Who knows what is happening?

[RayHayden]

To keep things private and protect those who do not need to be identified...

I got a call today from a member in another wing, who is pretty high up in the food chain, who was basically shocked to find that a lot of CAP members that they spoke to had no idea of all the "things" going on in CAP.

I suppose this is a good thing in a way, the local Units just continue on without worrying about the higher links in the food chain... however, this person also told me about some disturbing trends in their Wing - membership is down and the like... other things that are the same across CAP right now.

I have a friend of mine - active duty Air Force in yet another Wing who tells me that they speak of these "things" regularly - these wings are spread by a lot of real estate, so it brings to mind, "Who really knows about all the "things" going on in CAP regarding the "Leadership" right now?"

I moved very fast through the food chain, moving from Unit to Group in no time, but only staying on at Group for one month before being drafted to Wing HQ, I spent years there, then went to Region HQ and spent some years there too before being begged to come back to Wing and fix some problems that they had been having there since my time away. I fully understand that if there are around 60,000 members in CAP, that the staff of Wings and Region HQ's is actually a relatively small percentage of the total membership.

But in being involved with the Wing HQ of a large Wing and of a Region HQ, it all kind of seemed that everyone knew what was going on at all the meetings and what not that I attended over the years.

My thinking is in that a surprising number of CAP members really have no clue of the leadership what so ever. I also tend to think that there is some twisted "hero worship" of the leadership members ever see. It seems that the "leadership" shows up and people from small units tucked away in the US come to a function and see this mystical person who they automatically worship due to their position.

I have met a lot of folks at a lot of "political" meetings during my time in CAP. I never liked "political" things as I feel that the politics of it all takes away from what is - and should - really be about.

I feel that all members should have a stronger presence and a more meaningful say in who those they follow are. The General Membership has less than zero say so in the appointments of the leadership, and in these boards, it has been proven to me several times that very few even KNEW that it is nearly impossible to remove a sitting National CC from office - or even how it is to be done at all.

The fact is that by being blind followers with no interest in our organization, we have zero right to determine the future direction that the organization is to follow...

I feel that this is ironically far afield from what the original creators of CAP had in store for the organization once WWII settled down. I think that the leaders then would have wanted the organization to live and breathe as a fully developed organization that can truly elect and choose it's own leadership from a well informed membership base.

I think there are others that are out there - even on this board - that understand and feel the same way.

I can tell you that an informational process is taking place that will assist to truly inform CAP members of the "things" that are going on and will seek to develop a very well informed membership in the future.

You can PM me if you want to participate in that movement. The way it will happen is to seek assistance from members in other than Florida Wing and get information across CAP membership WITHOUT identifying those who are helping... other than me of course, because my name is already out there.

I had a boss that told me many years ago that it is better to be part of the solution than part of the problem. Education is the key to not only taking CAP back from the corrupt, but in making it far better than even the original members could imagine.

Best wishes for much success, always!

Ray Hayden, LtCol, CAP

[Pylon]

...the local Units just continue on without worrying about the higher links in the food chain...

Sounds like a pretty effective solution.  I can run my squadron with or without U.S. Civil Air Patrol BDU tapes, with or without roof trianges or USAF Aux on the aircraft tail, and with or without conspiracy theories.  If recruiting is down, your unit needs to lead the way.  Wing and Region are not going to do your recruiting and retention work.  If members are fed up, you need to address what they're not getting from your unit to stay happy. 

CAP lives and thrives at the operational level.  Live and let live the powers that be.  They spend their time making decisions and working on programs that nine times out of ten make no significant impact where the rubber meets the road.

[Major Carrales]

...the local Units just continue on without worrying about the higher links in the food chain...

Sounds like a pretty effective solution.  I can run my squadron with or without U.S. Civil Air Patrol BDU tapes, with or without roof trianges or USAF Aux on the aircraft tail, and with or without conspiracy theories.  If recruiting is down, your unit needs to lead the way.  Wing and Region are not going to do your recruiting and retention work.  If members are fed up, you need to address what they're not getting from your unit to stay happy. 

CAP lives and thrives at the operational level.  Live and let live the powers that be.  They spend their time making decisions and working on programs that nine times out of ten make no significant impact where the rubber meets the road.

I concur, the working of "High Level CAP" rarely cause memebers of local units to "resign in droves."  Unless it involves a major change to CAPR 60-1.

Ray...if I may sat...you moved up the ranks too fast.   You should have enjoyed Squadron and Group.

[RayHayden]

CAP lives and thrives at the operational level.  Live and let live the powers that be.  They spend their time making decisions and working on programs that nine times out of ten make no significant impact where the rubber meets the road.

Ray... if I may say... you moved up the ranks too fast.   You should have enjoyed Squadron and Group.

