Hawk Mountain PT?

[cantthinkof1]

   I've always heard that HMRS has insanely demanding physical requirements.  It's ALWAYS talked about at my squadron of how fit you have to be to be a Ranger (do 50 pushups with a full 24-hour pack on, etc.)  But just how fit do you have to be to attend the school?  What is Hawk Mountain PT like?  Personal experiences encouraged!!!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Don't listed to everything you hear. These are not US Army Rangers, and I would wager to say most don't look the part either.

There's some PT, but if it ain't challenging for 40-something adults, you should be fine.

[Stonewall]

There's some PT, but if it ain't challenging for 40-something adults, you should be fine.

I'm a 40 something adult and I'll smoke that mountain like a cheap cigar.   

I've been up the Mountain, and I don't recall anyone doing any push-ups with packs on their backs.  And certainly not 50.  There will be PT, and sure, at some point maybe you'll have your 24hr gear on while doing them, but it isn't like a PT test and you absolutely won't "fail" the program if you can't do [insert exercise].

[Майор Хаткевич]

Sir, you're, by admission not your average SM physically.

[Thrashed]

Ranger 3rd class: 1 pull-up, 5 push-ups, 10 squat thrusts, and 1/2 mile in 6 minutes.
Ranger 1st class: 3 , 15, 20, 4 minutes.
Advanced ranger: 4, 15, 20, 1 mile in 8 minutes (9 for 40+ old)

Pretty easy.

[SarDragon]

Yeah, I could do that at 40. 

[cantthinkof1]

Ranger 3rd class: 1 pull-up, 5 push-ups, 10 squat thrusts, and 1/2 mile in 6 minutes.
Ranger 1st class: 3 , 15, 20, 4 minutes.
Advanced ranger: 4, 15, 20, 1 mile in 8 minutes (9 for 40+ old)

Pretty easy.

Is that really all that's required??? HAHAHA

[Thrashed]

That's the PT part, there's all the other stuff too. See the link for the testing sheet:
http://www.pawg.cap.gov/hawk_mountain

[LGM30GMCC]

I just became that much less impressed with the 'vaunted' Ranger program.

[sarmed1]

I just became that much less impressed with the 'vaunted' Ranger program.

In our society of everyone gets a trophy, you cant expect a whole lot; for shame someone might be offended that they cant be part of "the crowd" because they didnt want to work as hard or harder than the next guy......

(FYI not HMRS specific, just a general observation about how some of the things in todays CAP program seem to have gone over the years)

mk

[Eclipse]

If nothing else, you have to give them some credit for at least having a standard of some kind, though in the HMRS context,
it's only a gate towards their ratings, not CAP participation in ES.

[DJN245]

Okay first to answer cantthinkof1's question.

The PT at Hawk isn't to much to worry about, simple exercises like you should have at your squadrons, and then a run through the O.C. every day, which is much more about confidence, and following the techniques that you are shown at the beginning of the school, and then possible a short run (probably 1/2 mile, maybe 3/4 of a mile). Nothing to daunting at all. I would say that the hardest part of the school physically will be the hike, over 2-3 days while carrying your own gear. No PT is ever done with packs, not that I have ever seen.

Now for those of you who posted the PT Requirements for R1-R3, that is not what we do every day for pt. Those are simply the minimum requirements for anyone, a young cadet, or an old senior.

I just became that much less impressed with the 'vaunted' Ranger program.

I believe that it is a requirement (along with the R-2 and R-3 Hike requirements) to show that the person working towards the achievement can operate in the field with out a problem. The Ranger program is not a  PT based program, nor has anyone ever called it that, it is a SAR and Leadership program.

[Thrashed]

I've been to Hawk Mountain. I'm from California where there are real mountains. Hawk "mountain" is 1533' above sea level. A huge climb of 200'+ from the parking lot. Sorry, but there are no mountains East of Denver. 

[Eclipse]

((*ring*))

Hello?

Thrashed!  Appalachians on line 1 for you!

With that said...1500ft?  In my wing we call that a building.

[LGM30GMCC]

I didn't just mean the PT. I looked over the testing sheets. The fact that you don't hit IS-100 or IS-700 until Ranger First Class. That means that a 'fully qualified' R3 or R2 who has only focused on that is not qualified to be a GTM3. Additionally, the R3 and R2 are also missing other necessary tasks to be a GTM 3.

