Medals or just Ribbons

[Flying Pig]

Fall out of line?  WHy cant CAP have its own criteria for issueing medals?  Does anyone really think the military is at al concerned about how our awards are issued or whether or not they have medals associated with them?
Who cares if all of our ribbons have medals.  One big difference is that we dont have nearly the amount of ribbons/medals that the military has anyway.

[AlphaSigOU]

Prior to about 1968 or so, most CAP awards did not include a corresponding medal. It was not until the Air Force authorized the wear of mess dress for CAP senior members (with distinctive ultramarine blue sleeve and shoulder board braid, as well as the 'dinner plate' CAP seal) that miniature medals of practically all CAP awards were made for the mess dress.

With the exception of the Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor (which are the CAP propeller and triangle within a laurel wreath) and the Distinguished, Exceptional and Meritorious Service Medals (which are hexagonal in shape), all other CAP awards are 'gongs' - ahem - circular. The reasoning behind that was explained as that CAP is a non-combatant auxiliary, and since most awards were for service or achievement, the simple circular medal would suffice.

It would be expensive for CAP to have new dies struck doubling the size of the medal to make it suitable for full size wear; currently CAP does not have a uniform combination where full-size medals may be worn nor a way - yet - of creating a medal presentation set.

If I had the opportunity to create full size medals I would limit them to the following awards:

Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor
Distinguished, Exceptional and Meritorious Service Awards
Gill Robb Wilson Award
Paul Garber Award
Grover Loening Award
Benjamin Davis Award (only for completion of Level II)

For the former cadinks:

Spaatz Award
Eaker Award
Earhart Award
Mitchell Award
Wright Brothers Award (maybe)

All other awards would only keep the ribbon and the mini-medal.

[Grumpy]

Prior to about 1968 or so, most CAP awards did not include a corresponding medal. It was not until the Air Force authorized the wear of mess dress for CAP senior members (with distinctive ultramarine blue sleeve and shoulder board braid, as well as the 'dinner plate' CAP seal) that miniature medals of practically all CAP awards were made for the mess dress.

With the exception of the Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor (which are the CAP propeller and triangle within a laurel wreath) and the Distinguished, Exceptional and Meritorious Service Medals (which are hexagonal in shape), all other CAP awards are 'gongs' - ahem - circular. The reasoning behind that was explained as that CAP is a non-combatant auxiliary, and since most awards were for service or achievement, the simple circular medal would suffice.

It would be expensive for CAP to have new dies struck doubling the size of the medal to make it suitable for full size wear; currently CAP does not have a uniform combination where full-size medals may be worn nor a way - yet - of creating a medal presentation set.

If I had the opportunity to create full size medals I would limit them to the following awards:

Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor
Distinguished, Exceptional and Meritorious Service Awards
Gill Robb Wilson Award
Paul Garber Award
Grover Loening Award
Benjamin Davis Award (only for completion of Level II)

For the former cadinks:

Spaatz Award
Eaker Award
Earhart Award
Mitchell Award
Wright Brothers Award (maybe)

All other awards would only keep the ribbon and the mini-medal.

______________________________________________________________________________________

What about us former cadets that don't have a numbered Mitchell Award.  All I had was a cadet COP and they went and changed not only the name of the dang thing but the program too.    When people ask me what that little blue ribbon with the horizontal white lines and prop is, I tell them it's my "old Fart" ribbon.

[AlphaSigOU]

What about us former cadets that don't have a numbered Mitchell Award.  All I had was a cadet COP and they went and changed not only the name of the dang thing but the program too.    When people ask me what that little blue ribbon with the horizontal white lines and prop is, I tell them it's my "old Fart" ribbon.

Dadgummit... I forgot 'bout the old COP! Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

[SarDragon]

CAP considers everything to be a 'medal' in terms of decoration.  Therefore they make a mini medal for EVERYTHING (well, they've been approved but not manufactured yet).

Not all of them. My highest cadet award that I wear as a senior member (officer) is the Doolittle. There is no mini-medal associated with it.

Looking at the last CAP Mart catalog, I only see mini medals for the cadet awards, and none of the achievements. I don't think anything has changed since then.

[MIKE]

Throw 'em all out and fix the system.   Came up with this a while ago.

[Sgt. Savage]

The fact of the matter is, most of it's just "BLING". The membership "award", find "award" and Yeager "award" that are found in my rack were almost as easy to get as my Army Service Ribbon. I had a tougher time getting my Overseas Service Ribbon, and it's just a service ribbon, no medal involved. We really should have ribbon only awards. Why does a "Cherry" 2Lt need a medal?

[Grumpy]

The fact of the matter is, most of it's just "BLING". The membership "award", find "award" and Yeager "award" that are found in my rack were almost as easy to get as my Army Service Ribbon. I had a tougher time getting my Overseas Service Ribbon, and it's just a service ribbon, no medal involved. We really should have ribbon only awards. Why does a "Cherry" 2Lt need a medal?

______________________________________________________________________
I agree.  Just have ribbons for your levels to indicate training experience and medals for things such as the Medal of Valor, etc. (I can't think of the others right now).  That would make the medals mean a whole lot more and be a lot less weight on your Mess Dress.