These are excellent points! Unfortunately, the "stuff" rolls downhill in both the good and the bad plain, let me explain briefly.

Pylon, first, years ago I found your personal website when searching for other things non cap related, I forget what now, but I liked your website and thought it was quite cool... very well done...

Units are specifically where the rubber meets the road, if there is a fun, cool unit with neat things happening, members will likely hang out and participate - true for CAP, church groups, anything really, but the Wing CC, can yank a Unit CC in a heart beat and without any reason what so ever - did anyone know that?

A local CC - an ICON in CAP was recently replaced in FLWG, this Commander is one of the few things "right" about CAP... and even with all that I KNOW, even with all that had been going on, EVEN I SIMPLY thought that this commander had simply wanted to take a break and relax for a little bit before coming back in and doing it some more... I spoke to this commander when they called me on the phone and I was shocked to find out that they had been replaced for a positioning scheme for someone "they" want to be moving up the food chain!

I was tagged to be a Unit Commander of the infamous Unit that had the sexual harassment / cadet abuse scandal occur in FLWG, though at the time, I was so new in CAP that I had no idea of what had gone on, and it was so well a secret that it was not until moths later that I ever found out about the situation! I declined that position as it was a cadet squadron and I did not want to be personally responsible for the care and well being of that many cadets... I won't call out names, but anyone who has read the Internet knows of the scandal I am talking about - it is real, and it did happen...

Here is how that works from above to interrupt the Units: the powers that be from up above decide that they need to place a person in at, oh lets say, National Vice Commander. "Wow Ray, that's off the wall, how does that effect a Unit?"

Well, If I want to take a person and make them National Vice Commander, I have to get them geared up to be able to take the job. How would I do that?

First, I'd pluck out a Unit CC and place them in that position for one year - maybe less. I would then pull out a Group Commander and replace them with this person for a year, or less if I could, then I'd pop them in as - you guessed it, a Wing Commander for about a year, or less if possible, but at this level, it would be tight. I would then pop them in as a Region Commander and they would be all set to get elected into the National Vice Commander spot when that rolled around next time... doubt that it can be done this way?

Look into the history of Col Dan Levitch, current SER Commander, don't go by his "bio" on the SER page though, it does not list the dates and positions that he held and for how long he held them... when I find those, I'll post them on a separate page I am creating with the facts of "things" along with all the emails that Pineda and He sent to me while they had been trying to toss me out - they did fail by the way.

Major Carrales, I should have enjoyed my time at the Unit.

My Unit was the Boca Raton Senior Squadron. For giggles, look at Google maps or Google Earth and zoom in on the Boca Raton airport - home of many corporate fighters and more jets seem to move in each month, but this is the vibrant and exciting Unit I joined.

A recent change before I joined CAP put a new Group Commander in "charge" of our Group... politics had been flying behind the scene and if I had known ANYTHING of what was gong on, I would have never joined CAP then.

This Group Commander and posse basically destroyed a training day, that involved at least two aircraft and many  members trying to train up, ground teams and aircrews - in fact, my flight was the ONLY flight off the ground that day, I was training to become a Scanner; that was the last time I ever flew in the CAP aircraft other than to take my Form 5 Flight ride (which I passed).

The BS was so deep, it really rocked our Unit. Several members left and never came back, one member thought that the BS was so darn deep, he simply "Retired" from CAP. I missed the retirement ceremony, but CAP lost a great asset to the program that day!

By the time the "stuff" was settling over that fiasco, I was moved to Group HQ - whose Commander got "replaced" by the new commander, who shortly after I went to Wing HQ was also "replaced".

For me, this was the key, I honestly thought that these folks had done something that was "wrong", or WHY in the WORLD would they be replaced so darned often, and so very fast???

Why? Guess who the Wing Commander was at that time and who lived in the same county as where all this was happening (Boca Raton in just over the county line and extremely close to all this "action")

That's right, TP...

How this effected me was by keeping me ignorant to what was going on. I was now at Wing HQ, doing what I did best (this is long before the "incident")... getting rid of paperwork and removing red tape. I was just as ignorant as anyone else as to why and for what reason you would ever "replace" commanders like they had been old underwear!

See, it doesn't become clear until you realize that the Group Commanders go to a bimonthly Commanders Call at Wing HQ and bump heads to decide how the Wing is going to get things done, and where the money is going to go... watch a crime show on TV... more often than not, if you "follow the money", you'll find the answer you likely never wanted to know.

If a Unit Commander is in charge of an influential Unit - some Units in Florida rival that of some Wings! - becomes a "pest" in the mind of a higher up, or if that higher up wants or "needs" to put someone in a Unit CC spot... well, you do the math... if I worked in that way, I would have done it the same way.