Unless they are otherwise qualified from outside. You can have 100 R2 and R3 rangers....and 0 GTMs.

If R3 or R2 requirements included and exceeded  GTM 3 and above then I would be more impressed. The PT is a nice standard...but it's pointless in the context that an R2 and R3 are not qualified to do even the most basic GTM work in CAP.


Essentially from what I see on those testing sheets: Hawk is above wilderness navigation, ES orientation, hiking, and some type of HAA leadership, but not really well focused on the ES training outlined in the NESCP.

[DJN245]

I didn't just mean the PT. I looked over the testing sheets. The fact that you don't hit IS-100 or IS-700 until Ranger First Class. That means that a 'fully qualified' R3 or R2 who has only focused on that is not qualified to be a GTM3. Additionally, the R3 and R2 are also missing other necessary tasks to be a GTM 3.

Unless they are otherwise qualified from outside. You can have 100 R2 and R3 rangers....and 0 GTMs.

If R3 or R2 requirements included and exceeded  GTM 3 and above then I would be more impressed. The PT is a nice standard...but it's pointless in the context that an R2 and R3 are not qualified to do even the most basic GTM work in CAP.


Essentially from what I see on those testing sheets: Hawk is above wilderness navigation, ES orientation, hiking, and some type of HAA leadership, but not really well focused on the ES training outlined in the NESCP.

I know it doesn't mean much at this moment, but, in the near future  the testing sheets will be changing, in that a prerequisite to earning  R-3 will be GTM3, and to earn R-2 you need to be GTM2, and so forth. The ranger grade will be an augment to your GTM grade.  I expect the change within the next year.

[spaatzmom]

I've been to Hawk Mountain. I'm from California where there are real mountains. Hawk "mountain" is 1533' above sea level. A huge climb of 200'+ from the parking lot. Sorry, but there are no mountains East of Denver. 

Wait. Mt Rushmore, the Badlands, Great Smokies, Blue Ridge, Adirondack,  Berkshires, White, and Mt. Washington aren't mountains?  Well Rand McNally really has some explaining to do along with numerous textbooks.

[Thrashed]

Just putting Mt. infront of a word doesn't make it a real mountain. Besides, didn't you notice the " " after my post?

I loved the people with the bumper sticker, "this car climbed Mt. Washington". Come on! If a car can drive up it, its not a mountain. Again, its all perspective. I climbed Mt. Shasta at 14,200' and that's not considered a very high mountain for climbers. It's actually considered an easy climb.

Hawk: 1533'
Rushmore: 5725'
Washington: 6288'

Hood: 11,250'
Rainier: 14,409'
Whitney: 14,505'
McKinley: 20,328'

Everest: 29,029'

From my perspective the mountains of the east are speed bumps compared to my native west. I'd call them "hills".

[Майор Хаткевич]

I grew up in a country that was just slightly higher above the sea than Netherlands. I now live in the midwest, where garbage dump "hills" are the tallest all around.

[a2capt]

..and on the right, we're passing Mt. Trashmore..

[ol'fido]

((*ring*))

Hello?

Thrashed!  Appalachians on line 1 for you!

With that said...1500ft?  In my wing we call that a building.

BITD, we used to get a pretty regular diet of pilots from  Chicago who thought Southern Illinois was as flat as central or northern Illinois smacking into the sides of "hills". Less of that these days with modern nav equipment.

[Eclipse]

((*ring*))

Hello?

Thrashed!  Appalachians on line 1 for you!

With that said...1500ft?  In my wing we call that a building.

BITD, we used to get a pretty regular diet of pilots from  Chicago who thought Southern Illinois was as flat as central or northern Illinois smacking into the sides of "hills". Less of that these days with modern nav equipment.

One advantage of living in proximity to the tallest building in the world US is you don't need NAV equipment.  You just look for the big pointy thing.
Left is dry, right is wet. 

If you can't see the lake or the building, you risk flying near places the Good Lord did not intend for people to live, turn around and head
back towards civilization!

[cantthinkof1]

I love how I asked about the PT and now there's an argument about what is considered a "mountain". Oh poor CAPtalk....

[Stonewall]

I love how I asked about the PT and now there's an argument about what is considered a "mountain". Oh poor CAPtalk....