[Hawk200]

The fact of the matter is, most of it's just "BLING". The membership "award", find "award" and Yeager "award" that are found in my rack were almost as easy to get as my Army Service Ribbon. I had a tougher time getting my Overseas Service Ribbon, and it's just a service ribbon, no medal involved. We really should have ribbon only awards. Why does a "Cherry" 2Lt need a medal?

I would say those a lot easier than the Service ribbon. There are a few decs for CAP that require a write-up, just like a military Achievement or Commendation. Why not make those actual "medals"? At least you would have done a little more to earn them, and those are the things you should take more pride in.

[davedove]

While in the military (and still) I always felt that if an accomplishment didn't rate a medal, it shouldn't get a ribbon.  But that's another discussion.

CAP ought to reflect the services as to whether an award rates a medal, or just a ribbon.  And remember, more than decorations rate medals in the military.  There are also all of the "been there" service medals.  Training awards are, for the most part, ribbon only awards.

So, the training/progression awards in CAP could be changed to ribbon only.  The activity awards are debatable, but I don't think medals are out of line for them.

I would love to see full size medals for CAP, but I also understand the expense of making them.  Anyway, as was said, what would we do with them.  You can't wear them on any uniform.  Now, if they were authorized for wear on civilian dress clothes, one could put them with military medals on special occasions.  Otherwise, they will be placed in shadow boxes and forgotten.

[ColonelJack]

I would love to see full size medals for CAP, but I also understand the expense of making them.  Anyway, as was said, what would we do with them.  You can't wear them on any uniform.  Now, if they were authorized for wear on civilian dress clothes, one could put them with military medals on special occasions.  Otherwise, they will be placed in shadow boxes and forgotten.

Well, at the risk of sounding like I am giving a certain two-star yet another uniform idea, I also support the creation of full-sized gongs for CAP.  And they could indeed be worn, on the corporate blue uniform in a "semi-formal" capacity -- as opposed to mess dress, which is a "formal" uniform.  Since ribbons and badges from the RealMilitary™ can't be worn on corporate blues, who's to say full-sized CAP medals would be inappropriate?  And only those who want them would buy them, so the only real cost to CAP is the set-up of the dies to strike the gongs.  The ribbon material can be made into a drape with little problem, and mounting -- well, that'd be up to the member.

(Donning flame-retardant material for anticipated dragonfire coming my way ...)

Jack

[SarDragon]

I see another economics of scale problem here. The fewer you have made, the higher the per item cost. How many folks are going to want/be able to wear large medals. Hundreds? Thousands? I think more like maybe dozens. Considering the awards that you guys want to even make medals for, it might be fewer than that. I'm just not seeing economical numbers here.

Would this be restricted to SMs, or open to cadets too?

[Hawk200]

I see another economics of scale problem here. The fewer you have made, the higher the per item cost. How many folks are going to want/be able to wear large medals. Hundreds? Thousands? I think more like maybe dozens. Considering the awards that you guys want to even make medals for, it might be fewer than that. I'm just not seeing economical numbers here.

Would this be restricted to SMs, or open to cadets too?

Cadets can't even wear Mess Dress, which is the only uniform we really have to wear them on. So it sounds like it would only really be for seniors.

Then again, the Air Force does not have a uniform that can be worn by everyone that includes full size medals. Why should we bother?

[James Shaw]

NationaL and others have considered this idea of the full size but it was not cost effective. The Air Force would not buy into the idea as well.

There are currently 4 full size awards authorized for wear.

The Falcon Award (Very rare find)
The Distinguished Service Award
The Silver Medal of Valor
The Bronze Medal of Valor

[davedove]

If they did decide to make select awards in a full sized medal, two good candidates would be the Wilson and Spaatz awards.  Those achieving the highest development in each program would then be "awarded" with a full size medal.  It would also make the presentations a little more special when pinning on a medal instead of just handing them a ribbon and certificate.

[James Shaw]

I would have to agree. I think the top ones for the cadets and seniors is a good idea. It would be a nice presentation piece.

[ColonelJack]

Not meaning to add to the pot or anything, but if the DSM is good enough for full-size, and we agree that the Spaatz and Wilson should be full-size, shouldn't the Exceptional Service, Meritorious Service, and Commander's Commendation (and National CC's Commendation) also be full-sized?  They're not training awards, they're personal decorations.  They should have medals too, I think.

Jack

[Hawk200]

Not meaning to add to the pot or anything, but if the DSM is good enough for full-size, and we agree that the Spaatz and Wilson should be full-size, shouldn't the Exceptional Service, Meritorious Service, and Commander's Commendation (and National CC's Commendation) also be full-sized?  They're not training awards, they're personal decorations.  They should have medals too, I think.

Jack

Agreed.

[SARMedTech]

The motion is carried. See you all next year in Atlantic City.

I think what you guys are coming up with sounds like it would make certain awards and decorations all the more special for the recipient if they were full sized. I mean what a wonderful thing to be able to have pinned on you and then displayed proudly in your home one of the Valor Medals, etc.

Some good thinking going on here.

[Hawk200]

Some good thinking going on here.

There's loads of good thinking here. Sadly, many people above our pay grade don't pay attention.