Is the Hock Store really done?

[Pumbaa]

Wow!  So the over priced shipping is what is kicked back to CAP!?!?!?!

Amazing concept...

14 more days....

[lordmonar]

What about the AF providing a facility on a base, with CAP being a tenant?  I don't know all the details, and there are issues, but both Squadrons here on Nellis use base facilities.  There's got to be a base (especially out West where we need this) that has downsized a bit and has available buildings.  Sure there will be maintenance, but the maintenance required would be negligible in the grand scheme of the facility.  Maybe a joint AF/CAP use facility.  There's got to be a way to make something like that work.  Given that we are Congressionaly mandated to be here as the Air Force Auxiliary, I don't see why this couldn't be a road taken.

uni

That works until the USAF needs your realestate for some new ramp space.  You are promised office space just as soon as CE's new building is built and we can move these guys over there.......but wait.....those guys don't want to move.....screw that you've jammed 5 large rooms worth of files, into three ex-medical exam rooms....and the CE guys are glaring at you for asking every week "when you going to move".

Realestate on base is a cut throat, back stabbing, knife fight...

[Pylon]

The thread de-rail about encampments has been split from "Is the Hock Store really done?" thread, and has been moved to Encampments & NCSAs.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10157.0

[RADIOMAN015]

Getting back on topic
I noted that Tom's "The Hock Shop" is only permitted to initially state on his web page about "Civil Air Patrol's" injunction order.  He had to remove all other reference to CAP, which is kind of silly (especially the history about The Hock).   Regardless of what CAP Inc thinks the membership is going to continue to buy from The Hock Shop, especially those of us in the Northeast  because prices are reasonable, and service is considerably better than CAP's selected contractor

Now as far as Vanguard's service, we have one cadet member that is over the two week mark waiting for the CAP & name tape for the BDU's.   We only recently found this out, and we have a local source that does the tapes in two days BUT there is a minimum quantity order. 

So perhaps we are stuck buying specific CAP patches & insignias from Vanguard (and hopefully they will be able to ship within two days of the order, not 1 or 2 weeks -- that's unacceptable!!) BUT all of the wearables will still be able to be purchased from "The Hock Shop"
RM   

[Майор Хаткевич]

Why get cheap BDU crap from Hock?

At least with BDU.com I know I'm not getting knock-offs.

[indygreg]

I just bought some ribbons from Vanguard, to replace some that I got from Hock, so later ones would match, and I have to admit that the Vanguard ones look nicer than the ones from Hock.  The colors are much brighter. Of course it took over a week to get them, and Hock would have had them in a couple of days.

[kd8gua]

You could technically go around the CAP licensing rule in regards to ordering nametapes from The Hock. Order two different sets of customized nametapes. There is no rule that say you can't put whatever you want on the nametapes. If you wanted obscenities, I suppose The Hock could make a nametape with various obscenities on it. Anyway, order two sets, one with the last name of yourself or any CAP members you may be ordering for, and the other with the last name of Civil Air Patrol. They aren't exactly marketing these for sale, they are merely just embroidering what you wanted.

I don't know if it legally that easy however...

[Hoorah]

I would say they are in my oppinion.

[lordmonar]

You could technically go around the CAP licensing rule in regards to ordering nametapes from The Hock. Order two different sets of customized nametapes. There is no rule that say you can't put whatever you want on the nametapes. If you wanted obscenities, I suppose The Hock could make a nametape with various obscenities on it. Anyway, order two sets, one with the last name of yourself or any CAP members you may be ordering for, and the other with the last name of Civil Air Patrol. They aren't exactly marketing these for sale, they are merely just embroidering what you wanted.

I don't know if it legally that easy however...

I don't think the judge would agree with you.

Especially when you start off with "you can technically go around...."

[kd8gua]

True, that's why I wasn't sure. It just doesn't make sense that I could go to any personalized name tape place, and get any combination of colors, and any word, phrase, or whatnot, except for three words: Civil Air Patrol. These websites aren't marketing these items as official CAP items, it's merely just an ultramarine blue tape with white lettering. I suppose Vanguard should have CAP send C&D letters to any name tape place that sells customized ultramarine blue on white name tapes because there is the opportunity that CAP's name could be placed on customized name tapes, and suddenly the Vanguard-opoly is once again underminded.

[Slim]

True, that's why I wasn't sure. It just doesn't make sense that I could go to any personalized name tape place, and get any combination of colors, and any word, phrase, or whatnot, except for three words: Civil Air Patrol. These websites aren't marketing these items as official CAP items, it's merely just an ultramarine blue tape with white lettering. I suppose Vanguard should have CAP send C&D letters to any name tape place that sells customized ultramarine blue on white name tapes because there is the opportunity that CAP's name could be placed on customized name tapes, and suddenly the Vanguard-opoly is once again underminded.

