USAF Logistics and Communications Audit **Please Help**

[c172drv]

We have been volunteered, by wing, to be audited by Region's USAF folks for the Logistics and Communications Audit.  We have most stuff accounted for but I have questions about whether they will go with the spirit of things or the letter of the law.  I'm also wondering if other wings use the CAPF 37A & 37V forms when transferring AC and Vans between squadrons.   I don't have either and they don't show on my inventory at NHQ.  While it might be amusing to see their response when I tell them we have no AC or van assigned to the squadron after they walked past it I don't think they would be amused for long.  Looking for input and suggestions since I have a little over a week to prepare now.

Thanks,
John

[mikeylikey]

Ummm.......I don't want to come off as a jerk, but ya, use the forms you mentioned.  When you get/got/transfered a vehicle you need the 37v.  Wing might be doing the transferring, but you need a copy of it for inspections like the one upcoming.  Expect the letter of the law from CAP-USAF!  They will tear you apart, to prove issues.  Don't forget the corporate property stickers on the comm equipment.  The numbers on the stickers better match up with what you have on file.  If you have any equipment that "can't be accounted for" on file, but is present in your building, use "FOB" for found on base.  Don't need an explanation of where it came from, but you need some sort of identifier.  Also, expect them to want to see the paper copies of all files, not the one's saved on your laptop.  Although we are in the technology/paperless age, don't bet on it!  Hope something here helps!

[c172drv]

Kind of what I expected.  Like I said I can show documentation from NHQ that we don't have stuff assigned to us so it won't really get me too much but it will sure burn wing.  Got that on the rest of it.  I don't know that I'll be able to secure the tags that quickly but I'll print stuff up to fend the off for now.

Thanks,
John

[Eclipse]

use "FOB" for found on base. 

DO NOT USE "FOB" if it wasn't.

Turning anything into FOB means it has to be treated the same as property purchased by the DOD/USAF and has to be disposed of through DRMO.  Read the regs if you don't believe me.

You're better sticking a "property of Joe Member" label on it than going FOB with stuff that has no history.

We just went through this and it's a nightmare.

My advice on this is to bring in your Wing Logistics Officer now, and have them help you prepare, rather than risk surprises, etc.  If this is part of the Wing CI, its their neck if you have issues.

[RiverAux]

Ask you wing logistics folks.  I know that in some wings it isn't uncommon to keep the vans and aircraft officially assigned at Wing even though they are under the control of the unit.  

[Eclipse]

Ask you wing logistics folks.  I know that in some wings it isn't uncommon to keep the vans and aircraft officially assigned at Wing even though they are under the control of the unit. 

Absolutely - we have an aircraft at the airport, but it is a wing asset and has a wing POC. 

Not in anyway connected from a paperwork standpoint to the unit (thank the Good Lord).

[IceNine]

in the same vein, with the 37's. 

The "setup: I have just taken over Comm's at unit level.  we have 14 corporate radios (9 ISR, I know better than shouting), 3 EFJ Mobiles, 2 EFJ Portables.

I have 37's for all radios from wing to squadron, squadron to individual.  Do I need to get 37's from group?  And, if for instance one of these radios is transfered to a different unit (group for example) do I need to keep the 37's? 

And if we back up a couple threads, we have 2 of the old school L-Per's that I am told were bought with squadron funds like 20 years ago.  I have no documentation is there a way to correct this issue or do I just pretend that Joe Member bought it and call it a day.  And just FYI we are year and half away from our next SUI.

[PWK-GT]

My experiences in a nutshell:
1) When in doubt, keep a 37 on everything...from Wing, Group, etc. Always looks good to be overpapered on these things.

2) Keep all 37's on transferred items. I have been told by the Wing LG that we are actually required to keep old paper at least 5 years after the items leave our hands. Simple provability. I am working on putting together a 'dead' 6-part LG file as we speak.

