch," but I don't think it looks that bad for Cadets.

The Bookstore initially got it right... kinda. The design introduced at the end of the last decade clearly had "B" shaped eyes, like that of version 2 of the original "Bird Dog patch in the 60s. The first dog had round eye balls, and not sure why they changed to the letter "B"... maybe Lt Col Shaw can offer a guess. Between the Bookstore and the Hock Shop, the "B" quickly formed into a line with two bumps, and then into a crescent moon shape resembling a cat's eyes... icky!

So what do we do?


1. Leave it like it is and those that want to wear it can, and those that don't do not.
2. Design and propose a new, super cool, highspeed ES Specialty qualification patch and open it up to the ridicule of...
   A.  Not another uniform change!
       i.  I like the old one better.
       ii.  Why do we need another patch?
       iii.  I hate patches!
           a.  Kill it.
           b.  KILL ALL the patches!
           c.  Die, DIe, DIE!!!!!!!
   B.  It's the wrong...
       i.  shape according to the USAF regs.
       ii.  size to fit on Oompa Loompa-size BDUs.
       iii.  location on the uniform.
   C.  It makes us look too much like...
       i.  the police.
       ii.  the real military.
       iii.  the Boy/Girl Scouts.
3.  Vanguard will never get it in anyway, so why bother.


Personally I would LOVE to see some really nice patch that we can be proud to wear - as much as the uniform itself. Without some kind of unique and varied patches among our members, we end up wearing hunting cloths - and THAT is unprofessional. Unfortunately, I think option 3 is the most likely candidate right now.

Oh yeah, don't order your tapes - Civil Air Patrol and Name - from different sources. The chances of getting a match on the shade of the blue webing or size and font of the white letters is astronomical!


-Ace

[MIKE]

Can I wear the BBDU without the nametape? One of the charts in the back of CAPM39 seemed to make it sounds like it was optional... the reason I ask is that the Hock is not sending the tape for another 3 weeks and I really hate wearing the golf shirt uniform that my squadron prefers.

No, all the way on or all the way off.

[JohnKachenmeister]

How about another uniform question -

Can I wear the BBDU without the nametape? One of the charts in the back of CAPM39 seemed to make it sounds like it was optional... the reason I ask is that the Hock is not sending the tape for another 3 weeks and I really hate wearing the golf shirt uniform that my squadron prefers.

I don't think you can.  There are a LOT of problems with some of the tables in 39-1, and there are quite a few conflicts in information provided.

[JohnKachenmeister]

As best I can tell, The ES patch should still be awarded on a CAPF2a or Personnel Authorization. The new language is rather vague, but it does refer to "Awards requests will automatically be generated when requirements for qualifications or certifications are earned and posted in the national headquarters qualification and certification system".

Awards request sounds an awful lot like a CAPF2a to me, which is how it was spelled out in the old regs.

Note that in many wings (inc FL), approval authority for this award has been delegated to the Group or Squadron CC, rather than the Wing CC as specified in the reg - http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082203095100.pdf

Incidentally, I do encourage folks to wear it if they have it in order to give newbies something visible to work toward. I still prefer the T-34 patch even if the other is a facsimile of the original 1950s ES patch with a pic of a Birddog (as in O-1)...it still looks like Pluto.

The T-34 was one of the WORST SAR platforms we ever had.  It had lousy downward visibility, it sucked gas like it was an Arab oil sheikh, it was noisy, and had terrible low-speed performance.  Why it is still on an authorized patch after we got rid of them is beyond me.  Pluto and bird dogs are a reference to the O-1, which was a far better aircraft for SAR.  Nobody wears cartoon patches anymore, though.  They fell out of favor by the late 1960's.

[JC004]

...
           c.  Die, DIe, DIE!!!!!!!
...

yeah...that one.

[jb512]

Personally, I would not wear the CAT EYED "Pluto Patch," but I don't think it looks that bad for Cadets.

The Bookstore initially got it right... kinda. The design introduced at the end of the last decade clearly had "B" shaped eyes, like that of version 2 of the original "Bird Dog patch in the 60s. The first dog had round eye balls, and not sure why they changed to the letter "B"... maybe Lt Col Shaw can offer a guess. Between the Bookstore and the Hock Shop, the "B" quickly formed into a line with two bumps, and then into a crescent moon shape resembling a cat's eyes... icky!

So what do we do?


1. Leave it like it is and those that want to wear it can, and those that don't do not.
2. Design and propose a new, super cool, highspeed ES Specialty qualification patch and open it up to the ridicule of...
   A.  Not another uniform change!
       i.  I like the old one better.
       ii.  Why do we need another patch?
       iii.  I hate patches!
           a.  Kill it.
           b.  KILL ALL the patches!
           c.  Die, DIe, DIE!!!!!!!
   B.  It's the wrong...
       i.  shape according to the USAF regs.
       ii.  size to fit on Oompa Loompa-size BDUs.
       iii.  location on the uniform.
   C.  It makes us look too much like...
       i.  the police.
       ii.  the real military.
       iii.  the Boy/Girl Scouts.
3.  Vanguard will never get it in anyway, so why bother.


Personally I would LOVE to see some really nice patch that we can be proud to wear - as much as the uniform itself. Without some kind of unique and varied patches among our members, we end up wearing hunting cloths - and THAT is unprofessional. Unfortunately, I think option 3 is the most likely candidate right now.

