Encampment required before applying to NCSA?

[xray328]

Our daughter was all set to go to her first encampment in two weeks but she broke her foot tonight [emoji19]. If she gets to spring encampment before the NCSA next summer will she be ok or does the encampment have to be done before applying?

I also see a few states that have winter encampments.  So far I've found Texas, Kansas, and Florida. Anyone know if there's any other wings with winter encampments?

Thanks!

[PA Guy]

ORWG has a winter encampment.

[Spam]

I would encourage you to not give up yet.  Give your Wing's Encampment Commander a call, explaining the mishap, and see if they'll be willing to take your cadet anyways with restrictions. I have, in the past.


The key factors will be to have clear doctors orders exempting her from certain activities, to determine the degree of minimally mobility she will have, and to discuss with the staff their ability to accommodate her reduced mobility. She may not be able to do PT or run confidence courses, or even pass in review, but if she can participate in the other 80 percent of the curriculum with some assistance, that would be a win over adversity in my book.  Be prepared to discuss any restricted Schedule pain meds she needs (if any), as that might be a deal breaker if so.


ADAPT - IMPROVISE - OVERCOME!

V/R,
Spam

[lordmonar]

+1
If your daughter is mobile and the doctor says it is okay there is no reason she can't attend encampment.  She may miss out on some things but still get all the required stuff for graduation.   

[PHall]

Just about all of the NCSA's require you to be an Encampment Graduate.
If it is required then it should say so on the NCSA application website.
And yes, completing a fall encampment should meet the requirement.

[PHall]

+1
If your daughter is mobile and the doctor says it is okay there is no reason she can't attend encampment.  She may miss out on some things but still get all the required stuff for graduation.   

NO,NO,NO,NO!!!!!!!!!        Do not send a cadet with a healing broken foot to encampment!

All you will do is lengthen the healing time and cause the cadet a great amount of avoidable pain.

Why would you do that?

There is a large amount of marching and standing and PT at encampment. Those don't go well with injured feet.

[xray328]

I just thought she wouldn't be able to attend for the above mentioned reasons (pt/drill/marching). I emailed the encampment commander to explain the situation.  Her older brother will also be there so he could always help her. She extremely disappointed she can't attend so if there's anyway they can accommodate her, that'd be great.

If nothing else I'll try to get her to the Kansas Wing over Christmas break (closest).

[MSG Mac]

She is in what is called Catagory 2 Fitness Catagory (temporary disability). The encampment should be able to accommodate her, based on her mobility and MDs recommendation and approval.

[TheSkyHornet]

As LtCol McEleney said, I don't think it should be an issue if she meets the requirements of temporary disability. She definitely needs to get authorization for that, but it's doable. Many cadets go to encampment on crutches due to recent injuries prior to start date.

What you do need to be aware of is that sometimes being on crutches or in a walking boot can be just as bad as joining in on physical activities, even from the sidelines. Standing on crutches or trying to keep up can be a real nightmare, as someone who's been there. It can be very exhausting and painful depending on your travel distance (walking), even if just a few hundred yards.

If you're just looking to get her passed so she can get into the national activities, I would consider the later encampments if this seems to rough for her to participate in this early on with her condition. But as a fun factor, it's not going to be there very much with limited mobility. Just a personal standpoint.

Health and healing must come first. But there are workarounds which aren't harmful.

[xray328]

Thanks everyone. 

This letter from the California Wing clearly says she shouldn't go though and would be sent home, no exceptions...Medical #4.

http://cawgencampment.cawgcap.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/2014-Parents-Letter.pdf

[Spam]

Well, that's clear enough then, the California Wing policy is no accommodation at all for Cat II cadets. That's within their rights, of course.


Technically, Cat II status (temporarily limited) applies to the CPFT, which is linked to promotions, not attendance at activities, and of course ANY determination needs to be with the full informed advice of your physician.  See the KB answer on this at:  https://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1751/kw/temporary%20physical.  While frankly this is the first time I've looked that answer up, it dovetails with my experience in trying to find ways to accommodate people, rather than ways to cut people from the program.


I'd consider other Wings encampments in July or August, if that's within your affordability range and ability to contact/ask them. Outside that, yes, winter encampments would be your next window to recycle your cadet, and then early summer encampments before NCSAs.  To address your original point, it would be up to the NCSA whether or not to conditionally accept your applicant cadet, pending completion of a scheduled encampment. Some may do so, some (typically the high demand high cost ones) will not, which makes fair sense, of course.

Best of luck to you, and to your young lady as she heals!

V/R,
Spam

[PHall]

She is in what is called Catagory 2 Fitness Catagory (temporary disability). The encampment should be able to accommodate her, based on her mobility and MDs recommendation and approval.

Can she complete 80% of the training in Cat 2?     You have to complete 80% of the training in order to graduate.

[PHall]

Well, that's clear enough then, the California Wing policy is no accommodation at all for Cat II cadets. That's within their rights, of course.

