Physical fitness standards

[TX CAP Mom]

I apologize in advance if this has been answered. I have searched and cannot find current information. I am asking you because I am not getting answers from our squadron.

My cadet is struggling to pass PT. I have inquired via his chain of command as to what the standards are, apparently I was using the Cadet Super Chart that we were given when we signed up and it's not correct, but I was not told what the standards are. Then in a recent thread about changes (the 99 balloons thread) I had a specific question: the Cadet Super Chart states that for the first 3 promotions a cadet must only "attempt" the standards but only has to "attain" them for Wright Brothers. Someone confirmed, yes, attempt. So I downloaded the NEW Super Chart that was linked in the thread and we have been working out diligently to achieve the numbers that are stated on there for a 13 yo male. Mile = 9.46, Curl-ups = 21, Push-ups = 12, Sit and Reach = 8 (I don't even know what 8 means on that one).

I emailed the CoC again to inquire about attempt vs attain. That question was ignored, even upon a subsequent email to ask (the email was unanswered). Instead I was sent a copy of the "Cadet Physical Fitness Training Data Input Worksheet". It has all the cadets names in our squadron and the requirements for each physical fitness category. Every cadet has different numbers. My cadet has numbers required that I have never seen before. 36 curl ups and a 9.23 mile, 16 push-ups and a 20 sit and reach to be specific. Where are these numbers coming from? Was there some kind of a baseline established at his first PT attempt that he now has to beat? How can these numbers have NO resemblance to the numbers on the chart?

Please don't tell me my cadet should be able to reach these numbers. I know that. What I want to know is where the numbers come from. Why is there a Cadet Super Chart outlining requirements for promotion if they are to be flatly ignored? Why does that document say he can "attempt" the HFZ number that is outlined on the Chart, only to be told no he has to "attain" some arbitrary number that he has no idea what it is??

I'm very frustrated. I have NO idea who I am supposed to contact for this. My cadet even seems clueless at any given moment who his chain of command is. I know who the Squadron Commander is, but he has never spoken to me and never replied to my emails.

My goal is to simply help my cadet achieve these goals. He has gone months unable to promote because he has not achieved PT numbers that we did not know existed so we could not work toward them. Can anyone offer any insight? I feel on the verge of going MamaBear on somebody at the Squadron and I really don't want to do that. I want to be all chill and trust that everything will be fine. However CAP is supremely important to my kid and he's getting discouraged that PT feels like a moving target.

[Ned]

Forgive my brief response, but I am on the road and responding on my phone.

In about a week, the new CAPR 60-1 will be effective, and the new fitness test and standards  become mandatory.  So after February 1st, Phase 1 cadets need only attempt the test in good faith.  (Doing their best.)

Restated, they need not hit any particular numbers to pass and be promoted.  I can't really speak to the apparent miscommunication with your Squadron leadership, as I am confident that they are aware of the new standards. But given the imminent change, may have been responding with the old, pre-transition standards.

Thanks for the question, and I hope your Cadet will earn promotion rapidly to be of service to his/her community, state, and nation.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

[Fubar]

Typically I want to give the hard working volunteers that are attempting to execute a fairly complex cadet program the benefit of the doubt. I mean, hey, volunteers doing the best they can deserve a break. Yet they also accepted some significant responsibilities and one of them is being responsive to parents. The situation you describe simply isn't acceptable and I'm saddened to see a parent so frustrated.

I typically would cringe at the thought of a parent storming into a meeting demanding answers. It has shades of helicopter parenting. Yet I can't help but feel you going "MamaBear" on the squadron leadership is entirely deserved.

My guess is the squadron leadership simply doesn't know the answers to the questions you're asking - and they should, they have to move to this new PT program by 1 Feb. Until then, the squadron can stay on the "old" PT method, which they might be doing.

Good luck. If you're still not getting answers, you may want to consider moving to a squadron that's more organized or reaching out to the next level of leadership, known as the group commander. You can find out who that is here:

https://www.txwgcap.org/about/units/

Edit: I see Col Lee sniped me, but he's the guy who wrote most of the cadet rules - he knows of what he speaks.

[Cadetter]

The standards they gave you are correct per the old Cadet Super Chart that is permissible through the end of this month. My squadron is only switching to the new program starting February (the latest that squadrons can switch is February). Under the old program, he needs to pass mile run plus 2 of the other 3 activities. (Ignore Shuttle Run.) Assuming your squadron is also waiting until 1 Feb to use the new program, he would have needed to attain (not attempt) these standards. For the old program, look under Phase 1, for a 13-yo male:



Also, 8 on the new sit and reach means he can touch his toes while following the new standards.

Old CPFT: https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P052_018_501C183A14D19.pdf
Old Super Chart: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Super_Chart__2011_low__Copy_8371994AD16FE.pdf
New CPFT: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/5218_Draft_1_CB0D0A83CB4A2.pdf
New Super Chart: https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Super_Chart__2017_letter__combined_17CB4F9432F4D.pdf

BTW, I'm not excusing your squadron's terrible communication. His CoC should be able to answer what his PT requirements are easily (especially if you're using the old program still), and his commander definitely knows that the new one (requiring attempt, instead of attain) is mandatory starting 1 Feb.

[NIN]

BTW, I'm not excusing your squadron's terrible communication. His CoC should be able to answer what his PT requirements are easily (especially if you're using the old program still), and his commander definitely knows that the new one (requiring attempt, instead of attain) is mandatory starting 1 Feb.