Please don't give them any ideas.  The underground sources for quality products are rapidly drying up as it is.

[Angus]

True, that's why I wasn't sure. It just doesn't make sense that I could go to any personalized name tape place, and get any combination of colors, and any word, phrase, or whatnot, except for three words: Civil Air Patrol. These websites aren't marketing these items as official CAP items, it's merely just an ultramarine blue tape with white lettering. I suppose Vanguard should have CAP send C&D letters to any name tape place that sells customized ultramarine blue on white name tapes because there is the opportunity that CAP's name could be placed on customized name tapes, and suddenly the Vanguard-opoly is once again underminded.

Please don't give them any ideas.  The underground sources for quality products are rapidly drying up as it is.

They pretty much have already done that.  I tried doing just that before and the store said they couldn't do it.  Heck it wasn't even ultramarine blue.  I was doing a pricing before one of the recent national boards when they disscussed a *gasp* uniform change.  This was the dark blue tape fiasco. I figured Vangaurd wouldn't have them out too quickly and wanted to make the change ASAP if it had gone through.  I was told those three little words couldn't go anything if they were done in conjunction with one another.

[Seabee219]

Wow!  So the over priced shipping is what is kicked back to CAP!?!?!?!

Amazing concept...

14 more days....

Yes I agree with this....Vanguard was to have said that everytime a CAP member buys from us you get a certain % of the bill.  So what do they do so they do not loose money, they charge the CAP member more in shipping to cover that cost so Vanguard can make every penny. (that is what I heard, not sure if it is 100% true) 

  So, what do we do

[Cecil DP]

Wow!  So the over priced shipping is what is kicked back to CAP!?!?!?!

Amazing concept...

14 more days....

Yes I agree with this....Vanguard was to have said that everytime a CAP member buys from us you get a certain % of the bill.  So what do they do so they do not loose money, they charge the CAP member more in shipping to cover that cost so Vanguard can make every penny. (that is what I heard, not sure if it is 100% true) 

  So, what do we do

I was under the impression that VG had corrected the shipping variance to match what they charge other customers, but if they haven't register as a member of one of the other service gateways and than order CAP equipment.

[Seabee219]

I was not sure if that was corrected or not. Thank you for the info. I have never ordered from them yet, as I am going to try not to unless I HAVE to.   

[Hoorah]

I was not sure if that was corrected or not. Thank you for the info. I have never ordered from them yet, as I am going to try not to unless I HAVE to.   

I have slow shipping last time i used them.

[SarDragon]

My shipping was free the last two times I ordered from Vanguard.

I mailed in the order form on the first one, with shipping added, but a price change upped the pre-shipping cost to within a dollar of what I sent them. So it was essentially free shipping, since they never billed me for the extra money.

On the second one, I never even put the shipping on, and they didn't bill me that time either. Both orders were >$100, so that might have made a difference.

Also, one order, before those two, ended up coming in three different shipments, due to back orders. What they spent was over three times what I paid for shipping.

[vmstan]

I just ordered about $20 worth of odds and ends from them, and I guess they decided since it took longer than expected to put together the order they'd ship it next day air. Fine by me.

[ltcmark]

I have always felt that CAP is missing the boat on licensing all the logo's and trademarks that CAP has.  If they signed a 100% exclusive agreement with Vanguard on all CAP branded items, then someone made a very bad business decision.  Vanguard cannot produce or sell every item that someone has figured out to put a name on.  CAP should have taken a lesson from the NFL or NASCAR on how to market a brand.  The NFL and NASCAR make an absolute fortune on their licensed items.  You will notice that they do not have a sole source on any of their items.  Companies have to send in samples for approval and then they are given permission to sell the item after the legal paperwork is done.

I have a friend who makes different advertising items for Disney, Coke, NFL, NBA and NASCAR.  He said he pays from 3% to 15% royalties on the items that he sells.  Every quarter he fills out the forms and sends the various companies their share of the money.  He said that once a year someone may show up to audit his records to keep everyone honest.  If he develops a new item, he sends it in for approval and he goes with it.  All the risk is on him for making and marketing the item.

For Christmas, my son got me a laser cut Civil Air Patrol plaque.  He was so proud that he found a CAP item for dad.  I was extremely impressed with the quality of the plaque.  I looked and Vanguard does not sell these plaques, so I am sure that it is 100% black market.   :clap: 

If Vanguard will not sell an item that we as members want, then someone who wants to take a chance and make the item and then pay a royalty to sell it should be given a chance.  Everyone wins.  We as members have a wider choice of items and CAP makes money on their precious trademarks.

[kd8gua]

I don't know if this was covered elsewhere, but do the Active Duty/Reserve/SDF forces all have exclusive contracts with Vanguard for "official" products, or are there multiple vendors that can be used?