Oh yeah, don't order your tapes - Civil Air Patrol and Name - from different sources. The chances of getting a match on the shade of the blue webing or size and font of the white letters is astronomical!


-Ace

I like option #2.  About the only patch I really like is the old style command patch for the flight suit that had the CAP under the triangle, and U.S. Air Force Auxiliary in the scroll.  I'll wear that until the day it "expires".  We need more along those lines with better color combos, less balloon letters, and fewer bright children's colors.

[RogueLeader]

How about another uniform question -

Can I wear the BBDU without the nametape? One of the charts in the back of CAPM39 seemed to make it sounds like it was optional... the reason I ask is that the Hock is not sending the tape for another 3 weeks and I really hate wearing the golf shirt uniform that my squadron prefers.

Did they tell you that it won't be there for three weeks, or is that what option you chose?  Because if they told you three weeks, that's it.  If the option that you chose specified three weeks, that is just where your priority lies.
I had ordered a set with the three week option, but the tapes were mailed like two days after the rest.  If they are slow, they make them right away, If they are swamped, you wait while those spending more money are put ahead of you.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Personally, I would not wear the CAT EYED "Pluto Patch," but I don't think it looks that bad for Cadets.

The Bookstore initially got it right... kinda. The design introduced at the end of the last decade clearly had "B" shaped eyes, like that of version 2 of the original "Bird Dog patch in the 60s. The first dog had round eye balls, and not sure why they changed to the letter "B"... maybe Lt Col Shaw can offer a guess. Between the Bookstore and the Hock Shop, the "B" quickly formed into a line with two bumps, and then into a crescent moon shape resembling a cat's eyes... icky!

So what do we do?


1. Leave it like it is and those that want to wear it can, and those that don't do not.
2. Design and propose a new, super cool, highspeed ES Specialty qualification patch and open it up to the ridicule of...
   A.  Not another uniform change!
       i.  I like the old one better.
       ii.  Why do we need another patch?
       iii.  I hate patches!
           a.  Kill it.
           b.  KILL ALL the patches!
           c.  Die, DIe, DIE!!!!!!!
   B.  It's the wrong...
       i.  shape according to the USAF regs.
       ii.  size to fit on Oompa Loompa-size BDUs.
       iii.  location on the uniform.
   C.  It makes us look too much like...
       i.  the police.
       ii.  the real military.
       iii.  the Boy/Girl Scouts.
3.  Vanguard will never get it in anyway, so why bother.


Personally I would LOVE to see some really nice patch that we can be proud to wear - as much as the uniform itself. Without some kind of unique and varied patches among our members, we end up wearing hunting cloths - and THAT is unprofessional. Unfortunately, I think option 3 is the most likely candidate right now.

Oh yeah, don't order your tapes - Civil Air Patrol and Name - from different sources. The chances of getting a match on the shade of the blue webing or size and font of the white letters is astronomical!


-Ace

I like option #2.  About the only patch I really like is the old style command patch for the flight suit that had the CAP under the triangle, and U.S. Air Force Auxiliary in the scroll.  I'll wear that until the day it "expires".  We need more along those lines with better color combos, less balloon letters, and fewer bright children's colors.

If I thought I could get away with it, I would wear the old-style Auxiliary command patch until I "Expire."

[alamrcn]

If I thought I could get away with it, I would wear the old-style Auxiliary command patch until I "Expire."

Well, statistically - depending on your lifestyle - you have a good chance of expiring before such a termination date is set... if ever. Neither the old T-34 ES patch or large-size Comm patch have end wear dates.


I have and can still wear the NEAT pocket patch. Remember these?

I believe that either version is still acceptable. The text was removed at the end of the 80's per member request, but the first version was never "replaced" per say - just stopped being made.


Years from now, maybe no one would really notice because they forgot there were two styles to begin with. And those that do notice and remember might wish they had one too!

Take a look at this un-remarkable historical switch...

A couple years ago, you would never have picked out the difference between the older and newer versions. Even if two people with different patches were standing side-by-side, your mind just draws the conclusion that the patches are the same. S'Ok though, the second patch never officially "replaced" the first patch that I've heard - looks like it just happened.


-Ace

[alamrcn]

How come my posts are always the thread killer? 

[MIKE]

We hate patches. 

[0]

Nametape is still needed on the BBDU's.

[JC004]

We hate patches. 

[ColonelJack]

We hate patches. 

"Patches?  We don't need no steenking patches!"

Jack

[0]

the one bad thing about so many patches, the tailor knows me by name now and it's not my real name either.  it's something like, "obsurd number of patches" guy.

[Major Carrales]

Instead of the "traditional" patches (pluto et al) for ES, why not just replace all that with a patch version of this...



Sans the stars denoting track level.  It's an already existing design that looks a bit les cartoony.  I might simplify it, keep the shape and keep the red and have a "E" and an "S" within the silver triangle.

[MIKE]

For ES, the patch and badge have different requirements.

[0]

It's not a good idea to use the specialty badge for a patch as it's to show which specialty track you are in for the Profesional development.  I myself like the "Pluto" patch and don't think it looks that cartoony.  I've seen quite a number of Firefighter patches who have used many iconic cartoon characters on their patches.