Meh, that's typical.  As for the PT, I don't think there's an attrition to HMRS, i.e. people getting weeded out due to one reason or another, but people probably do quit because it's either hard, or they get homesick.  But that's typical of any CAP activity, to include encampment.

For some, Hawk Mountain may be more challenging than to others.  Either way, thousands have successfully completed the course before you, and thousands will finish it after you.  It never hurts to PT, regardless of upcoming activities.

[Thrashed]

Pt question was handled. The discussion (no argument) evolved. Remember Hawk "Mountain"? It's almost like this is a public forum in a free country. 

[davidsinn]

If you can't see the lake or the building, you risk flying near places the Good Lord did not intend for people to live, turn around and head
back towards civilization!

I would not consider anything in the same county as that building to be civilization...

[Майор Хаткевич]

If you can't see the lake or the building, you risk flying near places the Good Lord did not intend for people to live, turn around and head
back towards civilization!

I would not consider anything in the same county as that building to be civilization...

Says the man from Cornhuskland.  :angel:

[ol'fido]

Down here,if you see a kid playing a banjo on a bridge, TURN AROUND!

[davidsinn]

If you can't see the lake or the building, you risk flying near places the Good Lord did not intend for people to live, turn around and head
back towards civilization!

I would not consider anything in the same county as that building to be civilization...

Says the man from Cornhuskland.  :angel:

There hasn't been a murder in my county in at least 10 years. Cook county hasn't had a murder for what, 10 whole minutes?

[SarDragon]

If a car can drive up it, its not a mountain.

According to that, Pike's Peak (14,115') doesn't count either! 

[DJN245]

If a car can drive up it, its not a mountain.

According to that, Pike's Peak (14,115') doesn't count either! 

Haha only on captalk, good point btw sardragon

[cantthinkof1]

Textbook definition on what qualifies something as a mountain: "A large landform that stretches above the surrounding land in a limited area usually in the form of a peak."   

[Thrashed]

If a car can drive up it, its not a mountain.

According to that, Pike's Peak (14,115') doesn't count either! 

Yea, I left that one out on purpose. It's really only a 5-6,000' climb since the state itself if higher than most mountains in the east.

[SarDragon]

Colorado

Mean elevation - 6800'
Lowest point - 3317'
Elevation span - 11,123'
Highest point -  14,440'

Its lowest point is higher than the highest point of 18 states, the highest of which is Pennsylvania, at 3213'.

Take that, Hawk Mountain! 

[LGM30GMCC]

You definitely feel it too. Running in Cheyenne at 6000'+ hurts. A lot.

[Stonewall]

In Afghanistan I was just above 5,000' for about 7 months and kept a log of my PT.  I ran more than 500 miles in that time, and when I returned to sea level, I ran like the wind.  Less than a month after my return I ran the annual Beach Race that I've been running for years and knocked off 2 minutes from my time.  5 miles (on the sand) in 38:40.

Sure felt good, but by the next year I was back to just over 40 minutes, I felt like a slug.  Although the tides and winds weren't helping, so the sand was softer and the wind was blowing pretty hard.  I'm hoping that had something to do with it.  We'll see this year.

[Sapper168]

..and on the right, we're passing Mt. Trashmore..

:clap: :clap: :clap:  Been there done that...too many times...

[Nathan]

Why did I just read this entire thread?

[SarDragon]

Why did I just read this entire thread?

Glutton for punishment?

Too much to drink?

[cantthinkof1]

I was not selected to attend Hawk Mountain Ranger School for 2013.  ); 

Oh well, there's always next year.

[SARDOC]

..and on the right, we're passing Mt. Trashmore..

:clap: :clap: :clap:  Been there done that...too many times...

Agreed...Having worked many a Fourth of July event when I worked EMS there, I have ridden and traveled that entire park more times then I can count.

[Sapper168]

I was not selected to attend Hawk Mountain Ranger School for 2013.  ); 

Oh well, there's always next year.

Wait how do you know you weren't selected?  According to the 'activity status' section under the 'registration and payment' tab it says "All approved applications are listed as "Alternate" until the initial slotting takes place in March." 

It isn't march yet. 

[SarDragon]

That stands for: Read The Furnished Materials

[cantthinkof1]

I was not selected to attend Hawk Mountain Ranger School for 2013.  ); 

Oh well, there's always next year.