V/R,
Spam

All CAWG applications are screened by the Encampment Health Services Officer ( A ER Nurse ).
She's been to a number of encampments and knows what the students will go through.

[abdsp51]

So if you are in CA Wg why send your kid to the Midwest when OR is closer?

[xray328]

I'm not, I'm in IL wing. Referenced CA because that's the only reference I could find regarding kids on crutches.

[abdsp51]

I'm not, I'm in IL wing. Referenced CA because that's the only reference I could find regarding kids on crutches.

Don't reference other wings stick to yours.  It'll be better for you and your cadets in the long run.

[xray328]

Can you expand on that?

I'm looking at other wings policy's because I'm considering sending her to other wings encampments, most likely Kansas at this point.

Just seems like there should be a standard policy on the issue system wide.

[abdsp51]

Can you expand on that?

I'm looking at other wings policy's because I'm considering sending her to other wings encampments, most likely Kansas at this point.

Just seems like there should be a standard policy on the issue system wide.

Not every wing does things the same.  With encampments  now there is a certain curriculum that must be followed now. If your thinking Kansas then focus here but ultimately its upto the staff to accept her.  There is always next summer as well.

[Spam]

Can you expand on that?

I'm looking at other wings policy's because I'm considering sending her to other wings encampments, most likely Kansas at this point.

Just seems like there should be a standard policy on the issue system wide.

Not every wing does things the same.  With encampments  now there is a certain curriculum that must be followed now. If your thinking Kansas then focus here but ultimately its upto the staff to accept her.  There is always next summer as well.

XRay, there is a standard policy... to evaluate any medically limited cadets on a case by case basis, against the planned activities, facilities, and staffing levels of the activity. It is called Operational Risk Management (ORM), and as abd correctly states, each Wing will therefore have different circumstances. (Hence, that's why I said its entirely within a given Wing's right to refuse temporarily limited cadets).  The Knowledgebase article does present another aspect of that policy.

Expansion on that as requested:

Facilities factor:
- Wing A has their cadets billeted in old three story military barracks with traditional "open bay" environments, with no elevators. The base has assigned the third deck for CAP's use, as the first two decks are occupied, and the galley is a long march down the street three times a day with no motor transport (real life example: this was RTC Orlando one year, they gave us only the third floors). It would be logistically very difficult to accommodate crutches, with significant opportunities for a slip/fall while negotiating those stairs.
- Wing B is billeted in an Airman/NCO Academy with quad rooms on a single story dorm, right next to the Combined Quarters and Mess. Easy access in/out.

Personnel factor: One Wing may be able to accommodate a limited mobility cadet with help from a dedicated Logistics flight of a dozen cadets to assist (mine does, and we've seen cadets graduate on crutches), but others might have a bare bones staff and the commander may decline to have his students lose focus on their training.


Concur with the others' advice: focus on your Wings policies for the long run. Recommend asking ILWG Encampment staff on their specific ability (I know they read this forum), but if they say no can do, it isn't you... it is due to the specific logistics and safety aspects of the particular situation.


Again, best of luck.
Spam

[PHall]

Can you expand on that?

I'm looking at other wings policy's because I'm considering sending her to other wings encampments, most likely Kansas at this point.

Just seems like there should be a standard policy on the issue system wide.

Not every wing does things the same.  With encampments  now there is a certain curriculum that must be followed now. If your thinking Kansas then focus here but ultimately its upto the staff to accept her.  There is always next summer as well.

XRay, there is a standard policy... to evaluate any medically limited cadets on a case by case basis, against the planned activities, facilities, and staffing levels of the activity. It is called Operational Risk Management (ORM), and as abd correctly states, each Wing will therefore have different circumstances. (Hence, that's why I said its entirely within a given Wing's right to refuse temporarily limited cadets).  The Knowledgebase article does present another aspect of that policy.

Expansion on that as requested:

Facilities factor:
- Wing A has their cadets billeted in old three story military barracks with traditional "open bay" environments, with no elevators. The base has assigned the third deck for CAP's use, as the first two decks are occupied, and the galley is a long march down the street three times a day with no motor transport (real life example: this was RTC Orlando one year, they gave us only the third floors). It would be logistically very difficult to accommodate crutches, with significant opportunities for a slip/fall while negotiating those stairs.
- Wing B is billeted in an Airman/NCO Academy with quad rooms on a single story dorm, right next to the Combined Quarters and Mess. Easy access in/out.

Personnel factor: One Wing may be able to accommodate a limited mobility cadet with help from a dedicated Logistics flight of a dozen cadets to assist (mine does, and we've seen cadets graduate on crutches), but others might have a bare bones staff and the commander may decline to have his students lose focus on their training.


Concur with the others' advice: focus on your Wings policies for the long run. Recommend asking ILWG Encampment staff on their specific ability (I know they read this forum), but if they say no can do, it isn't you... it is due to the specific logistics and safety aspects of the particular situation.


Again, best of luck.
Spam

Or do your kid a big favor and wait til she's healed before she goes to encampment.
She will have a much better time being pain free.