3) On the L'Pers-- contact Group to see if they have a copy of the 37 showing their input as 'squadron funded'. If not, then simply start a new 37E for them, showing the current date and staff signature-- listing them as squadron funded.If they are not in the system now, then they fell thru the cracks earlier, but should be on your unit report. They will again be in the system, and will show on your next Property Report. If you plan on getting rid of them, you still need to input them first, so you can effectively transfer them back to Wing for disposal.

4) I have met our new CAP-RAP, who I hear has a background in LG. He stated that he plans on visiting all ILWG units shortly--and regularly. SUI or not, what do you think he's gonna want to see first?

5) Tell 2d Lt Mucha I said 'howdy'! I'm an old bud.......and why he joined you guys.

Hope this helps!

[c172drv]

Thanks for everyone's input.  I've been reviewing over the different manuals and trying to gleam how this will go down.  My wing LG hasn't proven to be very helpful with knowledge so I came here.  I guess I'm going to rattle a few cages up the line to see what is what and dig down to the bottom of this.

I have a second question.  Communications equipment and stuff like L-Pers, are they tracked in CEMS, Communications Equipment Management System?  If they are would the not show up on my equipment listing?

Thanks again for everyone's input.

John

[Hartley]

Hi John,

YES!  - All of your comm equipment, including things like L-Pers and Pointer beacons should be on the S-8, or "CEAR" (Comm Equipment Accountability Record) .  If you don't have access to CEMS or a copy of your current CEAR, then you need to contact your Wing DC immediately.

  In theory, your unit should receive a copy of the current CEAR every year before 15 April, which either your Comm Officer or CC have to sign and return a copy to the DC - but that doesn't mean it actually happened.

  Any questions about Comm logistics should be covered in CAPR 100-2

Hartley

[c172drv]

Thanks Hartley,
    Things are complicated by the fact that my Squadron CC is at Region Staff College and has no real communications access.  I'm working on getting the report now from Wing so I can verify that.  I wish they would simplify this stuff and keep it all on one listing and then make some sub-list for special purposes.  I would find that much easier to manage.

John

[badger bob]

Another Tip

If you use a 501c3 "booster" club or any other friend of CAP that is allowing you to use equipment not given to CAP make sure it is documented. If the "friends of our local CAP squadron" is legitimate have a loan letter from them saying that the equipment  desk top computer--    Make Dell --- Model Optiplex GX1---SN xxxxxx is on loan to your CAP squadron and should be returned to  "friends of our local CAP squadron" when no longer needed.

If Major Joe Goodguy wants your squadron to use his digital camera and he leaves it at the squadron- have him write a letter donating the use but not the property.

If in fact any of those people intend to donate property to CAP, you might ask them to keep the property until after your audit when you can go thru paperwork with your wing supply officer.

If I can be of help, give me a buzz.

[arajca]

Any non-CAP property that is left at the unit needs to be marked with the owner's name as well.

I just went through this last night. AF guy got the call to conduct it at 1:00pm, called my cc at 1:15pm, who called me. The checklist they are using is dated May 2007. Fortunetely, the Lt Col was understanding about the time crunch since we had our huge awards night scheduled for last night (AFA, VFW, AFSA, a bunch of promotions, RSR, etc) and we wouldn't be able to do the inspection until late in the meeting.

We passed.

[c172drv]

Thanks for some of those ideas.  I've been going through the checklist since they provided me one.  I have found errors with the checklist that reference things that don't exist.  I'm geting most of the stuff accounted for and I will have it documented I believe except that we have a donated computer that we don't know who gave it.  I'm trying to figure out how to get it into CATS quickly and get the number affixed.  I don't mind dealing with the stuff once it is running it is just the headache of the startup.  The biggest issue is the wing.  They have halfway implemented the concept of wing holds everything like vans and AC.  They "transferred" a van to us but not in CATS or on paper.  I looked it up and it is still at an old squadron.  The AC we have is assigned to them.  The 37A in the folder on the AC isn't up to date with SN of equipment or a signature.  The AC we had back when I joined in 93 was just removed of our listing yesterday because it is being retired. 

It is a big pain really because wing won't respond to me.  I feel like saying yes, I know there is an aircraft there outside the door but I don't know who's it is because I have no paperwork and the AC has none telling me who it is assigned to.  And yes, there is a van outside but it isn't mine.  I don't have one.  Here look at this listing.  It shows we have no AC or Vans.