Wait how do you know you weren't selected?  According to the 'activity status' section under the 'registration and payment' tab it says "All approved applications are listed as "Alternate" until the initial slotting takes place in March." 

It isn't march yet. 

My wing commander sent out an email listing the names of cadets that were selected.  I was confused at first too but I guess NJ Wing just finished slotting their cadets earlier??

[Huey Driver]

I was not selected to attend Hawk Mountain Ranger School for 2013.  ); 

Oh well, there's always next year.

Wait how do you know you weren't selected?  According to the 'activity status' section under the 'registration and payment' tab it says "All approved applications are listed as "Alternate" until the initial slotting takes place in March." 

It isn't march yet. 

My wing commander sent out an email listing the names of cadets that were selected.  I was confused at first too but I guess NJ Wing just finished slotting their cadets earlier??

HMRS is an NCSA. You weren't at the NCSA review boards. Also, are you sure you completed the online module? Was your application sent to wing? We didn't have it there either.

Also, Wings don't slot cadets. They sort them into three categories; Green Lighted, Approved, and Not Approved.

Lastly, all Wings must process their applications by 16 Feb.

More info: http://ncsas.com/instructions/?understanding_the_slotting_process&show=entry&blogID=89

[cantthinkof1]

I was not selected to attend Hawk Mountain Ranger School for 2013.  ); 

Oh well, there's always next year.

Wait how do you know you weren't selected?  According to the 'activity status' section under the 'registration and payment' tab it says "All approved applications are listed as "Alternate" until the initial slotting takes place in March." 

It isn't march yet. 

My wing commander sent out an email listing the names of cadets that were selected.  I was confused at first too but I guess NJ Wing just finished slotting their cadets earlier??

HMRS is an NCSA. You weren't at the NCSA review boards. Also, are you sure you completed the online module? Was your application sent to wing? We didn't have it there either.

Also, Wings don't slot cadets. They sort them into three categories; Green Lighted, Approved, and Not Approved.

Lastly, all Wings must process their applications by 16 Feb.

More info: http://ncsas.com/instructions/?understanding_the_slotting_process&show=entry&blogID=89

I was at the NCSA review boards on the 26th at McGuire.  Yes I did complete the online module and my application was sent to wing.  I received an email through DragonNet and my name was not on the list so I assume I was not selected.

[Sapper168]

I was at the NCSA review boards on the 26th at McGuire.  Yes I did complete the online module and my application was sent to wing.  I received an email through DragonNet and my name was not on the list so I assume I was not selected.

What the heck is DragonNet? 

Ah i see the NCSA review board you are talking about was your at your wing level, not the actual national level.  Sounds like You weren't green lighted by your wing.

[cantthinkof1]

I wasn't green lighted by my wing.

[Huey Driver]

Okay we're pretty off topic now. But anyway, I don't know why you wouldn't show up as neither green lighted, approved, or disapproved. That would be a question for Lt. Col. Sperry. Not too late until 2359 tomorrow.

DragonNet is NJWG's Google Apps account for email, calendar, site hosting, drive, etc.

[cantthinkof1]

I was told that since I only applied for Hawk Mountain, it automatically gets approved since they take most people that apply.

[sarmed1]

HMRS has many (many) more slots than most other NCSA, however you still must follow your wings procedures in most cases to attend (many people, even sometimes returning students nad sometimes staff member still must go thru their wings NCSA selection process)

Ulitmately you need the Wing CC signature on your CAP 31 to apply.

mk

[a2capt]

I was told that since I only applied for Hawk Mountain, it automatically gets approved since they take most people that apply.

Automatic and Most don't work in the same sentence here.  "I was told" is famous for many steller incidents of misleading people.. Read the steps, for yourself. Follow them carefully. This is excellent advice that works from your first stripe, to the last diamond.

[cantthinkof1]

I was told that since I only applied for Hawk Mountain, it automatically gets approved since they take most people that apply.

Automatic and Most don't work in the same sentence here.  "I was told" is famous for many steller incidents of misleading people.. Read the steps, for yourself. Follow them carefully. This is excellent advice that works from your first stripe, to the last diamond.

Nope.  Stated it word for word (other than, "I was told...") in the first person 

[redstar1110]

always believe you can do it and the staff will make sure you you are not put into danger plus you are surrounded by a lot of medics and Doctors, there is a lot of yelling and motivation, its fun and encouraging you will have fun.