As a now 6-time squadron commander, I can't wrap my head around the officers ignoring a parent like that.

I will also caution that whenever there are changes to the regulations or processes, saying that the commanders "definitely" know about the change is assuming a lot.  There are over 1000 units in CAP, and I guarantee that there are units out there that haven't cracked the CP manual in *years* and just operate off "the way we always do it."  I've seen this so many times over the years that it would not surprise me in the least if the unit's CP leadership didn't have any earthly idea that 52-16 is replaced by 60-1 and that the PT test is changing. 

Those of us who have been around awhile know of that one unit in their wing that falls into this category.  They never show up to wing events, they're notably absent in things like TLC, SLS, CLC, conferences.. and their cadets almost never show up to wing activities...

[TX CAP Mom]

First let me say, I regret posting my frustration last night, late, after a frustrating PT meeting where the boy gets in the car and is telling me things that don't line up with the information I thought I knew. Our Squadron is wonderful and amazing. I am very grateful for the time and energy the seniors put into the cadet program and grateful that a program like CAP exists for my boy who is not into sports or scouts and the like. He found "his thing" with CAP. I am also very very grateful that PT is required. It is a HUGE motivator for him to work on fitness goals that can't be achieved via Minecraft! 

So thank you all for your informative responses! I think I see where the miscommunication came from! Partly yes, I wish there was a bit more communication with the parents, but at the same time, I am no helicopter mom and do want to encourage my son to speak with his leadership and get answers himself. He's shy and only 13, so he's still learning how to do this. Effective communication is a skill that needs to be learned.

The New Cadet Guide we were shipped upon joining is dated April 2017 and is what looks like the "new" guide. It matches the link posted below as the new standards. I just wasn't aware that there were older numbers that they were going off of, and was also confused as to the attempt vs attain wording. For a while the poor kid wasn't even close, especially on the mile run, so it didn't matter what the number was, we just kept trying and trying. It was when I thought we were this close that I would hear nope, still pretty far off.

To be fair, the person in leadership responding to me likely had NO IDEA what I was looking at, or just wasn't clear in explaining. I absolutely agree they deserve the benefit of the doubt. She and I communicate differently too - me with lots of words and she with very few.  She probably figured she was perfectly clear. I absolutely should have just approached after a meeting when she was free to get clarification on the issue.

Cadetter, thank you for posting the pic below of the old chart. That helped me see that I was asking them about apples and they were working on oranges!! I said I regret venting my frustration but I don't regret posting this question. I feel so much better having this clarification and I appreciate that you all were gracious in your response.

The standards they gave you are correct per the old Cadet Super Chart that is permissible through the end of this month. My squadron is only switching to the new program starting February (the latest that squadrons can switch is February). Under the old program, he needs to pass mile run plus 2 of the other 3 activities. (Ignore Shuttle Run.) Assuming your squadron is also waiting until 1 Feb to use the new program, he would have needed to attain (not attempt) these standards. For the old program, look under Phase 1, for a 13-yo male:



Also, 8 on the new sit and reach means he can touch his toes while following the new standards.

Old CPFT: https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P052_018_501C183A14D19.pdf
Old Super Chart: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Super_Chart__2011_low__Copy_8371994AD16FE.pdf
New CPFT: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/5218_Draft_1_CB0D0A83CB4A2.pdf
New Super Chart: https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Super_Chart__2017_letter__combined_17CB4F9432F4D.pdf

BTW, I'm not excusing your squadron's terrible communication. His CoC should be able to answer what his PT requirements are easily (especially if you're using the old program still), and his commander definitely knows that the new one (requiring attempt, instead of attain) is mandatory starting 1 Feb.

[TheSkyHornet]

Hey, Mom,

While I have to agree with Nin's statement about not ignoring parents, I think it would be beneficial for all parties, particularly your cadet, to sit down together and look the information up. I see you mentioned that he's only 13. They're not only any age. Every person develops at a different rate. Some 13-year-olds are very independent, some not. The point of this program is to break them out of that mold and get them to become self-sustaining as they rank up as well as age in their teenage years.

This is a perfect age to perhaps sit down with your cadet at home the next time something like this comes up and see if he can look this information up somewhere online (particularly on the CAP website). If not, make sure he asks his chain of command. Then, if he doesn't get an answer, encourage him to go up the chain as necessary. If he still isn't getting answers---and let's try to expect a reasonable timeline here (2 days is not reasonable)---then maybe address it.

As a CDC, I really don't like parents coming up to me. Obviously, they will if they so choose, and I'll try to point them in the right direction. The issue I have is that it's always on-the-spot, and often something that isn't as easy to explain in 30 seconds, not to mention the fact that I'll be asked "Where can they find this...can you show me?" and I don't have a computer sitting in front of me. It's not easy to explain sometimes. It's way more productive for mom to say she has a question on behalf of her son, and for me to ask her to send him over to me and I'll answer his question---he's the one that needs to know; it's his promotion and his testing. Before anyone flips out reading this and thinks "How dare you!" I don't turn away parents; I encourage them to have their cadets try and problem solve. I'll answer what needs to be answered, but I can't always give every answer (I may not know at that time, or I may not think it's in the cadet's interest to have mom figure it out for him). To be clear, nobody should be dissing or ignoring parents.

As a final word: Don't ever regret asking a question, and if you especially ask the right people, you should hopefully get the right answer (even if it isn't always the answer you wanted to hear).

[TX CAP Mom]

Point taken SkyHornet.