In reality, what I always said is, "Someone is willing to take their personal time and energy to be a Unit or Group Commander, why would you EVER want to replace them?" BECAUSE I thought that way, I blinded myself to the reality that I was witnessing at the time. And, if anyone looks at PD, it is a SUB branch of AE, meaning what? Your not in the limelight, but in the shadow of a Primary Mission, so the bright light is not on you; you likely do not have a target on your back from above either. In fact, your job is to help others progress and succeed - this helps to make the ones above look good when their Units and Groups are progressing and succeeding! You are a valuable asset to those above.

I should have been able to enjoy my time at the unit, I really should have had that opportunity and there have been many times when I had wished that things had been different and that no one ever caused problems in CAP from above. The Boca Raton Unit was filled some truly amazing Vets. They loved to fly and several had there own aircraft. All they wanted to do was fly and train and to me, that was exciting - and WHY I joined that Unit in June of 1999.

The events that followed destroyed my ability to enjoy that time - and are what made me take on the opportunities that followed. To me, had I not gone to Wing when I did, I would have never renewed my CAP membership that first year!

But if I had left, the PDW never would have been formed and a lot of other things I had a hand in changing would have never happened. A lot of folks benefited from the reduction of paperwork and red tape that I was personally responsible for, so I suppose I am happy that I had that chance too.

I also found that I could teach pretty well in front of a class, and I taught at several Wing and Region Conferences, many PDW's (we had two each year), and it was known that I would have held a Level I / CPPT for even one student - it was that important to me - especially so that they could take the SLS ASAP afterwards.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the good, and the evil both run downhill and if the "leadership" above has some ill will at hand, it is at the sole discretion of that leadership on if the passing the good down stream benefits them... if it does not make them look good, then it won't be coming your way at the Unit.

If the Units and Groups complain too loudly, well, "the squeaky wheel gets greased." - Pun fully intended.

While I remain a member of CAP, and am not assigned a specific duty position, it will be my personal goal to FULLY educate the membership to the best of my ability of the reality of their "Leadership" and what is really going on.

If you EVER have a question that is not fully answered to your satisfaction from the chain of command - there is a problem... simply know that... there IS a problem. There is never a reason to NOT get a good answer to a good question. If your chain of command is not willing or able to give you a good and reasonable answer - you either have a problem, or have become - in their eyes - a problem.

Best wishes for much success, always!

Ray Hayden, LtCol, CAP

Correcting spelling errors if I see them...

[csmusaret]

Ray;
Look at California........Gonna repay 149k of non missing money plus 16K for the audit to find that the money wasn't missing, then kick out a 35 year veteran who has multiple awards for her years of service and replace her with the Colorado DAE who lives in San Diego then change him from the interim to the full ride all in about 1 month!  Tony's toady's to the max.  Looks like even the Region guy (Easy Ernie) caved and the seven dwarfs (read all 7 Group Commanders) are dangling out there cause they all signed an official (read useless) complaint agains King Tony for violating the constitution (read useless) of CAP.  Happyness is!

[shorning]

Look at California........[snip]

"csmusaret", you need to review the Membership Code of Conduct before you start sling too much mud...

[Flying Pig]

They better not do anything to Col Pearson!  I remember him when he was the Grp 18 Commander I believe.  Anyway, I remember when he made Ca Wing Comm.  What a guy.

[csmusaret]

Your right.....shoulda been kinder, gentler and more politically correct.  Will behave in the future.  Whattya expect from a newbie++++
By the way.....I like Ernie....great guy.

[Pylon]

Your right.....shoulda been kinder, gentler and more politically correct.  Will behave in the future.  Whattya expect from a newbie++++
By the way.....I like Ernie....great guy.

And by the way, welcome to CAPTalk. 

[csmusaret]

Lots of neat stuff.  Will follow along for awhile (read "lurker") and after learning a bit more, may chime in. Thnx for the welcome.

[TJ]

Lots of neat stuff.  Will follow along for awhile (read "lurker") and after learning a bit more, may chime in. Thnx for the welcome.

Some of this stuff makes a good read.  I don't post much either, but I get a kick out of the posts and snappy tag lines - see Lt.Col White's 

[LtCol White]

 

[DNall]

I got a good one I been meaning to put on, but it'd get annoying seeing it all the time. Whatcha think:

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." -Frank Zappa

[RogueLeader]

I got a good one I been meaning to put on, but it'd get annoying seeing it all the time. Whatcha think:

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." -Frank Zappa

At least!

[BVM]

Seems like what starts out up the line tends to trickle down

[RogueLeader]

Seems like what starts out up the line tends to trickle down

Glad to see that you're catching on.
Welcome to CapTalk, Enjoy your time here.

[Smokey]

I finally added a line on my signature line.

[RogueLeader]

I finally added a line on my signature line.

It's a good one.
Here's another quote:
"You need to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out."