OK, finished venting.  I've actually sent a request to the Group CC to help out since my Squadron CC is out and I'm the point guy for this fun. 

Once again thanks for everyone's input.  I've found the different ideas and opinions to be very helpful.

John

[badger bob]

Your web security administrator can enable permissions in CATS.

If your wing keeps aircraft and vehicles on the 001 inventory that suffices for CATS paperwork, but you should still have a vehicle file and a aircraft file for assets under your care. Use the vehicle and aircraft inspections sheets as a guide for what you need.

If your wing Logistics or you group commander are non-responsive I would be prepared to document unanswered requests. An inspection team can write up a finding of non-compliance for group- wing- region- or national if there is a issue that should be rectified.

Adding equipment is possible with local level permissions. Deleting equipment or correcting serial numbers may need national level permissions

[Hartley]

Hi John,

  It sounds like your Wing folks have some large problems, and you are to be commended for your efforts in straightening it all out..
  One thing - if you have something (aircraft, van, radio, computer, etc.) that is for sure CAP property, but doesn't appear to be assigned to you, DON'T create a new entry in CATS or CEMS for it, as having something in the system twice will just make things worse.  If you can find out what it's status is, feel free to share this with the inspector ("this van is assigned to Sq XX, we are working to have it properly transferred to us") but don't try to create a new record.  If it's a complete unknown, my experience has been that it is better to be completely honest with the inspector than to try to create records to "cover it" - remember that the inspectors have complete access to CAP's systems - CATS & CEMS - and trying to BS them will just create problems you don't need or want.  In fact, the inspector may be able to help you resolve your problems if your Wing folks aren't being helpful.
  Chris' advice about affixing "personal property labels" to equipment that is not clearly CAP-owned is VERY GOOD ADVICE - as long as the item in question really isn't in the system.  We did that for almost every computer "accessory" item (network components, non-oem mice & keyboards, speakers, etc.) and it saved a huge amount of trouble on inspections.  Just be sure it isn't listed in the S-3 or S-8 somewhere..

  The plan at HQ is to allow CATS to display both CATS and CEMS items, but apparently CATS has not progressed sufficiently to achieve this yet.  The two separate systems are a product of two things - one, the AF manages comm equipment differently than "regular stuff", and two, the Comm program identified the breakdown of the S-3 logistics system (ca. 1997-2003) as being a threat to the integrity of the Comm program, and created CEMS to put the management of the Comm assets in the hands of the Comm managers (who at least knew what all that stuff was..)

  I can add to Chris's words regarding changes - in CEMS, items can be added,  serial numbers, make, model, descriptions and barcode label numbers can be changed or added, and equipment can be re-assigned pretty much at will by your Wing-level managers (and lower, if they've enabled it) - but deletions require Wing CC involvement and should NOT be undertaken lightly! I believe CATS is similar.

  One caution - if you appear to be knowledgeable, diligent and honest, there is a very real risk you may be appointed to Wing Staff to help fix those issues..

73 DE Hartley

[c172drv]

Well, I'm pretty sure my job and lack of time will stop any attempt to get me to Wing.  Plus I'd be too likely to ask them what they were smoking.  Frustration mounts when dealing with this kind of stuff.  I've been an auditor for an airline.  I regularly did a few audits a week.  If I did an audit now with the current checklist and the conditions I have found so far I would have a field day.  I don't think that it is intentional but certainly from lack of attention.  I have to admit that I wasn't the top on the regulations involved but it hasn't taken much reading on my part to determine there are some issues and if nothing else a need to clean up the CATS entries.

Thanks for the stuff about CATS and CEMS.  Didn't plan on creating new entries except for stuff I know isn't in there.  I didn't know why we have two systems and why they don't reintergrate them I don't know.  Seems that we need to have a few professionals doing this stuff that we can call on to get answers at NHQ.  It doesn't take too many people that can explain stuff to help manage the voluteer force we have. 

John